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  • #91
    Tossing in my guess, is somekind of Apex Beast.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
      Tossing in my guess, is somekind of Apex Beast.
      I'm not too interested in confirming or denying any of these ideas. But, I will say that Beast wasn't even a twinkle in our eyes when I wrote The Nameless. So while it COULD be an Apex Beast, that concept didn't exist at the time I came up with The Nameless.


      David A Hill Jr
      Freelance Writer
      Independent Game Designer

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      • #93
        Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

        I'm not too interested in confirming or denying any of these ideas. But, I will say that Beast wasn't even a twinkle in our eyes when I wrote The Nameless. So while it COULD be an Apex Beast, that concept didn't exist at the time I came up with The Nameless.
        Good to know, I'll take that into account.

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        • #94
          Just gonna put some stuff together and say that the Nameless deliberately attacked the Carthians and gave THEM the rules because the Carthians make rules into Rules.

          The Pit of the Nameless is such a great chapter and I've been itching to run it since I ordered B&S back in 2013, but I've never gotten the chance. It really emphasizes a "different" way of running Vampire, as opposed to the usual Kindred society bent. I think if I did run it though, I'd put way more focus on the difficulty of following the Nameless' rules and make it next to impossible to actually figure out anything about what the Nameless actually is (because the Nameless' rules are very strongly based around making it impossible to know what it is.)

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          • #95
            The most interesting thing about the Nameless, IMO, is that unlike the other bogymen which lurk in the CofD (like Abaddon from Berlin, or the Flayer from Orkney) is that it isn't really interested in killing. Where Abaddon is a mystery killer which seems to be connected to the strix in some way, and the Flayer steals the souls and skins of Beasts, the Nameless kills only when someone breaks its rules. As I've stated before in the thread, the fact that one of the rules is "don't kill each other" means that it needs unliving vampires in its territory. The way the rules operate also seem a bit more interesting once reading Secrets of the Covenants- it looks like there are different levels of enforcement over each of the rules- vampires are forbidden from leaving the city, but the Nameless doesn't mind if they merely get a toe out or something like that. Vampires are forbidden from searching after it, but it doesn't mind if they try to passively stumble upon it. However, if by pure chance there are more than 4 vampires in the same room- bang. All dead.

            In sort, the Nameless seems to only care about the rules as is- by word, not spirit. The Nameless needs vampires, but it doesn't really understand vampires. Unlike other mystery killers, it has an agenda- it works toward something, or at least gains something from the whole fucked up situation. I won't say that it is a Beast, simply because beasts has a much better understanding of other supernaturals- and even though they feed upon the pain and fear of others, they do see vampires as their family. The Nameless, however, is an alien to the vampire culture, as it doesn't really gets it. It has an end game, and it needs vampires to achieve it- but why and how, its a mystery.

            However, the Nameless is undoubtedly the Apex of the city. I must say I wonder how the other supernatural residents work in Montreal- after all, the rules are meant for vampires, and I imagine they are being forced only upon vampires, but I don't think it would like mages sniffing around the Cross or messing with its plans.. or maybe, as it follows the rules as written, perhaps that is the only loophole vampires may use to defeat it?


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            • #96
              The Nameless seems like nothing more than a MacGuffin for the rules of Montreal to me. I don't know how useful it is. What does it know? What can it do? What can't it do? I don't know.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                In sort, the Nameless seems to only care about the rules as is- by word, not spirit. The Nameless needs vampires, but it doesn't really understand vampires. Unlike other mystery killers, it has an agenda- it works toward something, or at least gains something from the whole fucked up situation. I won't say that it is a Beast, simply because beasts has a much better understanding of other supernaturals- and even though they feed upon the pain and fear of others, they do see vampires as their family. The Nameless, however, is an alien to the vampire culture, as it doesn't really gets it. It has an end game, and it needs vampires to achieve it- but why and how, its a mystery.

                However, the Nameless is undoubtedly the Apex of the city. I must say I wonder how the other supernatural residents work in Montreal- after all, the rules are meant for vampires, and I imagine they are being forced only upon vampires, but I don't think it would like mages sniffing around the Cross or messing with its plans.. or maybe, as it follows the rules as written, perhaps that is the only loophole vampires may use to defeat it?
                You're assuming that making a complexed mess to torment Vampire society isn't its goal.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Live Bait View Post

                  You're assuming that making a complexed mess to torment Vampire society isn't its goal.
                  why, yes of course.

                  There is a reason why I have mentioned the other bogymen as reference- as there are much easier ways to spread terror and mess with the vampire society than forcing the rules. Rules, in general, exist to have some sort of purpose, to create a certain state for certain reasons. Abaddon spreads as much terror as the Nameless in Berlin, and it doesn't invest as much effort as the Nameless. All it needs to do is kill vampires in ways other vampires would not feel safe anymore- and the Nameless seems to be much stronger than Abaddon. We are talking about a being which stopped Theban Sorcery for the whole city, which shows up and vanish as easily as it wish, and which can easily kill massive groups of vampires. It doesn't need the rules to spread terror- in fact, if terror was its only goal, than why giving the rules? why not leaving the vampires in the dark, letting them to discover it by themselves, forever not knowing what is right and what is wrong? Besides, most of the Nameless's rules are very practical- don't kill each other, stay away from the Cross, don't leave the city. It isn't just some way to spread fear- it sounds like a plan. It wants the kindred of Montreal to act in a certain way, and the rest of the plot hooks hint that it is only the first stage of some greater disaster waiting to come upon Montreal. There is something coming, and the Nameless is only a part of it.

                  Also- am I the only one who finds the events of Beast's Vancouver strangely similar to the ones of Montreal? I mean, something has taught the Makara how to shut down supernatural powers, which was used on vampires on the first time. Sure, the mechanism for stopping Theban Sorcery does not seem to be the one the Disciples use, and Montreal seems to be on the other side of Canada- but it is a strange coincidence.


                  My Homebrew Signature

                  "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

                  I now blog in here

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                  • #99
                    I found myself musing that The Nameless is a survivor of or a creation stemming from the farm. Even the frist 5 rules could be warped into the rules the guards had for the farm (just a guess mind you)
                    1.Don't let them kill each other
                    2.Don't put five or more together
                    3.Don't let them leave
                    4.Don't let them look for someone with a plan (Im stretching on 4 and 5 I know)
                    5.Don't let them impersonate the guards (obfuscate)

                    The Nameless might be someone who was broken (mentally) by the farm or could be something more supernatural; like a bunch of the dead vampires beasts combining into a monstrous amalgamation. Either way with the Farm mentioned ina good chunk of the Montreal setting's history I feel that there is a connection there.

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                    • It's been a while since there's been a post on the topic of the Nameless, but I thought some of you might be interested in a bit more local history.

                      Rue Saint Paul is obviously important, as we've gathered. Named after the guy who erected the cross, one of the first planned streets of the city, and an unofficial no-go zone. People had gotten that connection. But wouldn't it be interesting if there was the burning down of an entire hospital, a confession achieved under torture, and a mysterious disappearance all tied to that street?

                      Oh my, that would be far too coincidental! Well, strap in, because it's time to learn about the 1734 Burning of Montreal. The fire started on Rue Saint Paul, on the corner of what is now St-Sulpice, opposite the Hotel-Dieu. It quickly spread across the street to the hospital, burning it and over 40 homes on Rue St-Paul.

                      The next day, they arrest a black slave, Marie Joseph Angelique, based on a rumour that she had set the fire in her owner's attic along with her white lover. The two of them had recently failed to run away. They could not find the lover, Claude Thibault, and in fact he is never seen again. Angelique professes innocence throughout the trial. After a finding of guilt, Angelique was tortured in a manner that involved her legs being bound together, much like how the temporary prince in 1935 was found bound. She confesses under torture, but insists she acted alone, protecting the still disappeared Claude Thibault. She is hung, much like Sheridan was hung from the cross, and her body is burned, much like the burning of the Lancea Sanctum attempted gathering. A year later, they give up trying to find Claude Thibault.

                      In 1861, the rebuilt Hotel-Dieu moves to the very slopes of Mount Royal, on the side closest to the Cross.

                      My current running theory is that Angelique became a Geist, and the Nameless was created when a Strix tried to Synthesis on her host (perhaps the host was even her lover Claude Thibault! Unlikely though). Little did the Strix know that there was already an occupant! Three minds was altogether too much, and they merged into a single being, with only portions of the memories of each one. Being 3 beings, not one, it literally doesn't have name. But enough knowledge of the Strix to know that they're a terrible threat, perhaps knowledge of a plan of a group of Strix to do some terrible evil. Maybe the Nameless doesn't even understand the difference between Strix and Kindred? More likely I'd have Claude Thibault to be the body of the leader of the Strix, to add some real tragedy to the story. Perhaps he was actually Kindred originally, one with access to Obfuscate, explaining how he would still be around.

                      1734 is a few years before the Tsihstekeri massacre the French Kindred, which I calculate as being somewhere in the early 1740s, just to put this all in the timeline.
                      Last edited by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll; 08-15-2019, 11:24 PM.

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                      • I think most peoples approach is way to complicated, nWoD is mostly local intimate and tries to stay within it's own boundaries.

                        So lets look at it the Carthians are involved, there are laws and if you break them something supernatural happens. To me that reads as the laws are a (powerfull9 for of Carthian Law, and the Nameless is the mystical manifestation that enforces them.

                        That's my reading on it anyway ^^

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                        • That's certainly the most likely version by Occam's Razor, but does it make as good a chronicle? The advantage of having a complicated back-story is there are multiple lines of investigation for players to pick up on. Perhaps they begin by researching the Cross, perhaps by researching the Street, perhaps by talking to one of the 4 old families. There are multiple characters who they can investigate to pick up on threads, as well as multiple recent events to link things to. Very little risk of them getting stuck at a vital step, because there's always another route of investigation.

                          Secondly, it's more horrific I think to have a tragic monster than it is to have it merely be some sort of ascended Carthian realm. It may be mostly local intimate and within it's own boundaries, but nWoD is also a horror game. For the Nameless to work as a horror monster, it has to be just as scary when you know what it is as it is when you don't. The moment of realization of what the Nameless is should be a "oh, my god..." followed by a moment of contemplation for what that entails, not an "Oh that makes sense".

                          But if it works for your stories, than it just might mean you're a better ST than I. I don't think I could run a chronicle off of that, at least not the Montreal version. "Carthian laws have grown too powerful and the city lives in fear of them" is a good story, but I just think it'd be a bit of a disappointment from the Nameless' built-up. That's an issue with a lot of the Nameless tbh, is that the seed is so intriguing, any answer is gonna be partial and will disappoint someone.

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                          • Originally posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll View Post
                            That's certainly the most likely version by Occam's Razor, but does it make as good a chronicle? The advantage of having a complicated back-story is there are multiple lines of investigation for players to pick up on. Perhaps they begin by researching the Cross, perhaps by researching the Street, perhaps by talking to one of the 4 old families. There are multiple characters who they can investigate to pick up on threads, as well as multiple recent events to link things to. Very little risk of them getting stuck at a vital step, because there's always another route of investigation.
                            Which is still the case, is it not? You knowing that it's Carthian Law doesn't mean the PCs know. And they still have to uncover the conspiracy behind it all.

                            Also I find something to the effects of “we did it to ourselves”, “conspiracy gotten out of hand” etc way more horrific then some demon/entity/mcguffin thing you never heard of before. (Them wise I think of french revolution for kindred meets “police state” with the paranoia level amped up even more)

                            If you than want to bring in cosmic forces etc., there is still the question as to what Carthian Laws are in the first place and where they come from.

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                            • Well, I'm not going to say it's all the Carthians, but we do know that the Carthian Laws did have a previous form as the Hangman's Code (from I think Dark Eras or the Companion, it's the Gallow's Post advantage). So, the Nameless' rules probably follow the same wavelength as the Carthian Laws, but I'd hesitate to say its the Carthian Movement behind it.

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                              • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                                Seriously, the Nameless is one of the coolest things in B&S in my opinion (I mean, he feels like Requiem version of the Emissary of Nexus from Exalted) and after I've made thousands of theories about VII and the strixs, now my brain can't stop thinking about what the Nameless could be.. Because of his aesthetics (shadowy figure with glowing eyes) and his seemingly dislike toward Lancea et Sanctum, I think it is connected to the strixs somehow- so here are few theories my mind made up for him:
                                Funnny that you would associate those things to the Strix - in my head "shadow with glowing eyes" and "hate-on for the L&S" correlates quite naturally to the Khaibit & Cult of Set or instead the Camarilla's Cult of Augurs...

                                Must admit never really delved into the idea of the Nameless, as i guess that between Anyangás (independent ghoul families nebulous native american origin with a talent for Protean), Kanaima (cat/panther spirits akin to the strix but quite different interests, from Skinchangers, maybe connected to the Anyangás), Sightless Mother, Red Jack, Reapers (from Mythologies), Mnemovores, larvae hordes commanded by a Morbus apocalyptic cult, Melissidae connnected to Phanariot (from Mythologies) & Abyssal Spiders (from Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss), not to mention the "Nonatii/Neverborn" (pre-human ur-vampires, connected to the Blood Gods from Mythologies, modeled with some critters from Predators) in the Land of Worms - the PCs have weird beings aplenty to deal with in my version of Rio de Janeiro.

                                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                                c) The last Rule seems to be the weirdest of all the others- all of the Rules exist, more or less, on the personal level. Suddenly, there is a Rule that targets a specific thing- the Cross. The reason seems to be connected to the fact that the Cross is the trigger to this all plan- this is where the first Prince was killed, and by doing so Theban Sorcery stopped working. To me, it sounds like it was some of a ceremony- killing a "Prince" upon a "Royal Cross". In short, if one wants to allow Theban Sorcery to work again, or to destroy the complicate plan of the Nameless, it should involve the Mount Royal Cross.
                                A cross divides space in four parts - could that be relevant?
                                Last edited by Baaldam; 09-01-2019, 04:33 PM.

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