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My Methuselah Work in Progress.

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  • My Methuselah Work in Progress.

    Methuselah
    The Methuselah are as far removed from ordinary vampires, as vampires are from humans. They were once normal kindred, but through their own will, the whims of Fate, or mysterious rituals have become something else, something to be feared among the Kindred.
    All Methuselah are unable to feed from animals or humans, regardless of their blood potency, rather they must hunt the supernatural beings of the world of darkness, even when they have so recently emerged from the state. But for this price, they are afforded many advantages over other Kindred, even if they fall into torpor, the potency of their blood is not lost. Nor do they suffer the clouded memories associated with the long sleep.
    The other benefit that Methuselah have is, they’re essentially indestructible. They may have their bodies destroyed, but they come back. Sorcerers have been shown to exhibit a similar reincarnation in “The Ash that Devours”, becoming a spirit-ghost in the region they were slain, devouring until they can once again become flesh. The Methuselah go through a similar process, but dependent on their Damnation, manifest in different ways. The only way to ensure one is dead, is to use the unique Bane associated with its Site of Return.
    While Archmages may leave day-to-day politics due to the pax, the Methuselah on the other hand have no choice but to maneuver and involve themselves with their lesser kindred. Their hunger is insatiable and requires them to delve into the night, feeding from their own kind, and occasionally on those of the other denizens of darkness. They are driven by their change, and while among the damned, they must keep their presence hidden from those who would usurp their power… or who fear them.
    The Methuselah set themselves up in many ways, generally depending on their personalities. Zagreus, the endless thrill seeker knows that no mortal is likely to kill him, but that doesn’t mean he can’t savor new experiences while imprisoned. Rani, the ancient Mekhet has taken an interest in the Ordu Dracul… digging into the coils to try to free herself from the trappings of her Settite powers frailty to symbols of Horus. Methuselah have goals, they change, they seek new things, ideas, power, they are not the stagnant elders that are lost in the fog of Torpor. They hunt, they seek, they thirst for things, ever closer connection to their god, spreading their faith, pushing their agenda. Methuselah may be hidden among the neonates on the street, with ideals and goals as much as at the top, ruling over a city that doesn’t know their Prince can never truly be deposed. And then they might simply decide to do something else the next century.

    Methuselah Rules

    Clan
    Methuselah retain their clan weaknesses and discipline afinities as well as any bloodline affinities.

    Vitae
    Methuselah cannot gain vitae from Mortals, rather they must take it from other Kindred or supernatural sources. They are however immune to the Vinculum of their lesser kin and never risk Vitae addiction, despite needing it to fuel their undead existence. This is a double edged sword, as many powerful Prince would have the Methuselah killed, upon discovering they were an unbondable ancient.

    Vinculum
    The Methuselah, while immune to the Vinculum, is very effective at applying it. Only one taste is necessary to inflict a third stage vinculum, resistible as normal. The Methuselah’s vinculum is the only vinculum that can be applied to another Methuselah, as well as to other supernatural beings such as mages, werewolves and other denizens of darkness.

    Blood Potency and Torpo
    A Methuselah’s blood potency does not decrease with torpor, nor does it increase during. Rather a Methuselah falls into a state of stasis while in Torpor. As such, they are able to develop and maintain powers far more potent than their lesser kin, invoking Disciplines in new and fantastic ways depending on their mastery.

    Diablerie
    Methuselah do not suffer automatic Humanity loss from diablerie, and may store a number of souls equal to their blood potency. When a Methuselah commits diablerie it is a Humanity 3 breaking point instead. Souls may be used to fuel elder disciplines, restore Willpower, and even fill the Methuselah’s Vitae entirely. A soul can be spent to heal all wounds as well, regardless of type.
    Kindred souls are also necessary to fuel the most powerful of kindred abilities, advanced disciplines and sorceries.
    A Kindred may steal a Methuselah’s power through diablerie, but should they fail, the Methuselah devours the prospective Diablerist’s soul instead, without the risk of a breaking point.

    Return
    Fights among the Kindred can be deadly ordeals, often ending in the final death of one party. However, even if a Methuselah’s body were to be destroyed, this is no guarantee they will not come back.
    Methuselah do not always suffer final death upon taking full aggravated damage, rather only then do they fall into a special form of Torpor. Once in this torpor, the Methuselah spends its entire term, this cannot be rushed like it can be for the Ash that Devours. Rather after this time the Methuselah manifests in a form similar to the nemesis… the Strix. They are always a manifested spirit, harnessing items from the immediate vicinity, in a building this may be things like insects that swarm to the location, outdoors it could be various animals, dirt or garbage. They always manifest at their Site of Return, which is a place important to the Methuselah, and a part of their damnation. To return like this, the Methuselah must have a soul at the point of death, or they suffer final death, this soul point is taken automatically to begin the process. A life must be forfeited.
    While in this form, the Methuselah is conscious, and not a mindless creature, able to direct his needs more than that of the Ash that Devours. Rather they are not bound to their Site of Return, but may roam to find prey. The Methuselah must feed enough to heal all of the damage they suffered, for example a Methuselah that died with 7 health levels would need 35 vitae. Upon resurrection, the Methuselah is likely to go into hunger frenzy as many vampires waking from torpor.
    If a Methuselah were to have additional souls at the time they would have died, they can manifest fully by spending one soul after spending their period of time in torpor.

    Bane
    While Methuselah still suffer the lesser banes of their less potent Kin, they do not truly meet final death from them unless they do not have a soul in escrow. Rather they simply become discorporated until their period of torpor ends then they manifest as above.
    All Methuselah have a particular bane, generally associated with their origin, or damnation. Each is deeply personal to the Kindred, and provides a permanent touchstone as well in its opposite, even if it is a philosophical concept of something antithetical to their goals. The storyteller and player work together to determine the bane, it should be something likely to come up, as well as being relatively opposed to the Methuselah’s concept and damnation. These should be essentially anything symbolically opposed to them, rather than a simple specific item. There are two results that come from being confronted with your bane, one if during the period of return, when the Methuselah’s body is destroyed is Final Death, should the bane be presented at the Site of Return.
    However, if the vampire is presented with the bane while conscious, they take the condition “Stricken” which applies a penalty depending on how they were presented with the bane. Also, if the bane is weaponized, it will deal aggravated damage to the Methuselah. For example, an oppressive Invictus Dictator Methuselah might take aggravated damage from a sword inscribed with the Bill of Rights, or a Freedom Fighting Carthian Methuselah might take aggravated damage from a simple symbol of oppression, such as a whip.



    Example Banes:
    The following banes are not all inclusive, but should essentially all apply should they be appropriate. If it is symbolically against the Methuselah’s damnation (either their goals, the ritual they used, their particular transcendence etc.) it should apply as a source of the bane.
    Carthian Impassioned Freedom Fighter: Symbols of Oppression, whips, copies of the patriot act. Burning a copy of the Bill of rights. Anything Antithetical to the Methuselah’s passion.
    Invictus Impassioned Tyrant: Opposite of Any above, presentation of the Bill of Rights, burning a Bra, burning a copy of the Patriot act. Killing a loyal ghoul.
    Sorcerer: Any ritual designed to be a bane against her, whether Cruac, Theban, or without blood sorcery. A traditional folklore way of harming the undead. Rituals that protect from the supernatural.
    Transcendent: Symbol of limitations, presentation of a handicapped person, A vampire who has never heard of the Coils. Meeting limitations while facing the Methuselah (Vitae spending or being peak of form that your blood potency allows).
    Cursed: Symbols of Beauty, sunlight, Human Blood. Things that represent their cursed state and weaknesses. The name of the being that cursed them, symbols of said being if they believe to be cursed by a god, symbols of that god may be useful.
    Sanctified Worshipped: A symbol of God, Longinus or another being that might find their exaltation to be heretical. If worshipped by a pagan cult, symbols of Christian persecution against their cult, destruction of a likeness in their presense.




    The following condition can be waited out, but does not reward any beats for doing so.
    New Condition: Stricken
    The Methuselah has been presented with its bane, for the duration of exposure, and 1 night per blood potency after, the Methuselah takes a penalty to all actions equal to 7-humanity rating, with a minimum penalty of 1. This penalty also applies to defense. Due to the common nature of their banes, many Methuselah strive to keep manageable humanity ratings… or spend rounds in torpor as their enemies exploit their weaknesses.
    Possible Sources:Being presented with your bane.
    Resolution: Devour a soul through Diablerie or voluntary Torpor for a minimum term.

    Damnations
    Damnations are determined by how the damned become one of the Ancients, the Methuselah. Each is deeply ingrained; much like clan is for lesser vampires, and involves a symbol of their death, second death, or transition into the state of the Methuselah. They describe the circumstance of how they came to be what they now are, and often how they may organize themselves according to their beliefs about their state.

    Passion
    Those damned by will are those that want to survive. Regardless of the circumstance, they just have to make it, have to overcome the obstacle. These Kindred, are those that have strong desires; political, personal, or instinctual, they are passionate and strong willed to a fault. They simply will not lose, will not back down, and will not die. They are often exemplars of their cause, covenant or ideology. They come from backgrounds of power or aspiration, they are ambitious to a fault, and never let anything go.
    The impassioned-damned fight their way to the top, or were fighting their way when the damnation befell them. One thing that all of the Impassioned share is death. Either they meet what would be final death during their attempt at a rise to power, while fighting for an ideal, or defending what is theirs, they do meet their end… only to Rise.
    The impassioned tend towards unlives dedicated towards whatever they were so terribly devoted to before their damnation. An Invictus lord might devote himself to growing his personal power, lording over many cities either behind the scenes or in plain view. A Carthian might run a freedom-fighter organization, maneuvering it from the shadows, while still fighting on the ground to further his goal of freedom from whatever he views to be tyranny. A scholar might push ever deeper into mysteries, trying to find how to move beyond even his near immutable nature… they are defined by their passions, their aspirations.

    Bane
    Banes for the impassioned are often something that they fought against before their return. A new oppressive law named in the Carthian’s true name is buried at the site of his return. An Invictus lord might be deposed by having his name stricken from a dynasty, or his mortal powerbase slaughtered to the last before his return. Ones most loyal ghoul is killed while renouncing his loyalty. The obsessive Mekhet’s research being burned at the site, or the Gangrel survivalist’s might have a symbol of survival destroyed at his site, such as a fire created with flint and steel being quenched with water.

    Site of Return
    The passionate Methuselah returns exactly where it died, ready to pick up where it left off. Wherever the methuselah was thought to be dispatched, there they return, ready for vengeance.

    Sorcery
    Powerful rituals may be used to make one into a Methuselah, either through the Kindred Methods of Cruac and Theban Sorcery, or perhaps through some other mortal or stranger ritual. Whatever the case, those that become Methuselah through sorcery are deeply ingrained in ritual magic and often focus on esoteric research and mysteries. They might lead cults, like the Worshipped, or they may be sorcerers delving into dark forgotten monasteries the world over for forgotten knowledge.
    And they don’t stop beyond the ritual that put them at the top, they continue. Searching out greater power, trying to play in the field of the gods, working powerful ancient rituals to advance their power or to further their goal, these are often the most likely to stray into the politics of other beings, especially vying with mages for arcane artifacts. They might offer their services to a freehold to negotiate for legendary items from bed-time stories.
    They might cross over into spiritual realms to wrest power from spirits using devious rites and bans that they’d researched over the centuries. The Sorcerers are devious users of magic to gain the upper hand.

    Bane
    Sorcerers have banes related to ritual and sorcery. Most often this applies to magical symbols that are opposed to them in some symbolic way. This might be a talisman, an amulet, or even some folklore representation of vampiric weakness. Sorcerers have an immense level of belief associated with their power, and if they believe something might hurt them, or even remotely think some mystical symbol might, it will.

    Site of Return
    A sorcerer’s site of return is always the site of the ritual, where they became one of the Ancients. It doesn’t matter if they die halfway around the world, they always return to this site upon a not-so-final death.

    Worship
    Some Kindred become Methuselah through either belief in a higher power, and are rewarded for their devotion, or because they themselves have such devoted followers that they become something of the divine being they pretend to be. These beings either continue to devote themselves to their beliefs or embody the beliefs of their followers, serving as a patron to lesser servants, or overseeing the works in their deity’s honor. They may amass great cults, and often gather items from their respective faiths, or that they believe are symbolic to them. This may put them at odds with Sorcerers, both mortal and kindred, it may put them at odds with other… beings as well.
    Having been invested with great spiritual power, they often draw the attention of lesser spirits that serve beneath whatever being granted them their power… and at times the guardians of the borders between our world and the spirit world. Those that worship a God may seek to commune directly, passing into territories that were more dangerous when they were not so well equipped to survive.
    Those that are worshipped, are essentially symbols of their faiths, and often must abide by the tenants of those faiths. They may change over time, depending on the faith, its followers and the cultures, but the Worshipped and Worshippers must abide by the most current agreements about their faith.

    Bane
    The Worhsipped and Worshippers are bound by their faith, symbols that reflect their tenants may be used to keep them at bay, or weaken them. A Sanctified Methuselah might turn away from a cross wielding mortal, or cower at the sign of some oppositional force. An Acolyte might fall prey to a Christian invoking proscriptions against the worship of other gods. The worshipped must also abide by the beliefs of those that worship them. Instead of symbols of gods they are subordinate to, they must abide by their own symbols, and their own tenets.

    Site of Return
    The Worshippers and worshipped always regenerate at a holy site. This means the closest holy site to their most recent death. The site of their anointment into the Worshipped also acts as a holy site.

    Curse
    The cursed are something of an anomaly among the damned, sometimes becoming Methuselah without ever having been Kindred. They are cursed by some higher power, be it a powerful spirit, the Fae, God, or some Archmage whom they crossed. While greater than the lesser kindred, and far more durable, the cursed do suffer specific new weaknesses of their condition. Rather they are limited to a smaller food supply, almost always hunted for their power, and are affected by a larger range of banes. In a way, the cursed, and all Methuselah are more damned than any other.
    Rumor has it that Dracula was one of the Cursed, and having more weaknesses than the common Kindred sought what are now the Mysteries of the Dragon. The cursed are doubly damned as all Methuselah, unable to use their power openly, always thirsting, and always fearful of what may happen. The banes of the Ancients are large concepts, and anything symbolic of those concepts can greatly weaken or harm the Methuselah.
    Truly it can be a curse. However, the cursed often revel in it, spitting in the eye of whatever made them the way they are. They amass power, moving in secret, hiding their natures, fighting against their curses. Ancients who never grow weak can learn a great many things after all.

    Bane
    The cursed, much like the worshipped are stricken by signs of the being who cursed them. A cursed cursed by god may be repulsed by crosses and holy symbols. One cursed by a goddess of nature might fear wheat or fruit. A painted symbol of an archmaster may strike down the Methuselah. Sometimes faith in the one who cursed them in the first place is enough to put them down. Whatever it is, it must have some connection to the entity that cursed the Methuselah to this state in the first place.
    Site of Return
    The cursed return to the site of their curse, always. The place they were damned for eternity draws their spirit back from death, from wherever the body was slain.

    Transcendence
    The transcended are the damned who worked to move beyond their limitations, becoming a near indestructible force. Whether they sought transcendence through asceticism, or through vile experimentation, the Transcended find themselves freed of a number of the original weaknesses of the damned. While they still hunger and suffer the banes of vampiric existence, in addition to having a new, more sweeping weakness, they have mastered memory loss of the ages, they have lost the weakness of the flesh, and they’ve lost the inability to hold onto the power of potent blood.
    Truly, they have become something else, an embodiment of vampirism, devouring those of their own kind, eating the parasites rather than mankind, reaping their souls to their own whims. The transcended often continue their lifestyles, ever trying to move forward… and crushing anything that gets in their way. The Transcended may come into contact with other beings of great power seeking more changes, or they might work on changing themselves through powerful rituals, self dominate, or new coils.
    The transcended are those that seek to be ever greater, purer in form, even as they reach ever greater heights of power, it is never enough. They seek to be gods among gods, masters of themselves and others, teachers, and the greatest among the damned.

    Bane
    The transcended are harmed by signs of weakness and limitation, in battle you will never face one that would dismember you, for your weakness is reflected in themselves. After crushing an enemy, a Transcended may hide away, regaining its power, or devour them right there. Images of them before they surpassed their former state may stop them in their tracks. A wheelchair could crush one’s spirit. Symbols of their current weaknesses are very terrifying as well. Human blood might strike them weak, or a painting of the sun. Anything that could remind them that they aren’t gods, and there are limitations could be a potential bane.

    Site of Return
    The transcended tend towards places that are important to them and their work. A cave they meditate at, a lab where they worked. Anywhere that was important to their transcendence might be where they rise again.
    Last edited by Rani Neferet; 12-06-2013, 03:57 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks for posting. I gave it a read. I will think about it a little, read it again, and then maybe post what I think.

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    • #3
      I really like the idea... Though I think you make Dialbriee too fundamental a thing to being a methuleseh

      Dialbriee is an abomination even by most vampires standards, making it a basic part of MEthulsehs powers just doesnt feel right.


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      • #4
        I see, got examples of these 4th tier disciplines that cost souls?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
          I really like the idea... Though I think you make Dialbriee too fundamental a thing to being a methuleseh

          Dialbriee is an abomination even by most vampires standards, making it a basic part of MEthulsehs powers just doesnt feel right.
          I was going for a Predator of Predators. Methuselah KILL their lesser kin. I modeled it after the Coil that reduces the humanity cost of siring to a breaking point, by the time an ancient has become what it is, it see's other kindred the way they see the mortals, simply food. They aren't equals, they are just meals for the beast. The whole concept is to blend between a death-spirit and a vampire, something in between. Mind you, 6+ disciplines aren't something to be used lightly either, so diablerie isn't something they're going to be doing constantly, rather I would consider my work on 6+ disciplines to be equivalent of imperial spells, with the soul serving as the quintessence.

          That said, a Methuselah can go on without ever committing diablerie, they just won't be able to revive after death, nor will they get the various benefits associated. They still have the many other capabilities, such as immunity to Vinculum, enhanced Vinculum, blood potency that doesn't drop, and the natural diablerie counter.

          And I'm still currently working on the discipline spread, which is why I haven't posted it. Basically what I've done is broken each discipline into 3 major concepts, then I apply them to predatory aura aspects and then you generate an effect based on concept+aspect, each time unique and monstrous, but not something to be used lightly.
          Last edited by Rani Neferet; 12-06-2013, 01:50 AM.

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          • #6
            I'm back. I did my thinking and did a second reading. Here are my comments:

            -Soul eating. I don't think it fits with Methuselahs. Druagr maybe, not Methuselahs. The impression I got from the books were that Methuselahs somehow beat the game and managed to avoid problems of extreme age like the fog of memory and torpor. Any other powers they got were a by product of being ancient and learning new powers.
            -Clans? There was no mention if clans are still a thing. Do these Methuselahs still keep their clans or do they lose them? Are there any perks in having lost their clans (like a price reduction on all disciplines)?
            -Clans by another name. The 5 types of Methuselahs feel like they are another form of clan. They have an underlying theme and a shared bane theme.
            -The banes seem all the same. Something that all Methuselahs have in common is that they have banes, they just come in different flavors.
            -Nearly indestrucable. Like with soul eating, I don't think that Methuselahs should harder to kill. They could be harder to kill because they have more dots, like more dots in combat related stats, but not because of stuff that a normal vampire couldn't possibly get without becoming a Methuselah. That said, I think that a Methuselah might find it easier to learn about powerful stuff (and therefore figure out how to master them) that a normal vampire is unlikely to ever learn about.

            These are the things I can think about at the moment.

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            • #7
              Oh what I'd do if I was you, is require a LENGHY and uncompromisable period of Torpor at least a century to complete the transformation.

              Basicly in this torpor the Elder Conquers the fog of eternity

              A lenghthy torpor amongst other things helps reflect the idea of a chrystalis

              it also helps to make sure hes allready lost most of his connections with individual Kindred


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                Oh what I'd do if I was you, is require a LENGHY and uncompromisable period of Torpor at least a century to complete the transformation.
                I had actually considered this, however, I turned it down due to it being basically something that completely interrupts the course of play. Rather the template is designed to allow for players to become methuselah during the game. It isn't intended to be a "Start as Methuselah" only. You could be a young kindred and become one should the appropriate steps be taken.

                Originally posted by DivineWrath

                -Soul eating. I don't think it fits with Methuselahs. Druagr maybe, not Methuselahs. The impression I got from the books were that Methuselahs somehow beat the game and managed to avoid problems of extreme age like the fog of memory and torpor. Any other powers they got were a by product of being ancient and learning new powers.

                -Nearly indestrucable. Like with soul eating, I don't think that Methuselahs should harder to kill. They could be harder to kill because they have more dots, like more dots in combat related stats, but not because of stuff that a normal vampire couldn't possibly get without becoming a Methuselah. That said, I think that a Methuselah might find it easier to learn about powerful stuff (and therefore figure out how to master them) that a normal vampire is unlikely to ever learn about.
                The thing here is, I wanted to make it an Evolved Template, Similar to Archmages, rather than defaulting to "Just old with good memory". Rather than just being a pissant that might have some powerful disciplines, I wanted to have it be a completely greater state. I mean, Zagreus LET the hunters take him, he's got something up his sleeve. Much like the Archmage template adds several base capabilities, the Methuselah adds Apex Predator concepts. Its a mean, nasty beast, it will eat you, and its a lot tougher than its lesser kin. Think of a bear compared to say a Single Wolf.

                And as for clans, Zagreus still is a member of his clan, rather Clan is still an integral part of being one of the kindred. It doesn't change, you remain a Mekhet but are also a Methuselah.

                The 5 types of Methuselah were related more to their method of ascension, they are basically willful beliefs of the Methuselah that have driven its change. They're more of philosophies.

                Banes are all the same. Despite how a Methuselah got there, he has a bane that is a BROAD concept related to how he became a Methuselah. It isn't intended to be a Clan Weakness, its intended as a general mechanism that is a secret all Methuselah try to hide, but are likely to run into at some point or another.


                Comment


                • #9
                  On Banes: I think that something like "Burning The Patriot Act" should not affect a thousand year old monster in any way.
                  How about using something that is/was part of is Human life ? In that way, the human life he came from is the weak spot of the otherwise indestructible monster.

                  Sample Banes:
                  The blood of a relative of his mortal lineage is poisonous.
                  He can´t see anyone wearing some of his former life´s clothing.
                  Cannot resist a wish asked by a woman carrying the wedding ring of his wife
                  May not hurt the descendants of a man he swore fealty when he was a mortal.
                  Recieves aggrevated damage from wood cut from the tree that he planted as a child.


                  That way you can make the search for an Methusaleh a prolonged treasure quest, your players can bring different specialities into play from burglary to studying ancient texts...


                  On Humanity: I agree that Methusalehs should not suffer for Diablerie and such, in fact they should be so grown away from their Human selfs that they are more forces of nature than Vampires. Maybe a complete replacement for Humanity would be in order..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doc Lumbago View Post
                    On Banes: I think that something like "Burning The Patriot Act" should not affect a thousand year old monster in any way.
                    How about using something that is/was part of is Human life ? In that way, the human life he came from is the weak spot of the otherwise indestructible monster.

                    Sample Banes:
                    The blood of a relative of his mortal lineage is poisonous.
                    He can´t see anyone wearing some of his former life´s clothing.
                    Cannot resist a wish asked by a woman carrying the wedding ring of his wife
                    May not hurt the descendants of a man he swore fealty when he was a mortal.
                    Recieves aggrevated damage from wood cut from the tree that he planted as a child.


                    That way you can make the search for an Methusaleh a prolonged treasure quest, your players can bring different specialities into play from burglary to studying ancient texts...


                    On Humanity: I agree that Methusalehs should not suffer for Diablerie and such, in fact they should be so grown away from their Human selfs that they are more forces of nature than Vampires. Maybe a complete replacement for Humanity would be in order..
                    Those were just samples, if the vampire doesn't recognize it as a symbol of freedom, then it can hardly be something that weakens him. I Don't know about the mortal life thing, the problem with that is I wanted it to be things that are relatively likely to come up. All of your examples are too rare. I wanted the Bane's to be broad concepts associated with their approach to having become Methuselah. They have great power, especially when I finish up the discipline system once B&S is out, and are basically indestructible without such banes, but I wouldn't want them on par with spirits and gods as to weaknesses.

                    As far as switching from humanity, I disagree, I find the new humanity to be adequate for elders and Methuselah, it doesn't measure morality, but rather connection with humanity. My diablerie sin level was set at the same as siring a new vampire with Coil of the Voivode 5. In Requiem for Rome, I believe its mention of Methuselah boiled down to basically ravenous "Careful Predator" draugr. They remembered everything, but were likely to live away from prying eyes and thought nothing of devouring other kindred.

                    I am thinking of revising diablerie, and perhaps going with 5 different routes to power, with one likely still being diablerie.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rani Neferet View Post

                      Those were just samples, if the vampire doesn't recognize it as a symbol of freedom, then it can hardly be something that weakens him. I Don't know about the mortal life thing, the problem with that is I wanted it to be things that are relatively likely to come up. All of your examples are too rare. I wanted the Bane's to be broad concepts associated with their approach to having become Methuselah. They have great power, especially when I finish up the discipline system once B&S is out, and are basically indestructible without such banes, but I wouldn't want them on par with spirits and gods as to weaknesses.

                      As far as switching from humanity, I disagree, I find the new humanity to be adequate for elders and Methuselah, it doesn't measure morality, but rather connection with humanity. My diablerie sin level was set at the same as siring a new vampire with Coil of the Voivode 5. In Requiem for Rome, I believe its mention of Methuselah boiled down to basically ravenous "Careful Predator" draugr. They remembered everything, but were likely to live away from prying eyes and thought nothing of devouring other kindred.

                      I am thinking of revising diablerie, and perhaps going with 5 different routes to power, with one likely still being diablerie.
                      I think Doc's idea makes an excellent idea for setting the Methuselah up as a Call of Cthulhuesque antagonist, which requires some research into their past and such to defeat. Your version sounds a bit more "balanced" for PC play, because the weakness is less esoteric. I don't think either approach is wrong, but I have to admit at first glance I do favor the former over the latter. I imagine Methuselah as being somewhat akin to a force of nature. With enough preperation and knowledge, they can be handled, but if you're not ready? Oh boy.


                      I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post

                        I think Doc's idea makes an excellent idea for setting the Methuselah up as a Call of Cthulhuesque antagonist, which requires some research into their past and such to defeat. Your version sounds a bit more "balanced" for PC play, because the weakness is less esoteric. I don't think either approach is wrong, but I have to admit at first glance I do favor the former over the latter. I imagine Methuselah as being somewhat akin to a force of nature. With enough preperation and knowledge, they can be handled, but if you're not ready? Oh boy.
                        Approaching it from a playable perspective is my intent however. Mind you, the weaknesses are rather intentionally vague and based roughly on the characters concepts and provide a level of rationalization. They were meant to be examples, not hard "this is it". For example, just about everything he named might be appropriate for a Transcendent, reminding him of human weakness, or of what they have given up.

                        Essentially the concept of banes as I present them are to be broad topics associated with just how the character became a Methuselah, or at least how they perceive they became Methuselah. It is a very personal thing to each of them, and would require research unless you happened upon him reacting to his bane out of circumstance (Maybe the tyrannical passionate who fought for the British Army staying away from the Liberty Bell).

                        They need to be rather broad and based on their requiems because requiems tend to hold the metaphysical value that prompted them to the further step. They also need to be an ever present danger since they have a near built in regeneration capability and powerful innate uses.


                        For those of you who are so set against soul use and Diablerie, what alternatives would you suggest that equate to the equivalent of arcane experience in Mage? I wanted souls to be equivalent to quintessence/arcane experience as they aren't particularly easy to come by, and carry heavy stigma's in regards to soul consumption. (Souls can be spent in similar ways to arcane experience in my writeup here). I don't want to get into ridiculous blood costs, and wanted to add some innate capability beyond normal vampires, with Elder Disciplines being something not used lightly.

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                        • #13
                          Y'know, thinking about it, ascending to the Methuselah state and gaining those kinds of broad banes jives pretty well with the explanation for Banes in B&S, now that I think about it. Banes, as I recall, are like little scars on your soul. Sort of deals with the Beast. Well, for the Methuselah, their broader banes are a more radical example of this, that allows them to preserve a human-like (although undoubtedly more alien than before) mindset even in their new state. If you have an idea for Draugr Methuselah (who I imagine represent a sort of platonic ideal of the Beast) I'd imagine them as being plenty intelligent but utterly alien in their thought process and motivation. And they might not have the same weaknesses as those Methuselah who attained their state with their Humanity intact.

                          Draugr Methuselah like that might have the weaknesses Doc described, since that'll remind them and weaken them in the face of what they've given up. Both could see use that way. That said, I appreciate your approach more now, having thought further on it.


                          I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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                          • #14
                            The base concept was tying the banes to the obsessions that gave them the will to break through to the new condition. Regardless of how they believe they became methuselah, it had more to do with their force of will.

                            I'm considering putting a willpower requirement on the template, to reflect that its only the highest willed that achieve such a state.

                            Think about the Legend undertaking in Slasher, they have certain story trappings associated with their story. Methuselah have trappings associated with what they've told about themselves, what they believe made them Methuselah, either their drive for power, for unity, for knowledge.

                            I've got an Ordu Mekhet concept right now that is one of the impassioned towards knowledge. Symbols of restricting knowledge/book burnings and things of that nature are problematic for her. God forbid she try to read something redacted.

                            The banes are meant to fit your character concept, but be rather broad such that they come up, otherwise with one diablerie, your basically unstoppable. They're still esoteric enough that they can be hidden, but broad enough that you MIGHT come upon it on accident.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rani Neferet View Post
                              The base concept was tying the banes to the obsessions that gave them the will to break through to the new condition. Regardless of how they believe they became methuselah, it had more to do with their force of will.

                              I'm considering putting a willpower requirement on the template, to reflect that its only the highest willed that achieve such a state.

                              Think about the Legend undertaking in Slasher, they have certain story trappings associated with their story. Methuselah have trappings associated with what they've told about themselves, what they believe made them Methuselah, either their drive for power, for unity, for knowledge.

                              I've got an Ordu Mekhet concept right now that is one of the impassioned towards knowledge. Symbols of restricting knowledge/book burnings and things of that nature are problematic for her. God forbid she try to read something redacted.

                              The banes are meant to fit your character concept, but be rather broad such that they come up, otherwise with one diablerie, your basically unstoppable. They're still esoteric enough that they can be hidden, but broad enough that you MIGHT come upon it on accident.


                              1, I think that tying the Bane to the Ascencion of the Methusaleh is a very good concept. Maybe you could consider it to be a behavioural Bane.

                              Ideas: Cannot ignore a personal challenge-Cannot leave a task unfulfilled-Cannot touch a priest of a specififc religion-cannot enter certain places (jails, courtrooms, churches) - Must help a child in danger - Must tell the truth if asked ....


                              2. I like the idea of storing diablerized souls and special powers fueled with them very much


                              One suggestion (as replacement of the 3 souls storage) : The M. not only sucks the soul like a common Vampire, he s able to absorb it wholly,
                              thus gaining knowledge not only of the Disciplines but also the memories of his victim. He may this way learn new esoteric Rituals, languages and other mental skills.

                              This comes with a risk. Every time the M. diablerizes one victim there is chance, that the memories and personalities of himself and
                              his victim mingle. With every soul stored in his body, the chance increases that he gets a Bane or a severe psychic condition up to
                              Multiple Personality Disorder. Also, his Aura he is more likely to be detected by people with a sense for the supernatural

                              Rulewise, every time a M. commits Diablerie he must make a roll to savely absorb the soul.
                              The roll should get expotientally difficult with every soul stored in his body. Using the souls reduces the risk again.
                              Thus, it is relatively safe for a M. to have 1-3 souls in his body, he could theoratically store more but would put his sanity in grave danger.

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