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  • Originally posted by Malus View Post

    Nevermind the actual difficulties of striking eye contact with a frenzied individual bent of ripping you apart with their bare claws.
    Rose said that the eyes contact is more a flavor statement and that it's part of the standard dominate roll.
    Last edited by Marcus; 11-09-2017, 08:23 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Marcus View Post

      Rose said that the eyes contact is more a flavor statement and that it's part of the standard dominate roll.
      Then it should be penalized by say, Defense.

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      • Originally posted by Malus View Post

        Then it should be penalized by say, Defense.

        How about it's penalized by a contested roll of a resistance attribute and powerstat? Like it is already.
        What have defense with it to do? You mean you don't look you opponent in the face in a fight and that should be portrayed by defense?

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        • Originally posted by Malus View Post

          Then it should be penalized by say, Defense.
          I really don't understand why it should.

          Wits in the roll stands for the purpose to meet the gaze at the right moment. You are not shooting laser beams from your eyes (that should be with no defense penality as well xD)

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          • Grapple:

            Hi guys, trying grapple in my Vampire Chronicle, i've found some problems about the use of grapple maneuvers.

            1) Is trying to get in grapple an opponent considered an attack? Can I , to make an example , do it with the second attack granted by Street Fighting 5?

            2) Some merits ( such as Police Tactics 1) give a bonus if you choose to use one specific maneuver. The problem is : you choose the maneuver after rolling the dices. To use the bonus must i declare wich maneuver i use before i roll or must i add some dices after the main roll is done?

            3) Is There a difference between who resists an Overpower Maneuver and who makes the same? If not wich is the sense of Grappling 1?

            4) If during the highest initiative of the two I break the grapple and I have the lowest initiative, do i get to act in my initiative level?

            5) Most importantly, in order to use a power that does not require to move to be used( as Majesty or Nightmare) do I need to win a grapple maneuver to succeed?
            Must I give up resisting the grapple (usually getting a lot of damage) to use the power?


            Thank you for you answers ! Bye

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            • Originally posted by strikeforce1 View Post
              Grapple:

              Hi guys, trying grapple in my Vampire Chronicle, i've found some problems about the use of grapple maneuvers.

              1) Is trying to get in grapple an opponent considered an attack? Can I , to make an example , do it with the second attack granted by Street Fighting 5?

              2) Some merits ( such as Police Tactics 1) give a bonus if you choose to use one specific maneuver. The problem is : you choose the maneuver after rolling the dices. To use the bonus must i declare wich maneuver i use before i roll or must i add some dices after the main roll is done?

              3) Is There a difference between who resists an Overpower Maneuver and who makes the same? If not wich is the sense of Grappling 1?

              4) If during the highest initiative of the two I break the grapple and I have the lowest initiative, do i get to act in my initiative level?

              5) Most importantly, in order to use a power that does not require to move to be used( as Majesty or Nightmare) do I need to win a grapple maneuver to succeed?
              Must I give up resisting the grapple (usually getting a lot of damage) to use the power?


              Thank you for you answers ! Bye
              1) yes, grapple is an attack, in fact you subtract defense to your grapple roll.

              2) you choose it first to roll. As soon as your initiative comes

              3) don't know.

              4) no. Your action in that turn IS to break the grapple. In the next turn you will act again at your own initiative.

              5) no you don't need to win the grapple to use mental discipline but yes you should give up resisting it. With the logical exception of Dominate. If someone is taking you from.behind you can't meet his gaze. But it's not ruled, just up to the storyteller.

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              • Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                4) no. Your action in that turn IS to break the grapple. In the next turn you will act again at your own initiative.
                Page 89 in CoD rulebook
                "Break Free from the grapple. The character throws off his opponent; they’re both no longer grappling. Succeeding at this move is a reflexive action, so the character can take another action immediately afterwards.
                So I believe the one that manages to break the grapple can do their action (but no movement?), the loser loses their turn, for that round. Seems like the winner has their action at that initiative point for that round, but goes back to their normal initiative on later rounds.

                Also with an exceptional success I think you can do the damage maneuver, then use break free, then attack with a normal attack.
                Last edited by Cainite; 11-09-2017, 03:34 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Cainite View Post

                  Page 89 in CoD rulebook

                  So I believe the one that manages to break the grapple can do their action (but no movement?), the loser loses their turn, for that round. Seems like the winner has their action at that initiative point for that round, but goes back to their normal initiative on later rounds.

                  Also with an exceptional success I think you can do the damage maneuver, then use break free, then attack with a normal attack.

                  oh I missed this. Thanks

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                  • Originally posted by Cainite View Post
                    Also with an exceptional success I think you can do the damage maneuver, then use break free, then attack with a normal attack.
                    You can still only take one instant action per turn. The damage maneuver is an instant action, so you could not then take an attack action if breaking out on the exceptional success (unless you have fighting style which lets you make a Reflexive attack of some sort.)

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                    • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      That is a function of the Enthralled Condition, which Idol interacts with but does not directly cause just by activating Awe and Idol in a room full of unprimed people.

                      The base effect of Idol without respect to the Conditions applied by subsidiary powers is "it is incredibly difficult for characters to act against the vampire due to how untouchably superior she seems."

                      Using Idol allows you to accelerate multiple people from neutral to an abbreviated version of Enthralled for cheap, but on its own Idol does not do anything other than make the vampire feel fascinating, forgivable, and important.
                      So you're saying that you would not try to save someone who is awesome fascinating or important? Someone who feel is just utterly divine? I know that If I saw someone about to be attacked. Even if I didn't know them or were under some crazy mind control power... I would try to help them. Especially if the Idol user said, "Help me" it would be incredibly difficult to act against that person's desire for help.. As you said.


                      Originally posted by Malus View Post

                      Then it should be penalized by say, Defense.
                      There is a huge thread about eye contact during the middle of a fight. It's possible, there is no negative. It is what it is. To recap, every good fighter watches the other's eyes instead of hands or feet.
                      Last edited by Vitalis; 11-10-2017, 02:01 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Vitalis

                        To recap, every good fighter watches the other's eyes instead of hands or feet.
                        A) That's some bullshit. B) it's physically impossible when you're doing something like grappling or chewing their throats off.

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                        • Originally posted by Vitalis View Post

                          So you're saying that you would not try to save someone who is awesome fascinating or important? Someone who feel is just utterly divine? I know that If I saw someone about to be attacked. Even if I didn't know them or were under some crazy mind control power... I would try to help them. Especially if the Idol user said, "Help me" it would be incredibly difficult to act against that person's desire for help.. As you said.
                          Again: The things you are talking about are represented by the way Idol interacts with the intermediate levels of Majesty. Its baseline utility is giving you space to work the room and establish the chain of Conditions that correspond to that utter fanatical loyalty. An extra five dice on a roll to tell people to help you does not translate to "the Idol asked me for help and I would willingly court death for their favor" on its own.


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • Dominate does not require a vampire to look at someone's eyes. It requires someone to look at the vampire's eyes. There is a penalty to avoid looking at someone's eyes while attacking or defending. Obviously, fighting while distracted will give a penalty. There is no penalty to make eye contact while defending. Looking at someone attacking you is going to be standard. It still doesn't matter for Dominate since eye contact is defined as someone looking at the vampire's eyes. There would be some grapple moves that could prevent a Dominate roll altogether if they are already in place before a Dominate attempt can begin.

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                            • Originally posted by Vitalis View Post

                              So you're saying that you would not try to save someone who is awesome fascinating or important? Someone who feel is just utterly divine? I know that If I saw someone about to be attacked. Even if I didn't know them or were under some crazy mind control power... I would try to help them. Especially if the Idol user said, "Help me" it would be incredibly difficult to act against that person's desire for help.. As you said.
                              I think the best argument against this is the lack of a condition, 2nd edition gives conditions for everything so if one is not provided I would assume that there is no intent for such an interpretation of the rules.

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                              • Originally posted by Malus View Post

                                A) That's some bullshit. B) it's physically impossible when you're doing something like grappling or chewing their throats off.

                                Watch an MMA fight or a boxing fight. they do not stare at hands and feet. So I am not sure why you think that's bullshit? Take some Tae Kwon Do classes or something. They literally teach you to watch your opponent's eyes... Second. Yes. If you are already grappled or pinned or whatever, you're right you can't make eye contact, The Ruling in the other thread was that you did not get a penalty to Dominate while in combat. Not because you're distracted or anything... otherwise every fight with multiple people would give you a negative for being distracted with the other attackers...



                                Live Bait There are plenty of things that don't have conditions. Frenzy, Blush of Life. Any of the 5th dot powers. Just because it's not listed doesn't mean you dont use common sense and close reading to interpret the intentions of the power. Like the whole ghoul thing and Devotions. It wasn't listed that they could but with some logic and common sense you could figure out it was intended. Then a developer dove in and confirmed it. If an almighty divine power was in the room asking for help because some psycho frenzied monster was trying to kill it... You help it. Or you roll Resolve+BP - 5 to go against the wishes of the vampire. Because NOT helping it is CAUSING HARM. and as we know Idol says we can't cause them harm without Resolve+BP - 5.
                                Last edited by Vitalis; 11-10-2017, 09:31 PM.

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