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Frenzy vs Idol

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  • #31
    Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
    Bonus to what roll? Ride the Wave, yes. To overcome Idol, that's ST fiat.

    Being a discipline versus a mystery is why I would roll a Clash of Wills. Whenever the mechanics of a power come into direct conflict with another power and there's no clear delineation of which trumps the other is when you would roll a clash of wills.
    I thought that the frenzy BP bonus also applies to all resistance attribute rolls, but now I have a feeling the intent was to rolls such as strength+brawl-strength
    Last edited by Edgar McAlister; 02-25-2017, 03:24 PM.

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    • #32
      You add your mystery rating to the BP enhancing effects you gain while in frenzy. It's up to the ST if overcoming Idol counts as a resist check. (I say it is personally.)
      I think the power was meant to enhance resist checks against powers that deduct a target's Stamina from the dice pool or where your resist check consists of Resistance Attribute + BP

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      • #33
        *rises from torpor*

        Huh? Oh! Hey guys.

        Edgar: The +BP stuff definitely only applies to physical attribute rolls/resistance.

        Check out the second-to-last paragraph on pg 104. "If a character tries to coerce her to behavior contrary to the Beast's desires, either via Social actions or through Disciplines, the effort fails. They can, however, divert the Beast's attention to another, similar target."

        The character invoking Idol can't stop the frenzy entirely, but it will convince the frenzied vampire to go after a different target (assuming it fails to overcome Idol using the normal system).

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Smarmy Vamp View Post
          *rises from torpor*

          Huh? Oh! Hey guys.

          Edgar: The +BP stuff definitely only applies to physical attribute rolls/resistance.

          Check out the second-to-last paragraph on pg 104. "If a character tries to coerce her to behavior contrary to the Beast's desires, either via Social actions or through Disciplines, the effort fails. They can, however, divert the Beast's attention to another, similar target."

          The character invoking Idol can't stop the frenzy entirely, but it will convince the frenzied vampire to go after a different target (assuming it fails to overcome Idol using the normal system).
          Yes, thank you for the explanation, so I guess in rare occasions Idol might not work when there are no other targets, but in most cases it works, but the frenzy doesn't stop, since the target of frenzy is changed.

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          • #35
            The Idol tactic won't work on someone who has mastered the Coils of the Wyrm if they already selected their target using Ride the Wave. Trying to direct frenzy to someone else would auto fail since it runs contrary to the Beast's desire. The character can also simply redirect back to their original target cost free.

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            • #36

              Originally posted by Edgar McAlister View Post
              Yes, thank you for the explanation, so I guess in rare occasions Idol might not work when there are no other targets, but in most cases it works, but the frenzy doesn't stop, since the target of frenzy is changed.
              ​I would think there are always other targets. Just that target might be across the street or down the hall, or outside.



              Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
              The Idol tactic won't work on someone who has mastered the Coils of the Wyrm if they already selected their target using Ride the Wave. Trying to direct frenzy to someone else would auto fail since it runs contrary to the Beast's desire. The character can also simply redirect back to their original target cost free.
              I think they would have to roll to redirect it back to the original target. Because if you failed the person who frenzied, could choose to come out of the frenzy. Maybe you chicken out and decide it's a bad idea...

              He has no more control over his actions than he would
              in an involuntary frenzy (p. 103), and all rolls to escape frenzy
              before the stated objective is met are made at a –2 die penalty.

              When the original goal is no longer pressing or possible, the
              frenzy ends
              .


              Or mastered:


              Fortunately, he may now
              retain his frenzy past the end of the scene, riding the wave from
              impulse to impulse until he is destroyed, or sleep takes him.

              (He may also choose to leave frenzy at the end of any scene.)




              Small issue, Redirecting doesn't "Autofail" Trying to coerce the vampire against the beasts will does. Like Dominating them to tell them to hug their friend when they are in a death frenzy, Persuading them not to feed on you with a manipulation roll would also autofail. If you see the text in frenzy it says that you CAN redirect them. If they are in a kill frenzy you have them kill someone else, the beasts wants to kill and that's not against the beast's desires.

              ​If a character tries to coerce her to behavior contrary to the
              Beast’s desires, either via Social actions or through Disciplines,
              the effort fails. They can, however, divert the Beast’s attention
              to another, similar target.
              For example, if Veronica falls to
              her Beast due to hunger and leaps at Elspeth, Elspeth might
              Dominate her to attack Dominic instead



              All text in Italics is copied and pasted directly from the book.
              Last edited by Vitalis; 02-28-2017, 03:02 PM.

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