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Can hunters still be a thing to be feared?

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  • Can hunters still be a thing to be feared?

    In Masquerade, it seemed a lot of what Vampires were afraid of were hunters. Even without crazy tech or powers, coordinated humans could be a massive threat during the daytime.

    It feels like, since 2nd edition Requiem vampires are most powerful white wolf vampires we've seen yet, that it'd be very, very hard for mortal hunters to be much of a threat. Certainly they could take a vampire out in the right circumstances, but they aren't the type of thing to strike fear into Kindred society at large like they used to be.

    What do you think? How afraid are Requiem 2nd ed vampires of hunters? Do you think that fear or lack thereof is justified? Are hunters a big threat in your games?

  • #2
    All vampires still are out like a light during the day, can still be ambushed, can still be trapped in a burning down warehouse, lots of things to be afraid of. Not enough to be ALWAYS looking over your shoulder, but enough that a decent Hunter cell is still something to worry about and a poor one can still do some damage with some luck.

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    • #3
      I think you wish to portray vampires in a flat out head on fight. Hunters, without military support, NEVER go head on. They set traps. They arrange situations. And they never ever hunt alone. A vampire can gut a normal human if the human pulls out a gun and opens fire. However, that same vampire would be hard pressed when they attack at 9 am by setting off explosives around the vampire's haven and then have several snipers setup a block away ready to open fire on the vampire the second he clears himself out of the rubble. And when the vampire tries to escape underground, then the vampire encounters the other part of the trap...namely some homemade napalm that would spill on the vampire when he crosses a certain section.
      These things? Easily done by normal humans in today's world.
      Now, if those hunters also have some backing or some supernatural support? Then the vampire is really screwed. So, should hunters be feared? YES! You should never ever disregard two things: humanity's tendency to unite against a common threat and humanity's ability to kill something when they really really really want to kill something.

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      • #4
        Well apparently in 2e there are now ways in which younger or very powerful vampires can survive direct sunlight exposure for short periods of time. A strong enough willpower can allow the vampire to remain active during the day, as well as various Disciplines, such as the Coils of the Dragon.

        Pretty much sunlight was one of Humanity's biggest advantages, but now that vamps have a partial resistance to it, that sort of tips the scales, since one well trained vampire is equal to an entire squad of humans.

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        • #5
          If you're able to walk about in the sun during the day, you're either a high humanity, low blood potency Kindred or an Ordo Dracul Kindred with a lot of facility in the Coil of the Ascendant. The former is unlikely to have the capability to make him significantly stronger than humans in this situation, and might also be disadvantaged by Lethargy. The latter was probably going to kill them anyway unless they prepared for it.

          Let's also not forget the two other really important things: Fire and numbers.

          Hunters are absolutely as dangerous as they ever were.


          I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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          • #6
            It depends on the vampire. Four hunters with handguns can certainly kill a vampire if they catch it off guard and it isn't especially combat focused. My preferred method is actually large vehicle drive bys. A SUV with five guys using SMGs can tear an unaware vampire to shreads.

            By that same token if the vampire has the right powers even fire doesn't work properly. Vampires with middle range Resilence can laugh off flamethrowers long enough to beat the wielder senseless. In my games I like to go with guerilla hunters. Since all weapons or of more or less equal effect against kindred these hunters travel in groups and use mundane weaponry (bats, boards, pipes, etc.) and try to jump a vampire as a mob to overwhelm them.

            Like alot of things in World of Darkness it really all depends on circumstances.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              Well apparently in 2e there are now ways in which younger or very powerful vampires can survive direct sunlight exposure for short periods of time. A strong enough willpower can allow the vampire to remain active during the day, as well as various Disciplines, such as the Coils of the Dragon.
              Actually, it's based on Humanity and Blood Potency. Humanity determines how much damage you take from sunlight and Blood Potency determines the intervals at which you take the damage. Willpower doesn't really factor into it, and the Coil of the Ascendant works by temporarily lowering your effective Blood Potency. So only young vampires or those with a specific power can be active during the day, and even then they gain the Lethargic condition and are at real risk of just passing out. They won't fall asleep in the sunlight, but falling asleep during the day, outside of your Haven is still extremely dangerous.

              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              Pretty much sunlight was one of Humanity's biggest advantages, but now that vamps have a partial resistance to it, that sort of tips the scales, since one well trained vampire is equal to an entire squad of humans.
              It's still one of their biggest advantages. And even without it, vampires still have a number of vulnerabilities that can be exploited. Stakes, fire, stakes on fire, and the fact that humans work together very well and vampires are usually at each other's throats all the time (even if they like to pretend they're not).


              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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              • #8
                Even if vampires aren't entirely at each others throats, they're unlikely to share a haven unless they're particularly close. And the vampires who can stand a few moments of daylight still aren't exactly laying out on the beach, getting a tan while casually backhanding the heads off oncoming mortals.

                Sunlight and fire do aggravated damage, fire being probably one of the earliest technologies known to mankind. A stake through the heart can paralyze them, banes can be researched to cause more damage or hinder them in other ways, they rely on blood that can be spiked or simply taken away, their ghouls are great weak points.

                Vampires are powerful, but they are hardly unassailable, which is why they make an effort to hide themselves.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  Even if vampires aren't entirely at each others throats, they're unlikely to share a haven unless they're particularly close. And the vampires who can stand a few moments of daylight still aren't exactly laying out on the beach, getting a tan while casually backhanding the heads off oncoming mortals.

                  Sunlight and fire do aggravated damage, fire being probably one of the earliest technologies known to mankind. A stake through the heart can paralyze them, banes can be researched to cause more damage or hinder them in other ways, they rely on blood that can be spiked or simply taken away, their ghouls are great weak points.

                  Vampires are powerful, but they are hardly unassailable, which is why they make an effort to hide themselves.
                  Sunlight only does aggravated damage to lower humanity scores.

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                  • #10
                    And if they have Resilience they can soak fire damage, but if you're talking about a high humanity elder of the Ordo Dracul who can ignore sunlight and fire you're just going to have to have smarter hunters with weapons other than the sun and torches.

                    Last edited by nofather; 05-08-2015, 09:21 PM.

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                    • #11
                      There was a play-test with an elder against a handful of SWAT and it was a challenge for the vampire. Multiple opponents mitigate singularly strong opponents. I don't think vampires worry much about a few hunters. The hunters would have to be very determined and patient. A dozen hunters would be a problem to deal with. A handful that come prepared would as well. I think most vampires try to avoid the notice of hunters so that is where the fear comes into play. Hunters do make nice direct opponents.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                        Multiple opponents mitigate singularly strong opponents.
                        This is the crux of it. Especially with the rarity of multiple attacks in 2ed, the vampire can at best hope to kill or otherwise disable 1 hunter in a round. In the meantime, the vampire is absorbing possibly hundreds of bullets from auto fire weapons. Even doing bashing damage, that could quickly add up.

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                        • #13
                          Let's also keep in mind that the scenarios Diggs is talking about is a SWAT Team going in blind. Hunters are pretty different beasts because they aren't just prepared, they're prepared to hunt monsters, and if they're fighting on "even ground" they're not very good hunters to begin with. They always should be trying to tilt the odds in their favor.


                          I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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                          • #14
                            The minimum a lone hunter needs to end a vampire is a book of matches and an address.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nofather View Post
                              Even if vampires aren't entirely at each others throats, they're unlikely to share a haven unless they're particularly close.
                              Don't cotories share havens? Thought it was fairly common.

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