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  • Creating experienced Kindred

    Is there a guide somewhere that details on creating experienced Kindred? I'm making the character sheet for one who's a couple decades old.

  • #2
    Um, Ancient Mysteries has something on this topic, I think?
    But, i think you should just decide how "good they are" and assign them bonus experience (you can use the chart in the book to get precise amounts).

    As for me, I use a system, that with each additional dot of Blood Potency I assign the NPC a predetermined amount of additional attribute, skill, discipline, etc dots.


    My Bloodline conversions
    My House rules

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    • #3
      Ancient Mysteries was for making Elders, I thought.

      Is this for a PC?

      For a couple of decades old, I'd just take the B&S experience for an Ancilla (15?) and run with that.
      Put around half into social merits (they'd have a haven, some allies, maybe a retainer), play with the other half as you like.
      Add or reduce points as you like.

      I used a system like Griautis for Old New WoD NPCs, but with the linear experience I'm much happier thinking statting it up. a 15 xp ventrue acolyte?
      Buy a second and third animalism, a dot of cruac, then spend the rest on status and Safe Place. Most of his power is in his animal/sorcery.
      A Daeva invictus? 2 status, a couple of the invictus merits, a third majesty, some resources.

      If you wanted to, I'd make a 0xp sheet to represent their mortal/neonate self, and then add the stuff they learned/acquired in their decades.

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      • #4
        I don't know if a few decades is really "Experienced" given it's barely Ancilla territory. I'd go with one of the EXP ratings in the book (this is what they are for) and call it a day. Panther's suggestions on merits like haven, allies and retainer strike me as all being appropriate.


        I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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        • #5
          5-10 bonus experience should suffice (assuming Blood and Smoke, p. 82).

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          • #6
            Xp-to-Age scales break down fast as soon as you insert PCs anyway. Play a night-to-night game and the PCs will overtake your ancillae in some months and the Elders in just a year. Place a session only once every ten years and then perhaps they'll meet the expectations more. Considering that you have these guys running around your world, it doesn't seem worth it to bother too much with standardization. Just ask yourself "What sort of NPC is this? What's the character I want to portray? What vibe should he/she give off?" and then give them what they need to fulfil that.

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            • #7
              I agree. I've tried to advance NPCs by-the-book, and more often than not I find it unsatisfactory. I usually guestimate, giving the character enough to work for the concept, but balance based on where they fit in the range of NPCs. Also, I tend to look at what they did when they were living and what they've been doing since. A 30 year old with multiple tours will have a number of extra dots in certain abilities than would the 18 year old B student. A sire who pushes the childe hard to advance and excel will contribute more XP than one that coddles or ignores his childe.

              Lately I've just been running solo games; the character is the Sheriff. Because I don't have 4 PCs with a broad range of skill sets, I tend to be very generous with dots to keep her alive.

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              • #8
                Blood and Smoke has guidelines in the section on running generational stories Ie arcs running over the centuries.


                If you want By Night Studios to release new LARP RULES for NWoD,
                like this post.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Unahim View Post
                  Xp-to-Age scales break down fast as soon as you insert PCs anyway. Play a night-to-night game and the PCs will overtake your ancillae in some months and the Elders in just a year. Place a session only once every ten years and then perhaps they'll meet the expectations more. Considering that you have these guys running around your world, it doesn't seem worth it to bother too much with standardization. Just ask yourself "What sort of NPC is this? What's the character I want to portray? What vibe should he/she give off?" and then give them what they need to fulfil that.
                  Would ignoring experience and giving out dots in the context of the game be better?

                  Not talking about character generation, but talking about in-game character progression. Perhaps experience is dished out whenever's there's a time skip.

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                  • #10
                    I know two players in my group who'd absolutely love a system like that at least. They feel Beats make them pursue arbitrary actions rather than play their characters as they wish. The problem then becomes making the progression "fair" for every player (does everyone gain a dot in stats/merits/disciplines at the same time? What about players who want to specialize in one of these categories rather than get a dot here, then one there, etc? If you do give out different kinds of dots to different players, how do you balance that? Count the xp values? Then why not use XP? How do you space the rewards to not come too fast, but still make players feel they're advancing? Beats kinda give a "working towards my goal" vibe that you wouldn't have, so it becomes extra important.). If you can find a system to handle these potential problems, then I think just handing out dots works great. Sorta messes with Conditions though.

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                    • #11
                      Unahim, could you use the default system, but make Aspirations count double? Then they are pursuing their in character goals more than arbitrary actions?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Unahim View Post
                        I know two players in my group who'd absolutely love a system like that at least. They feel Beats make them pursue arbitrary actions rather than play their characters as they wish. The problem then becomes making the progression "fair" for every player (does everyone gain a dot in stats/merits/disciplines at the same time? What about players who want to specialize in one of these categories rather than get a dot here, then one there, etc? If you do give out different kinds of dots to different players, how do you balance that? Count the xp values? Then why not use XP? How do you space the rewards to not come too fast, but still make players feel they're advancing? Beats kinda give a "working towards my goal" vibe that you wouldn't have, so it becomes extra important.). If you can find a system to handle these potential problems, then I think just handing out dots works great. Sorta messes with Conditions though.
                        Fair point about Conditions. Hadn't considered that.

                        Maybe if instead of getting a Beat, players will replenish a Willpower dot (thus replacing the need for experience to replenish lost Willpower dots).

                        I was thinking of a system centred on the age of characters:

                        e.g.

                        +1 Attribute per century
                        +1 Ability per decade

                        Merits should be given and taken away like candy (specifically ones that can change depending on the story, i.e. status, mentor, resources).

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                        • #13
                          I think Ancient Mysteries covers the discrepancy between PC and NPC earnings by talking about how some vampires are active and some are passive and some cycle between them. Though I only skimmed that section, it seems reasonable to assume most NPCs in a city are more passive vampires rather than active, hence the slower XP/dot gain. i.e. they just go through each night partying and hunting and feeding (and possibly waiting for plans to come to fruition) rather than actively working towards any goals like the PCs do.

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                          • #14
                            I'm generally pretty happy just accepting that every game system makes protagonists special for no other reason than that they are protagonists. It's a compromise with Fun to hand the PCs xp on a real world timetable rather than an in game one. It would make more sense to get 3-5xp at the end of a year, but it makes any game that plays the night-to-night style far too boring.
                            Typical PC coteries are fairly atypical of kindred to begin with (actual trust of one another, cross covenant cooperation, not secretly vinculuming each other, often for reasons no better than "we're the PCs"), so the abstraction doesn't bother me. A lot of the other systems I've played had literal fate points, because the game is telling you that you are special, with more inherent potential than normal folks.

                            But. Another explanation to throw in with Maina's would be that NPCs tend to use cats-paws extensively, scheming and plotting and moving their chess pieces, but do very little of their own dirty work.
                            So NPCs gain and shed merits all of the time, shuffling allies and ghouls and businesses and cults and contacts and staff; they rarely bother upping their strength.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maina View Post
                              I think Ancient Mysteries covers the discrepancy between PC and NPC earnings by talking about how some vampires are active and some are passive and some cycle between them. Though I only skimmed that section, it seems reasonable to assume most NPCs in a city are more passive vampires rather than active, hence the slower XP/dot gain. i.e. they just go through each night partying and hunting and feeding (and possibly waiting for plans to come to fruition) rather than actively working towards any goals like the PCs do.
                              Not to mention another thing i sort of felt firsthand in a elders game - being old, powerful AND active is a recipe for things spiraling out of control with alarming frequency. A good discipline spread, half a dozen devotions and mid to low humanity, It's all too easy to fall in the temptation of doing insane/stupid masquerade-breaching stuff (draining mortal assailants husk-dry, getting up from a explosion in a public place instead of playing dead, hitting a larvae pack with a lampost ripped from the floor, etc) or so damn smoothly that it becomes telling the one responsible is quite supernatural.

                              Very experienced characters can turn "too good for their good", as they start to find niches were they are among the top 10 or, even more complicated, top 5 kindred of a city in a certain arena. It can turn specially curious if they develop some interest in younger kindred, as they may put them in trouble simply by giving them information or knowledge, even with good intentions, they simply are not equipped or jaded enough to chew upon or deal with.

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