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  • #16
    Originally posted by Unahim View Post
    I haven't gotten B&S yet (I'm hoping to purchase the pdf this friday, but paypal is a bit slow around this time of year! Them banks.), so can someone tell me if there's still a explicit ban on being part of two covenants? (past the first status dot, that is) Elsewise trying for a Carthian with Dracul ties (or an Ordo Draco member who is politically active through Carthians) might be a viable long term goal, after a looot of trust gaining on both sides.
    The revised status merit is Kindred Status, p. 113 . You can have up to 5 dots of status for covenants, but you must belong to one of them, and no other covenant may have as many dots of status as your primary (for example, 3 dots primary & 2 dots in one other covenant, or 2 dots primary & 1 dot in 3 other covenants). Sharing covenant secrets is still a good way to lose dots and bring a quick end to one's requiem.

    The merit (Right of Return, p. 116) removes Carthian Status dots from the equations when determining your status dots. Its like they don't exist. However, the merit does have some drawbacks, so its not perfect.

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    • #17
      For Vampires, nothing ever is I'll look into this when I get the pdf. (hopefully tomorrow!)


      Homebrew
      - CtL 2E: Seeming Benefits for every Contract

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      • #18
        PenDragon, Laraqua, I really, really like your ideas for a Hunger-related Coil! If you don't mind, here is how I've reworked them together.

        Mystery of the Hunger / Coil of Hunger

        Denial of Want ●
        When the Dragon spends vitae to allow her to eat or drink that effect lasts for a full night. In addition, she no longer has to vomit up the meal afterwards. Instead, her vitae acts to break down the meal and adds it to her own substance, effectively digesting it (stuffing her stomach beyond its capacity will make her throw up, though). Eating an amount of food comparable with a normal, human meal provides a +2 bonus to the next Hunger Frenzy roll. The meal must be something nominally edible, though the vampire is immune to any mundane form of food poisoning. Also, if the Dragon ever fails a roll to resist hunger-based Frenzy, spending a Willpower point allows her to re-roll. The Dragon no longer takes witnessing a mortal eating food as a sin at Humanity 9.
        If the Dragon makes a habit of consuming mortal meals in at least once per night, she may use this ritual as a Touchstone. Leaving off this ritual for a month or longer while active destroys the Touchstone.

        Mortal Banquet ●●
        Eating and digesting food does no longer requires the Blush of Life. By consuming a human meal the vampire can resolve the Wanton Condition. Eating a meal made from fresh meat dead within the last 24 hours will also heal one level of bashing or lethal damage, whichever is right-most on the Health track. She may only consume one such meal per three hours.


        Minimize Subsistance ●●●
        As the Dragon masters her Hunger, she learns to taper off her reliance on vitae. Each vitae spent waking up allows the Dragon to rise a number of consecutive nights equal to her rating in the Coil of Hunger. Furthermore, eating a meal suitable for healing that includes at least 1kg of flesh restores 1 vitae, as long as the flesh comes from a creature whose vitae can substain the Dragon.

        Potency of Vitae ●●●●
        At this level the Dragon has learned to regulate the concentration of the vitae itself. Treat the Dragon’s Blood Potency as three lower when determining the kind of vitae she can subsist on without spending Willpower (animal, human or supernatural) and increase the size of her Blood Pool by her rating in the Coil of Hunger.

        The Ascetic’s Diet ●●●●●
        At the pinnacle of the Mystery of the Hunger, the Dragon can survive on even the thinnest of blood and resist the lure of even the richest. Regardless of her Blood Potency the Dragon can subsist on any kind of blood, be it animal, human or supernatural, without spending Willpower. Furthermore, the Dragon halves the quantity of cold human blood needed to constitute one vitae if her BP is greater than 1 and also gains more vitae than usual from animals (Size 2-3 animals provide 4 Vitae each, Size 4-5 animals provide 6; each point of Size above that adds 2 more Vitae available). If the Dragon does imbibe Kindred vitae, she has a +5 bonus to resist Vitae Addiction; this bonus also applies to resist the side effects of drinking the blood of any other supernatural being and the Resolve+Composure roll to resist the opportunity to drink Vitae if she’s already addicted.


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        • #19
          I'm concerned that last dot makes Dragons too powerful, because it essentially negates the chief reason for Vampires to go into Torpor, and also negates half the bonus of the previous dot.


          I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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          • #20
            What do you means, "negates"? It improves it's prerequisite! With Potency of Vitae a vampire who was able to feed only on people can drink animal blood again and a vampire with high BP (but not too high) can feed on humans again, with The Ascetic’s Diet everybody can feed on animals. You don't say that Vigor 2 negates Vigor 1 because it does the same thing, only better, surely?

            Regarding the fact that the Mystery makes Torpor a lot less necessary for elders, that's entirely intended and exactly what PenDragon's coil does, what the old Coil of Blood did, and pretty much what Sanguinary Invigoration does up to BP 9.


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            • #21
              Mea culpa, you're right on it improving. I think there's something to be said about Sanguinary Invocation being a scale that isn't terribly convenient, and that the old Coil is outdated, and that PenDragon's would have the same issue. I'm a huge fan of the whole thing, I'm just expressing that I'm not sure that it's ideal for that reason. Plus, I kind of like Sanguinary Invocation filling that niche nicely.

              I'll try to think on any alternative ideas for a fifth dot, but failing that, what you've got is pretty top notch.


              I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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              • #22
                Thanks. The idea is that when the other Covenants and the younger Dragons will start to realize the implications of what this mystery do things will become interesting.

                If you want a version of the fifth coil that makes unlife for the very eldest only marginally more comfortable, so that they will eventually choose to go sleep for a couple of centuries, would this work for you?

                The Ascetic’s Diet ●●●●●
                The Dragon calculate the quantity of cold human blood needed to constitute one vitae as if her BP were 3 points lower (minimum 1) and also gains more vitae than usual from animals (Size 2-3 animals provide 4 Vitae each, Size 4-5 animals provide 6; each point of Size above that adds 2 more Vitae available).
                If the Dragon's Blood Potency is so high that even Potency of Vitae can't help her assimilate mortal blood, the pinnacle of the Coil comes to her rescue: she gains 1 Vitae for every 5 damages she inflicts to a human by feeding as long as her BP is 9; when her BP reaches 10, she needs to inflict 10 levels of damage for 1 vitae. She can also assimilate mortal blood by spending Willpower like the other elders, if she chooses to do so, or try to turn fresh human meat in vitae by eating it, but she needs at least 5 kg of flash (taken from a single "donor") and is able to do this only once every night ( for the rest of the day, ingesting anything else after this meal will result in vomiting and loss of 1 vitae).
                If the Dragon is still able to drink human blood without spending Willpower, by virtue of Potency of Vitae or her naturally low BP, she takes two Vitae for the very first damage she inflicts to her human victims by feeding. If she has already drunk from that particular mortal in the last 24 hours, though, this doesn't happen.
                If the Dragon imbibes Kindred vitae, she has a +5 bonus to resist Vitae Addiction; this bonus also applies to resist the side effects of drinking the blood of any other supernatural being and the Resolve+Composure roll to resist the opportunity to drink Vitae if she’s already addicted.
                Last edited by Ophion; 01-05-2014, 09:46 AM.


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                • #23
                  I've written up an updated version of the Coil of Blood for use in my game. I incorporated the text from the old coil and added two new levels. I'm also planning a Scale that would allow the dragon to alchemically store blood that could avoid the diminished returns that usually apply to stored blood. Anywho, use it or don't, but this is probably what I will use in my game.

                  Coil of Blood
                  Vampires must feed on living blood to survive, and only the weakest of the Kindred can draw sustenance from the blood of animals. The Coil of Blood seeks to lift this requirement, allowing the Kindred to feed on their own terms, rather than forever be slaves to their hunger.

                  Resistance to Blood’s Hold
                  The Kindred’s path to a greater understanding of the Blood begins by mastering her hunger. The Dragon takes two extra dice to any roll to resist hunger, or to resist frenzy due to hunger or seeing/smelling blood.

                  ●●Blood Seeps Slowly
                  The Dragon’s undead body doesn’t demand as much Vitae to animate itself as do those of other, less enlightened Kindred. The player need spend only one Vitae for his character to wake for a number of nights equal to the vampire’s Resolve. So, a Kindred with a Resolve of 2 loses a Vitae every other night for rising.

                  ●●●Blood of Beasts
                  No matter what the vampire’s Blood Potency is, she can take sustenance from animals and humans.

                  ●●●●Empowered Blood
                  When the Kindred burns Vitae to enhance a physical attribute her knowledge of the Blood yields greater results. Attributes enhanced by burning Vitae receive a +4 instead of the usual +2.

                  ●●●●●Perspicacious Blood
                  The character gains three Vitae for every two Vitae she takes from a human, and receives double the Vitae consumed from Kindred or other supernatural vessels.


                  -Slag

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                  • #24
                    Well I prefer my version of course but I suppose yours fits better if you're converting an ongoing chronicle. Just a couple of things:

                    Originally posted by Slagheap View Post

                    ●●●●Empowered Blood
                    When the Kindred burns Vitae to enhance a physical attribute her knowledge of the Blood yields greater results. Attributes enhanced by burning Vitae receive a +4 instead of the usual +2.
                    I'm wondering, can a vampire with BP2+ spend more than 1 Vitae to activate Physical Intensity? If so, this could get kinda ridiculous. If not, this is pretty cool and definitely coil material.

                    Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                    ●●●●●Perspicacious Blood
                    The character gains three Vitae for every two Vitae she takes from a human, and receives double the Vitae consumed from Kindred or other supernatural vessels.
                    As much as I like this old power it goes to very weird places. Do you plan to do something about the spontaneous generation of vitae that occurs in Hungarian Marriages (when two vampires with this coil feed from each other) or you're cool with that?


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                    • #25
                      I know mathematically that spontaneous vitae generation could theoretically become a problem but I only have one character following this coil. I figure I'd just cross that bridge if I ever got to it (which I don't expect to). As to your other question, I think you can only use Physical Intensity to increase each physical stat once, so you wouldn't be able to add the +2 (or in this case +4) more than once to a given stat.

                      -Slag

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                        I know mathematically that spontaneous vitae generation could theoretically become a problem but I only have one character following this coil. I figure I'd just cross that bridge if I ever got to it (which I don't expect to). As to your other question, I think you can only use Physical Intensity to increase each physical stat once, so you wouldn't be able to add the +2 (or in this case +4) more than once to a given stat.

                        -Slag
                        Actually, you are able to spend all your vitae per turn on it, or healing wounds. At blood potency 10, this means that a character could add 30 dice to a physical action.

                        Mind you these only last for a turn, rather than a scene, and quickly deplete you if your using it all... and you won't have any to heal if necessary.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                          I know mathematically that spontaneous vitae generation could theoretically become a problem but I only have one character following this coil. I figure I'd just cross that bridge if I ever got to it (which I don't expect to).
                          You only need one vampire and one ghoul.

                          1. Drink 2 points of blood from the ghoul. Gain 3 vitae.
                          2. Give the ghoul 2 points of vitae to heal the 2 lethal damage. Net Profit 1 vitae.
                          3. Drink 2 points of blood from the ghoul. Gain 3 vitae. Total Vitae 4
                          4. Give the ghoul 2 points of vitae to heal the lethal damage. Net Profit 2 vitae.

                          Repeat forever.

                          You can do the same with 2 vampires even if only one of them has the coil.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                            I've written up an updated version of the Coil of Blood for use in my game. I incorporated the text from the old coil and added two new levels. I'm also planning a Scale that would allow the dragon to alchemically store blood that could avoid the diminished returns that usually apply to stored blood. Anywho, use it or don't, but this is probably what I will use in my game.

                            Coil of Blood
                            Vampires must feed on living blood to survive, and only the weakest of the Kindred can draw sustenance from the blood of animals. The Coil of Blood seeks to lift this requirement, allowing the Kindred to feed on their own terms, rather than forever be slaves to their hunger.

                            Resistance to Blood’s Hold
                            The Kindred’s path to a greater understanding of the Blood begins by mastering her hunger. The Dragon takes two extra dice to any roll to resist hunger, or to resist frenzy due to hunger or seeing/smelling blood.
                            I consider this very weak, I'd go for full on immunity to hunger frenzy.
                            Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                            ●●Blood Seeps Slowly
                            The Dragon’s undead body doesn’t demand as much Vitae to animate itself as do those of other, less enlightened Kindred. The player need spend only one Vitae for his character to wake for a number of nights equal to the vampire’s Resolve. So, a Kindred with a Resolve of 2 loses a Vitae every other night for rising.
                            Very weak. This basically gives you a number of "free vitae" that can only be used to wake up; even with resolve 10 you will still not have enough "free vitae" to be free from hunting. A coil costs 3 to 4 XP, for that you could buy Herd 3 or 4 which would give you 6 or 8 BP per week, 6 BP is equal to this coil with Resolve 7, Herd at 8 BP is better than any degree of this coil, as you not only pay you cost of living but you get one BP left over. I'd consider something like Resolve + Stamina nights or 1 vitae per week.
                            Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                            ●●●Blood of Beasts
                            No matter what the vampire’s Blood Potency is, she can take sustenance from animals and humans.
                            Great when you get to high blood potency, worthless before BP 3. I'd consider putting it as the 5th dot so it isn't a speedbump for low BP vampires.
                            Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                            ●●●●Empowered Blood
                            When the Kindred burns Vitae to enhance a physical attribute her knowledge of the Blood yields greater results. Attributes enhanced by burning Vitae receive a +4 instead of the usual +2.
                            Doesn't seem broken, just kind of boring.
                            Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                            ●●●●●Perspicacious Blood
                            The character gains three Vitae for every two Vitae she takes from a human, and receives double the Vitae consumed from Kindred or other supernatural vessels.
                            Infinite Blood generator.


                            Given that feeding on other vampires is a thing, I'd consider putting immunity to the blood bond and blood addiction in there somewehere.

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                            • #29
                              NineDaysDead, I like your replacement idea for the 5th dot. I think resistance to Blood Bond would be an excellent repacement. As for the Empowered Blood controversy, I reread Physical Intensity and, while I realize that the text is unclear, I don't think it is intended to be applicable multiple times.

                              -Slag

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Slagheap View Post
                                NineDaysDead, I like your replacement idea for the 5th dot. I think resistance to Blood Bond would be an excellent repacement. As for the Empowered Blood controversy, I reread Physical Intensity and, while I realize that the text is unclear, I don't think it is intended to be applicable multiple times.

                                -Slag
                                not multiple times, you just put more blood in it all at once. Claire confirmed that reading of the rules, and unless Rose goes "wait that's not what I meant at all"...


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