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  • Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Vampire

    I can't believe no one's created one of these for Vampire yet, of all games. Well, I know I'm constantly flooded with simple questions, so let's do this! I'm creating this thread with the assumption that questions will be about VtR2e unless otherwise noted.

    1)The Strix's Breath Drinking ability says that soulless victims create no Vitae - is that in general, or just related to the Breath Drinking?

    2) Just to fully clarify, if a character wants to Lash Out to break an effect like Awe or Dread Presence , how exactly does it work? Do you need to pick a Kindred target that you think is doing it and run through the normal rules, or do you somehow lash out at the effect itself?

    I could have sworn I had more questions for this outing. Oh well, I'll probably remember them in time and post them here later. In the meantime, ask and answer any questions you see fit!


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    - Perils of the Path - Other homebrew threads linked in the OP!

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  • #2
    You can lash out against another kindred or their effect. You don't need to guess who you need to lash out against to break awe, the power broadcasts to everyone in radius pay attention to me because I'm the most important person here. If they're using dread presence to have people deliberately avoid the user, once again it's a situation where the power's usage tells you who to target. It's also questionable as to whether or not you could target them directly in that scenario since you can't spend willpower to attack them, only defend. Ditto with higher level Majesty effects (Then you get into whether or not initiating a predatory aura showdown constitutes an attack when it's specifically listed as a defense mechanism against discipline use.) You can also target the aura in order to be immune, or lash out and break all the obfuscate effects on a vampire if you find yourself in a scenario where you suspect obfuscate is being used because you're tracking the obfuscated person or forced to interact with another obfuscated object or place.

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    • #3
      What is the general agreement about different powers that grant Damage Bonuses? I once saw a house rule that said the following:

      "Every point of Damage Bonus above 5 becomes one point of Armor Piercing. Every 1/1 of Armor above 5/5 becomes one point of Anti-Armor Piercing."

      There's also the notion that only the highest among the Damage Bonuses is applied.

      Let's suppose I use Protean to get claws with +2L and Armor Piercing 2, and then I spend 1 Vitae to add my Vigor 5. If I followed the first rule, my claws would have +5L and Armor Piercing 4. If I followed the second rule, my claws would have +5L and Armor Piercing 2.

      Now let's suppose I also have the Claws Of The Unholy Merit. My claws deal +0A and bypass all Armor that isn't Resilience. Should I fight a vampire with Resilience, do I still have the Armor Piercing 2 that Protean gives? Can I spend 1 Vitae to add my Vigor 5 on top of that, resulting in claws with +5A and Armor Piercing 2? What about supernatural Armors that aren't Resilience? A Mage with Death 2 in 2ED can downgrade damage as if he was a vampire. Would a Werewolf in Gauru form downgrade the Claws Of The Unholy into lethal?

      Do the Demonic Form abilities and Gadgets of the Unchained deal lethal or bashing damage to vampires? How about a changeling with the Lethal Mien Merit? Is Gauru the only werewolf form that deals lethal to vampires? What criteria do people use to detetmine if a vampire will downgrade a supernatural attack that is normally lethal into bashing?


      "Fate is a cruel jester with a finely developed sense of irony." - Sir Night as portrayed by Leliel, The Horror Recognition Guide

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      • #4
        Would it be in-character for the Ordo Dracul to develop a Coil that gives benefits for drinking the blood or equivalent of other supernaturals? The Unnatural Affinity Merit simply lets you get Vitae from the blood of other supernaturals, so it might be a pre-requisite for that Coil.

        For example, drinking Beast blood could give bonuses to Protean, Nightmare and Lashing Out with the Monstrous Beast.


        "Fate is a cruel jester with a finely developed sense of irony." - Sir Night as portrayed by Leliel, The Horror Recognition Guide

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kirby Jerusalem View Post
          1)The Strix's Breath Drinking ability says that soulless victims create no Vitae - is that in general, or just related to the Breath Drinking?
          I think that's just for Breath Drinking.

          Originally posted by Kirby Jerusalem View Post
          2) Just to fully clarify, if a character wants to Lash Out to break an effect like Awe or Dread Presence , how exactly does it work? Do you need to pick a Kindred target that you think is doing it and run through the normal rules, or do you somehow lash out at the effect itself?
          If you have reason to suspect you're being affected by a power like Awe or Dread Presence (opinions differ on exactly how easy this should be to figure out, but let's say you notice that the Daeva's rivals are treating him more respectfully than usual, or you find yourself unnerved by a Nos and no one else seems disturbed by the fact that the walls are melting), you just Lash Out against the person you suspect is responsible using the normal rules, and if you win, the power stops affecting you.


          Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
          What is the general agreement about different powers that grant Damage Bonuses? I once saw a house rule that said the following:

          "Every point of Damage Bonus above 5 becomes one point of Armor Piercing. Every 1/1 of Armor above 5/5 becomes one point of Anti-Armor Piercing."

          There's also the notion that only the highest among the Damage Bonuses is applied.

          Let's suppose I use Protean to get claws with +2L and Armor Piercing 2, and then I spend 1 Vitae to add my Vigor 5. If I followed the first rule, my claws would have +5L and Armor Piercing 4. If I followed the second rule, my claws would have +5L and Armor Piercing 2.
          Those are definitely both house rules. By RAW, damage bonuses stack, and there is no cap on them. But if your group finds that to be a problem, either of these house rules seem like decent alternatives to RAW.

          Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
          Now let's suppose I also have the Claws Of The Unholy Merit. My claws deal +0A and bypass all Armor that isn't Resilience. Should I fight a vampire with Resilience, do I still have the Armor Piercing 2 that Protean gives? Can I spend 1 Vitae to add my Vigor 5 on top of that, resulting in claws with +5A and Armor Piercing 2? What about supernatural Armors that aren't Resilience? A Mage with Death 2 in 2ED can downgrade damage as if he was a vampire. Would a Werewolf in Gauru form downgrade the Claws Of The Unholy into lethal?
          Resilience isn't armor, it reduces damage "like armor", so the AP2 is redundant with the fact that Claws of the Unholy bypass all armor. If you spend a Vitae to add Vigor to damage, yes, the full amount will be dealt as Aggravated. Supernatural armor other than Resilience is getting into crossover territory, so you'll probably have to answer that for yourself. I would say that Death mage armor works like vampire damage reduction, it would not reduce damage from Claws of the Unholy because it's a supernatural source of damage. As for werewolf damage reduction, I'd personally use David H.'s rule of thumb and say if the player spent experience to be able to do agg, it shouldn't be reduced.

          Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
          Do the Demonic Form abilities and Gadgets of the Unchained deal lethal or bashing damage to vampires? How about a changeling with the Lethal Mien Merit? Is Gauru the only werewolf form that deals lethal to vampires? What criteria do people use to detetmine if a vampire will downgrade a supernatural attack that is normally lethal into bashing?
          My rules for vampire damage reduction are:
          • If it's a mundane source of damage, it gets downgraded.
          • If it's a supernatural power that creates a mundane source of damage like a weapon (Protean 2 is a good example), it gets downgraded.
          • If it's a supernatural power that creates a mundane source of damage like a weapon and it says that it bypasses supernatural resistances or that it does a certain kind of damage to vampires, it does not get downgraded (Protean 4 and werewolf bites are both good examples).
          • If it's a supernatural power that does direct damage, it does not get downgraded (Nightmare 5 is a good example)
          • If it's a supernatural power in a vampire book, it does not get downgraded, because it's written with the assumption that it'll primarily be used against other vampires.
          • If it's an ability that a player spent experience on, it probably shouldn't get downgraded unless there's a very good reason for it to be.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
            Would it be in-character for the Ordo Dracul to develop a Coil that gives benefits for drinking the blood or equivalent of other supernaturals? The Unnatural Affinity Merit simply lets you get Vitae from the blood of other supernaturals, so it might be a pre-requisite for that Coil.

            For example, drinking Beast blood could give bonuses to Protean, Nightmare and Lashing Out with the Monstrous Beast.
            ​This seems like something that a custom Scales from the Mystery of the Voivode(or Zinirtra) can do.
            I don't know how hard is to create a new Coil in 2nd edition, maybe Secrets of the Covenants can help with this, but on my point of view, creating an entirely new Coil is something really hard and time consuming. (Too much tests and stuff)


            Check my homebrews:
            Vampire Bloodlines: Kiasyd
            Mage Legacies: Infernal Ones, Daoine

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
              Is Gauru the only werewolf form that deals lethal to vampires?
              Hell no. The book says they deal lethal to vamps in hishu, when their bites should only do bashing to anything else.

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              • #8
                Do you allow modifiers such as Striking Looks to play a roll in Hunting Rolls? As I recall they're abstractions anyway.

                What modifiers do you use most often on Hunting Rolls? Do you incentivize merits like Hunting Grounds or Herd at all?


                Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kirby Jerusalem View Post
                  I can't believe no one's created one of these for Vampire yet, of all games.
                  Never really needed them before.

                  Originally posted by Kirby Jerusalem View Post
                  1)The Strix's Breath Drinking ability says that soulless victims create no Vitae - is that in general, or just related to the Breath Drinking?
                  Breath Drinking. It ties into the whole idea that your breath contains your soul. So, if you're soulless, there's nothing for the breath to carry out, and for the Strix to tap into to drink. Blood born vitae taps directly into life energy in a different way - its actually a more stable way of draining life energy that even other supernaturals can deal with.

                  2) Just to fully clarify, if a character wants to Lash Out to break an effect like Awe or Dread Presence , how exactly does it work? Do you need to pick a Kindred target that you think is doing it and run through the normal rules, or do you somehow lash out at the effect itself?
                  You have to target the vampire in question. When you Lash Out, its not an entirely internal, psychic ability you can use while sitting down sipping a mandrake wine and watching something on your phone. There's accompanying physical actions. "To lash out, the vampire must take a simple action appropriate to the aspect of predator used. A monstrous Beast growls, threatens, gnashes teeth, or calls to action. A seductive Beast sidles up to the prey, whispers beautiful lies, or gives a telling gaze from across the crowd. A competitive Beast draws a line in the sand, announces terms, or takes the role of mouse in a chase."

                  You kind of need someone to do that growling, whispering, and daring to. There might be exceptions that make sense story wise, but generally speaking you need to have a target in mind.


                  Originally posted by GottaGoFeast View Post
                  My claws deal +0A and bypass all Armor that isn't Resilience. Should I fight a vampire with Resilience, do I still have the Armor Piercing 2 that Protean gives?
                  Resilience isn't actually armor. Armor Piercing does not apply to Resilience. In some ways Resilience does act like armor, but in other ways, it doesn't. The wording in the book isnt' the best.

                  In general, from the sounds of it, you have mundane armor that works like normal. You get 2/2 (or whatever), which doesn't stack with other sources that grant armor (unless the ability specifically says it does). So, you can wear a flak jacket and have Iron Body as a vampire, but only the higher rating applies. This is the only kind of armor that Armor Piercing works against. Then, you have magical "armors" that work like damage reduction - a vampire unliving body and Resilience are two kinds. One downgrades damage, and one reduces damage taken. You need specific abilities that bypass them, or they work as normal.

                  What about supernatural Armors that aren't Resilience? A Mage with Death 2 in 2ED can downgrade damage as if he was a vampire. Would a Werewolf in Gauru form downgrade the Claws Of The Unholy into lethal?
                  As with all other crossover questions, you have to ask your ST. There's no definitive answer. Personally, I allow swapping out power-equivalents. Werewolves can't downgrade damage naturally, even from regular Protean claws. If there's a power that can, then that would be a Clash of Wills.

                  Do the Demonic Form abilities and Gadgets of the Unchained deal lethal or bashing damage to vampires? How about a changeling with the Lethal Mien Merit?
                  Bashing. Touched by magic doesn't automatically bypass the damage reduction trait of vampries. Of course, that's assuming that CtL will have a Lethal Mien merit in 2e - given how kiths work now, I'm actually more inclined to think that there won't be.

                  Is Gauru the only werewolf form that deals lethal to vampires?
                  Any form's bite attack deals lethal to vampires, even the Hishu / human form. Claw attacks from all five forms still deal bashing, even in Gauru.

                  What criteria do people use to detetmine if a vampire will downgrade a supernatural attack that is normally lethal into bashing?
                  I ask the following question - "Is it similar to vampire abilities that deal lethal damage to vampires?" Vampires can deal lethal to each other using bite attacks and pure magic attacks (some blood rituals). They can also deal lethal damage with abilities that are specifically designed to deal lethal to each other (Kindred Dueling FS, blood scourge, Protean 4 claws).

                  This is actually consistant with how werewolves deal damage to vampires. Bite attacks bypass the damage reduction, natural claws don't, and direct attack Gifts are deadly. Rare, but deadly.

                  So, if you have a predator-themed changeling or Beast that happens to use a bite attack on a vampire? I would totally say lethal.
                  Last edited by MCN; 01-29-2016, 11:23 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                    Do you allow modifiers such as Striking Looks to play a roll in Hunting Rolls? As I recall they're abstractions anyway.
                    Depends on the approach and the nature of the Striking Looks merit, but if it feels appropriate, yes. Same for other Merit based modifiers and even equipment.

                    Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                    What modifiers do you use most often on Hunting Rolls? Do you incentivize merits like Hunting Grounds or Herd at all?
                    I use Districts and Sites from Damnation City, and apply modifiers to feeding rolls based on the District. I absolutely encourage Hunting Grounds and Herd. Herd is especially useful because the free Vitae allowance means you don't have to hunt as often just to stay active. The dice bonus from Hunting Grounds is often not needed, but adding your Hunting Grounds dots to starting Vitae rolls is well worth the exp.
                    Last edited by Charlaquin; 01-29-2016, 11:18 AM.


                    Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                    My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                      Do you allow modifiers such as Striking Looks to play a roll in Hunting Rolls? As I recall they're abstractions anyway.
                      Yes, as well as any other appropriate equipment modifier.

                      What modifiers do you use most often on Hunting Rolls?
                      Other than the suggested modifier table? Whatever the players come up with. I reward creativity. Also, Majesty is popular for the daeva. Since it directly increases Presence, I don't consider it to need a vitae to "activate" and consider it part of the usual roll.

                      Do you incentivize merits like Hunting Grounds or Herd at all?
                      Hunting Grounds is highly useful for "starting vitae" rolls, which I use fairly frequently. Herd is pretty popular as well, considering that hunting rolls tend to take up a significant amount of time. Hunting takes an hour by default. Maybe two, after travel time and everything. My games tend to be a bit rushed in the early evening, then more relaxed as the night progresses. So, you don't have time for leisurely feeding in the beginning all the time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MCN View Post
                        sipping a mandrake wine
                        That reminds me- have Mandragoa explicitly survived the edition change, or are they in "old rules & fluff that aren't directly contradicted are fair game to re-implement" territory?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hastur00 View Post

                          That reminds me- have Mandragoa explicitly survived the edition change, or are they in "old rules & fluff that aren't directly contradicted are fair game to re-implement" territory?
                          I believe they made the jump in the Secrets of the Covenants Merits for the Circle of the Crone.

                          ex:

                          Originally posted by Secrets of the Covenants Open Development, Circle of the Crone
                          Mandragora Garden (• to •••••)

                          Prerequisites: Safe Place (same level), Crúac •
                          Your character maintains a garden of ghouled plants. They behave [RB4] on their own in slow, almost imperceptible fashion. As well, they act as a vector for your character’s Crúac.

                          Effect: Your character’s rating in Mandragora Garden determines the rough size, which must correspond with an equal or greater Safe Place. An Acolyte can use mandragora she’s created herself as if they were her own hands and eyes for the purposes of Crúac rituals. This allows her to use her rituals at a distance. If she’s standing amidst her garden, she may add her Mandragora Garden dots to any Crúac ritual rolls. Additionally, the Acolyte may cast rituals on her garden that would normally last a scene. The magic of the garden sustains these rituals indefinitely. She may have a number of such rituals active equal to her dots in this Merit.

                          While she must feed her garden one Vitae per month equal to her dots in Mandragora Garden, the garden will produce twice that quantity in sap, nectar, or other fluids which serve as animal blood, on which Kindred may feed.

                          Lastly, because of the intimate association a vampire must keep with such a garden, it becomes an extension of her body. Anyone attacking or otherwise harming the garden provokes her to frenzy as if they attacked her directly.

                          Note: A vampire’s mandragora take on qualities of her blood. They will bear fruit symbolic of her clan, for example.[RB5] If the character has a Crúac style (see p. XX), this will show up in her plants.
                          Now, whether one considers this the only application of Mandragora is really up to you. I imagine that anybody can ghoul plants, but that this merit represents the special connection/training required for one to use them in this fashion for blood sorcery.
                          Last edited by Leetsepeak; 01-29-2016, 02:15 PM.


                          Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

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                          • #14
                            Do ghouls count as human for the purpose of the nosferatu clan curse?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                              Now, whether one considers this the only application of Mandragora is really up to you. I imagine that anybody can ghoul plants, but that this merit represents the special connection/training required for one to use them in this fashion for blood sorcery.
                              The merit includes making sap, wine, etc that can be drank. Isn't that pretty much the main use of a mandrake garden? What else is there?

                              Originally posted by Elderand View Post
                              Do ghouls count as human for the purpose of the nosferatu clan curse?
                              Ghouls are neither Kindred, nor are they necessarily Touchstones. They're still human enough that they have the same human cues that vamipres are detached about reading. So, I would say yes. Seems like the kind of thing they would include in that list if not.
                              Last edited by MCN; 01-29-2016, 04:04 PM.

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