B&S: Coil of Blood & Souls

[Laraqua]

While I am liking the new coils, I do miss the coils involving lasting longer without blood and lasting on animal blood. They gave the Ordo Dracul such a unique flavor as they could spend more time studying than hunting, though indeed they still needed to hunt. I know that blood hunger is a big theme in the game but it's not like we run a feeding scene each session anyhow. I understand that the latter two parts of Coil of Souls aren't very valuable anymore due to their focus on derangements but I did like the first one. Not sure if it could be expanded to create an entire coil, though. Blood, on the other hand, probably could.

Has anyone put some thought into updating Coil of Blood? What sort of scales could be in place? Or whether the first dot of Souls could be expanded or attached to a different path? Hmm, one could probably add to Souls the reverse of the Red Surrender, quashing the Beast in favour of the Man.

Ooh, and while I'm at it, what about the Coils of the Ladder and Coils of the Locusts? Do you guys think that still has a place? And if so, what would it look like?

[PenDragon]

I posted this on the old forum in response to Coil of Blood requests, and in the B&S conversion thread, but this seems an appropriate place as well. It's just an outline, but has everything needed to be playable (rules wise).

Coil of the Ascetic
Dot 1: The Vampire can consume mortal food without need for the blush of life. Consuming enough food provides a bonus to the next Hunger Frenzy roll.
Dot 2: By consuming mortal food the vampire can resolve the Wanton Condition. The Dragon can use mortal eating habits as a touchstone
Dot 3: The Dragon can 'binge' himself over the normal Vitae limits by up to [Coil Dots] Vitae. So long as he is above his normal maximum he needs only spend 1 Vitae to wake every [Coil Dots] days.
Dot 4: The Dragon may continue to take sustenance from Animals and Humans, however he has to deal [BP-2] damage for each Vitae from an animal, or [BP-5] for every point from a human (minimum 1 damage in either case)
Dot 5: The Dragon can eat recently dead flesh (within the last 24 hours) and gain Vitae, the Vitae gained is equal to the Size of the creature. This follows the same restrictions as normal feeding, i.e. if the Vampire is BP 4 a Size 4 animal only gives 2 Vitae.

[DivineWrath]

@ PenDragon

You may wish to revise the dot 4 power. On p. 89 of Blood and Smoke, it says that a vampire may consume blood that is normally denied to it based upon it's blood potency. It must spend a point of willpower per point of vitae it consumes. This means that any vampire can continue to feed despite high BP (though their feeding rate would be then be limited by the rate it regains willpower points). This means that your dot 4 power is only useful if the vampire wants to conserve willpower points, not be the only effective means of feeding without feeding on kindred (and suffering the risks).

[Laraqua]

I like it, though I might remove 4's damage or reduce it. Any idea what scale abilities could go with it?

[PenDragon]

@ PenDragon

You may wish to revise the dot 4 power. On p. 89 of Blood and Smoke, it says that a vampire may consume blood that is normally denied to it based upon it's blood potency. It must spend a point of willpower per point of vitae it consumes. This means that any vampire can continue to feed despite high BP (though their feeding rate would be then be limited by the rate it regains willpower points). This means that your dot 4 power is only useful if the vampire wants to conserve willpower points, not be the only effective means of feeding without feeding on kindred (and suffering the risks).

Hmmm, good point. Better point, it's a bookkeeping nightmare.

I think it can safely be changed to "The Dragon can feed on as though her Blood Potency was [Coil Dots] lower, but doing so requires him to deal twice the damage per Vitae". Same general effect, vastly less math.

[Laraqua]

Aww, no one has any thoughts on Scales for that Coil of the Blood?

No idea about Scales, but I have come up with a Coil of the Ladder and Coil of the Locust option.

Coil of the Locust

Enliven the Face (Humanity 5): The kindred’s Humanity doesn’t provide penalties to their interactions.

Planned Emergence (Humanity 4): The kindred may set a trigger to automatically wake up from torpor.

Quiet the Soul (Humanity 3): The kindred may spend a Willpower point to ignore a bane taken to ignore a sin. This doesn’t affect banes which affect all kindred.

Marrow of the Spirit (Humanity 2): The kindred’s Aura changes to match that of a diablerized mortal victim and they gain a 9-Aged against relations of that victim. This lasts only for so long as the soul remains within the kindred (which is for nights equal to Blood Potency).

Echo of the Soul (Humanity 1): The kindred may recall knowledge known by a diablerized mortal victim using an Intelligence + Academics roll for so long as the soul remains within the kindred (which is for nights equal to Blood Potency).

Coil of Anoushka’s Ladder

Denial of Morpheus (Humanity 6): All torpor counts as voluntary torpor when considering one’s mental state and feelings.

Stir the Blood (Humanity 7): The kindred’s Blood Potency is halved to determine the duration of torpor.

Rise Above Thirst (Humanity 8): The kindred may spend only a single blood to awaken for a week.

The Open Cage (Humanity 9): The kindred may spend a point of Willpower to automatically resist a frenzy.

Divorce the Clan (Humanity 10): The kindred doesn’t suffer from sin-based banes, including clan or bloodline weaknesses for so long as they don’t use any disciplines that night.

[Laraqua]

My variant on Coil of the Ascetic, complete with names and a single scale. Hope you don't my tinkering.

The Coils of the Ascetic (Onyx Path)
Consumption of Inner Peace •
This gluttonous path allows a Kindred to control the flow of Vitae in their body and the Beast’s reaction to such food. At this level the Dragon can accept alien foods (like human foods) and use its weight to confuse the Beast as to whether it is currently sated. Thus not only can the Dragon eat mortal food without using Blush of Life but doing so provides a +2 bonus to their next Hunger Frenzy roll. They need to regurgitate the food at the end of the night.

Comfort Eating ••
A Dragon no longer takes witnessing a mortal eating food as a sin at Humanity 9 (CHECK THIS). Eating mortal food also allows the Kindred to resolve the Wanton Condition and the player may select mortal eating habits as a Touchstone. Mortal food also tastes bland rather than like ash to the Dragon’s mouth.

Binge Drinking •••
The Dragon can ‘binge’ himself over the normal Vitae limits by up to [Coil Dots] Vitae. So long as he is above his normal maximum he needs only spend 1 Vitae to wake every [Coil Dots] days.

Feeding Below One’s Beast ••••
The Dragon may continue to take sustenance from Animals and Humans even after his Blood Potency has risen to the point where he would normally need to eat the next level higher. However he has to drink [BP-2] points (dealing equivalent damage) for each Vitae taken from an animal when his Blood Potency ranges between 3 and 5. Once Blood Potency has reached 6, the Kindred deals [BP-5] for every vitae taken from a human and [BP-10] for every vitae taken from an animal.

Carrion Feeding •••••
The Dragon can eat recently dead flesh (within the last 24 hours) and gain Vitae, the Vitae gained is equal to the Size of the creature. This follows the same restrictions as normal feeding, i.e. if the Vampire is BP 4 a Size 4 animal only gives 2 Vitae. The consumed flesh is vaporised within the Dragon’s belly and its absorption is thus assured. Consuming a human’s corpse is a Humanity 5 sin as cannibalism is quite the breaking point.

Scales of the Ascetic
Moment of Comprehension
Prerequisite Coil: Comfort Eating
Procedure: TBA.

Outcome: There’s something primal about humans sharing food and now that you can mildly indulge with them you can take advantage of this. You gain a +2 bonus to Empathy rolls on humans after you have shared a meal together.

[Unahim]

Coil of Anoushka’s Ladder

Denial of Morpheus (Humanity 6): All torpor counts as voluntary torpor when considering one’s mental state and feelings.

Stir the Blood (Humanity 7): The kindred’s Blood Potency is halved to determine the duration of torpor.

Rise Above Thirst (Humanity 8): The kindred may spend only a single blood to awaken for a week.

The Open Cage (Humanity 9): The kindred may spend a point of Willpower to automatically resist a frenzy.

Divorce the Clan (Humanity 10): The kindred doesn’t suffer from sin-based banes, including clan or bloodline weaknesses for so long as they don’t use any disciplines that night.

I like it, but isn't it going to be incredibly hard for a Dragon to go up in Humanity? Also might be weird for a kindred wanting to go up in humanity (so to speak) being part of such a... questionable organization to begin with.

[Stupid Loserman]

I like it, but isn't it going to be incredibly hard for a Dragon to go up in Humanity? Also might be weird for a kindred wanting to go up in humanity (so to speak) being part of such a... questionable organization to begin with.

This was a little clearer in materials prior to Blood & Smoke, but there is a faction of the Ordo Dracul composed of vampires who are driven to find a way to defeat the Curse not necessarily because they want to become a greater monster, but because they don't want to be a monster and want to minimize the factors driving them to be one. Anoushka's Ladder is a deprecated coil within the Order, viewed by many Dragons as a shortsighted and self-defeating practice, but it is explicitly followed by vampires who seek divine forgiveness, spiritual purity, absolution, or whatever you want to call the way out of the Curse back to mortality.

Edit: People looking for other alternatives of Coils geared towards escaping monstrocity could take a look at my Before the Bomb supplement too. The Noble Paths of the Fugenkai, a nirvana cult written up there, were created using the original three Coils of the Dragon as a base for inspiration, although the Fugenkai is more interested in defeating certain parts of the Curse than others; defeating torpor and enhancing the blush of life, for example, aren't pursued. They are, however, more Humanity-oriented than the Order, generally speaking.

[DivineWrath]

Yeah. Anoushka's Ladder is a set of coils of that does not mesh well with the philosophy of the Ordo Dracul. It is an Apocryphal coil. Such coils don't overcome the curse (like proper coils should), they twist, warp, subvert the curse. Consequentially, they are not philosophically compatible with the normal coils. Getting found out that you know such coils is a good way to get kicked out of the order (and to be rendered ash a few days later). So if the coils look too wierd, too pious, too vile, too whatever, that is kinda the point of the devs making them.

You can find info on these coils on (Ordo Dracul covenant book, p. 176).

Where the rest of order thinks that they should defy God, those who pursue this path thinks they can gain forgiveness in the eyes of God (or at least some of them do). Its basically seeking Golconda though the use of coils. Its a difficult path, one they expect to have to walk before get the rewards. They are quite willing to lose their vampiric powers if they think they they can get ride of the curse as well.

[Unahim]

That's pretty interesting. I've got a vampire character who was a doctor in life, who's trying to find ways to improve Kindred society with a combination of her old medical/psychological knowledge, and new occult lore. It was hard fitting her into any sort of faction, since any organisation that does research in Kindred-land seems to use inhumane practices. I might have to check these apocryphal coils out.

[Leetsepeak]

Honestly, she sounds like a Carthian to me, in that case. I know they sound awfully political, but the Night Doctors provide an example of Carthians using the physiology angle.

[NineDaysDead]

I like it, but isn't it going to be incredibly hard for a Dragon to go up in Humanity? Also might be weird for a kindred wanting to go up in humanity (so to speak) being part of such a... questionable organization to begin with.

In Requiem, the Dragons had the best potential for retaining humanity:
Blood 1 means you don't have to feed as often.
Blood 2 means you can always feed from animals

Banes 1&2 allow to be active in the day, to better interact with mortals.

Beast 1 & 3: shuts down frenzy.

Soul 1: Humanity no longer acts as a cap for dice pools involving interactions with mortals. This allows for much more healthy interaction with mortals than Dominate, Majesty and Nightmare. (Dominate, Majesty and Nightmare are much better for getting your own way).

The Dickery of the ordo often seemed gratuitous.

[Unahim]

Honestly, she sounds like a Carthian to me, in that case. I know they sound awfully political, but the Night Doctors provide an example of Carthians using the physiology angle.

She's sorta going that angle already. She'd be in the Carthians by now if a whole lot of inter-covenant dickery hadn't caused an awful lot of political upheaval and subsequent chaos. The Night Doctors are really inhumane though, to the point that other Kindred are sort of scared of them. She wouldn't fit in. Not to mention that they're most concerned with developing surgical techniques and ignore the occult angle, which is not what my character is trying to do. She could always start her own sub-group, of course...

I haven't gotten B&S yet (I'm hoping to purchase the pdf this friday, but paypal is a bit slow around this time of year! Them banks.), so can someone tell me if there's still a explicit ban on being part of two covenants? (past the first status dot, that is) Elsewise trying for a Carthian with Dracul ties (or an Ordo Draco member who is politically active through Carthians) might be a viable long term goal, after a looot of trust gaining on both sides.

Campaign has been on hiatus while waiting for B&S, so I'm just mainly gathering ideas for character goals right now.

[NineDaysDead]

I haven't gotten B&S yet (I'm hoping to purchase the pdf this friday, but paypal is a bit slow around this time of year! Them banks.), so can someone tell me if there's still a explicit ban on being part of two covenants? (past the first status dot, that is) Elsewise trying for a Carthian with Dracul ties (or an Ordo Draco member who is politically active through Carthians) might be a viable long term goal, after a looot of trust gaining on both sides.

It's explicity allowed.