Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Vampire

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question - Safest way for a vampire to approach and speak with a Hunter without giving self away? Disciplines not to use? Bring a ghoul?

    Comment


    • Poessesion would probaly be the very best way to do so in safety, thus even if the hunters kill him your body will be safe, like you care about a random mortal off the street!

      Another way is Surgical heart removal.


      Comment


      • Originally posted by mikerand View Post
        Question - Safest way for a vampire to approach and speak with a Hunter without giving self away? Disciplines not to use? Bring a ghoul?
        Will depend heavily on your Humanity, the focus of the hunter in question, the reason for the meeting, the meaning of "giving yourself away," and the timeframe you have to work with. Assuming you're specifically aiming to keep a lid on the fangs and assuming neither immediate nor inessential levels of urgency…

        Are you a calloused elder with an ashen complexion and a dim grasp of social mores, and drawing from Lordly stock besides? Use a go-between who knows how to broach the topic at hand and delegate from there.

        Are you a fresh young neonate Shadow who's still keeping up with the times and paid religious attention to vampiric best practices? Going in person with the Blush and a beginner's grasp of Obfuscate should do you right as long as you keep the ball rolling in the right direction.

        Are you a Serpent who's been around the block and kept up appearances around town for sixty years? Make sure your tracks are covered, throw together a pseudonym, and arrange the meeting through a soon-to-be-mutual acquaintance in a moderately comfortable environment.

        We may need more information to go off of.

        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
        Poessesion would probaly be the very best way to do so in safety, thus even if the hunters kill him your body will be safe, like you care about a random mortal off the street!
        I feel as though the capstone power of a clan-specific Discipline in the expectation that discovery will result in murder is both not useful general advice for this scenario and presupposing the failure of its explicit purpose — "Hunters might murder you for being a vampire" is a thing that is presumably already accounted for in the question of "How do I approach a hunter as a vampire without giving myself away?"


        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Satchel View Post

          I feel as though the capstone power of a clan-specific Discipline in the expectation that discovery will result in murder is both not useful general advice for this scenario and presupposing the failure of its explicit purpose — "Hunters might murder you for being a vampire" is a thing that is presumably already accounted for in the question of "How do I approach a hunter as a vampire without giving myself away?"
          your right sorry. was Trying to show the safest way to go about it.

          but your ideas are all good to.


          Comment


          • Okay I'm planning to read the Covenant books to have a better grasp of the philosophies of the Covenants because while Secrets were fun it left things too open ended. Just asking but because there have been changes between covenants from 1e to 2e is there any paticualar fluff in the books I should ignore as it no longer matters for the 2e interpretation of the Covenants? Actually it's probably too much to ask the question to all of them, sorry about that
            Last edited by Iceblade44; 05-24-2018, 07:24 AM.


            .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post
              Okay I'm planning to read the Covenant books to have a better grasp of the philosophies of the Covenants because while Secrets were fun it ledt things to open ended. Just asking but because there have been changes between covenants from 1e to 2e is there any paticualar fluff in the books I should ignore as it no longer matters for the 2e interpretation of the Covenants? Actually it's probably to much to ask the question to all of them, sorry about that

              I, myself and my table sees the 1ed Covenant books as a complement to 2ed. There is not much information of the 2ed Covenants out there. Secrets is a good book, sure but it lacks information about them. The books are inspirational when it comes to information and how to present the workings, ideas etc of the Covenants, but some things are surely way different. The Invictus for instance are really archaic and aristocratic in first ed and quite anachronistic and reactionary to a fault. I see this as the old European guard, still there at a few places but more modern in most places, more 2ed if you will. I love all the covenant books except the CoC book ( but then I don't like the CoC at all and find they don't fit much at all in the setting) and use them to fill the gaps, and usually they present some good points and foundation you can build on together from what you get from 2ed. Like the Dragons are really not the same without their secret codes, handshakes and elaborate titles, or an explanation of what a Chrysalis is, and L&S is just sin-eating Judas-christians without their religion and theology to base their views. The Chartian book is perhaps not that great and it misses much of the workings of the covenant imho but it ain't plainly apologistic and lacking cohesion like the CoC-book. Although the 2ed CoC is way better then 1ed, I think 2ed CoC and 1ed book are the one that changed the most and has the least amount of useful material to export from 1ed to 2ed. And that's with bias aside.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post
                Okay I'm planning to read the Covenant books to have a better grasp of the philosophies of the Covenants because while Secrets were fun it left things too open ended. Just asking but because there have been changes between covenants from 1e to 2e is there any paticualar fluff in the books I should ignore as it no longer matters for the 2e interpretation of the Covenants? Actually it's probably too much to ask the question to all of them, sorry about that
                Yes, there's been significant thematic changes to most of the covenants.
                The Invictus went from wanting to be the top of the heap by maintaining a feudalism style of government that bordered on anachronistic to being content as "advisors" to another covenant in power. They don't have any unique covenant advantages, just a demi-magical covenant position that can confer quasi mystical benefits on others if that person notarizes a contract.
                The Ordo Dracul don't care about personal transcendence any longer. Whereas before it was mostly lip service, they were largely apolitical in favor of their pursuits and maintained some credibility by adhering to a scientific methodology with religious zealotry. Now they're blatant power whores dedicated to overthrowing God and replacing him by any means. They don't care about scientific principles, only shortcuts to success. This is exemplified in the mechanics for Scales, from their cheap XP cost and lack of actual prerequisites, to the barbarism required to enact them.
                The Carthian Movement went from largely wanting to ram some version or other of socialism they control on kindred society by violence and backed by an area effect dispel non-Carthian vampire magic, to getting some mystical powers fueled by statism worship designed to help them violently seize and retain control.
                The Lancea et Sanctum and Circle of the Crone, although sorcery mechanics got a major overhaul, thematically they changed the least.
                The Circle of the Crone is still a Christianophobic and misogynistic neopagan religious cult that taps into the social justice warrior scene for their membership. They still maintain the largest repertoire of rituals available and are second to none when it comes to what can be accomplished with their ritual magics.
                The Lancea et Sanctum is still a monotheistic Abrahamic religious cult that uses the imagery, hierarchy, and ritualism of the Roman Catholic Church to lure in those who prefer orthodoxy. Like the Invictus, they are content to "advise" and their sorcery provides teeth to those dedicated to the enforcement of kindred laws and the Traditions.
                Last edited by tsusasi; 05-24-2018, 09:27 AM.

                Comment


                • I don't think the Invictus lost there drive to be at the top or lost there preference for feudal organization. It has more to do with there reasoning. They want power not for the powers sake but for keeping the masquerade, which by being on top allows them to keep more control. They still enjoy there power but they now have a goal with it, to keep the status-quo, which doesn't mean keeping themselves archaic but to make the silence remains and humans unaware. Thus that makes them keeping the standard vampire city structure lay out less to do with it being feudal but to keep a hierarchy which is reinforced by their oaths, so they have a system of control
                  Last edited by Iceblade44; 05-24-2018, 10:35 AM.


                  .

                  Comment


                  • curious, on or ordo dracul? is it reasonable for a local version to be more interested in science then "overthrowing god" or is their any question raised if I as ST cause the local ordo to tolerate Coil of Ziva?


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                      curious, on or ordo dracul? is it reasonable for a local version to be more interested in science then "overthrowing god" or is their any question raised if I as ST cause the local ordo to tolerate Coil of Ziva?
                      You can do it but you wouldn't be sticking to the theme presented for them in 2nd edition since overthrowing god is their mission statement.
                      I personally see no reason for the Coil of Ziva NOT to be accepted by the Ordo Dracul. It's one of those things they would only disavow publicly if it's known because admitting that cannibalism is an acceptable route to power is not only going to repel prospective followers they intend to exploit in other means besides eating them, but it provides incentive for everyone else to make the Ordo Dracul kill on sight.
                      Why would the specifics of the Mystery of Ziva be known in the first place?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                        curious, on or ordo dracul? is it reasonable for a local version to be more interested in science then "overthrowing god" or is their any question raised if I as ST cause the local ordo to tolerate Coil of Ziva?
                        I think tausai overstated the shift in emphasis in the ordo dracul. They were never exclusively a scientific organization in 1e, and there is nothing stopping them from employing the scientific method in 2e. Likewise, while “spitting in the eye of god” is and always has been central to the order’s philosophy, it has been and still is up to the individual dragon to interpret that for themselves. At their core, the ordo dracul is about ascending beyond the vampiric condition, turning their curse into a blessing, by any means necessary. Some theistic dragons take the defiance of god literally, others see it as symbolic. Some dragons apply scientific rigor to their pursuit of asenscion, others engage in mysticism and ritual. What matters to the order is results, not how you achieve them or why you seek them.

                        More generally speaking, it’s important to remember that the Covenants are not monoliths. While there are some broad trends across domains, for the most part there is no one way any Covenant behaves. Each domain is unique, and while the culture of the ordo dracul in one city may be one of literal interpretation of the word of Dracula, another city’s chapter may see all that as irrelevant in modern times and only be interested in pursuing the coils as a scientific endeavor. Still another may have an entirely different perspective; there are no universal truths about the Covenants, which is part of why Secrets of the Covenants may come across as vague. The 1e Covenant books give great examples of how each Covenant might behave in a particular domain, and those examples are generally not incompatible with 2e at all. They’re just not the whole story. Take them as the examples they are, and then modify or re-write them as you see fit for your own domain and your own story.


                        Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                        My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                        Comment


                        • oh on Kalllisti or Les Gens Libres? Could either of their disciplines do anything about the conditioning devotion which does not work through creating or inflaming emotions, so theirs nothing for Perfidy to invert?


                          Comment


                          • Les Gens Libres have a devotion that allows them to resist Conditioning. As you noted, Conditioning in 2nd edition doesn't install specific feelings or emotions. Whether or not you actually allow users to install memories of feeling a certain way (and could thus be subject to warping with Perfidy) is largely an ST call. There's an NPC in one setting who has a homebrewed merit chain and devotion that allows him to insert certain emotions into altered memories.

                            Comment


                            • Hmmn Think a Kallisti enslaved in such a way would lose humanity something Feirce? when they saw their was no escape from conditioning?



                              or would they possibly if it isnt too unpleasant ask for a bloodbond, to at least take the unpleasant edge off of their existence. as it

                              What else can I do with a Kallisti slave? use them as a social tool? since Perfidy can be used against politicians corporations cults etc.

                              Though I should probaly specify in my will that if I meet final death they should be Destroed IMMEDIATELY for my Childer's protection.

                              Or is a bombcolor or some kind of contingency sorcery, or dominate better?
                              Last edited by Prince of the Night; 05-24-2018, 06:48 PM.


                              Comment


                              • Couple of questions about 'Healing' and 'The Cleansing', based on this piece of text:


                                Healing
                                Kindred blood seeks to return a vampire to the state of her
                                Embrace. Her hair and fingernails regrow as she sleeps. More
                                importantly, Vitae can force her injured body to reconstruct,
                                mending bones and knitting torn flesh in seconds. In dramatic
                                instances, severed limbs regenerate or even simply reattach (if
                                she’s able to heal the entire injury in a turn).
                                A single point of Vitae heals two points of bashing damage, or
                                one point of lethal damage. A single aggravated wound requires
                                five Vitae and a full day’s sleep. Aggravated damage is the only
                                type of wound that leaves a scar on Kindred. The scar appears
                                natural, unlike the original damage.


                                The Cleansing
                                While Kindred sleep, they return to the time of their
                                Embrace. Anything that wouldn’t constitute a Health level of
                                damage heals automatically and returns to its original state.
                                For this reason, many sires recommend their childer groom
                                for the Embrace, as part of the ritual of entering the Danse.
                                If an injury would require Vitae to heal (represented by
                                Health levels), the vampire will unconsciously heal it during
                                daysleep. Sometimes, this means the vampire will not have the
                                Vitae necessary to wake. As she falls to slumber, she may spend
                                Willpower points to “preserve” wounds through her rest, to keep
                                herself from healing them and spending excessive Vitae. This cost
                                is one Willpower per wound, and makes the wound permanent.
                                Sometimes, Kindred force other marks to remain. For
                                example, vampires often keep scars, tattoos, and piercings for
                                spiritual reasons or just to fit in with the flock. Many Kindred
                                remove long hair, in favor of wigs or cleaner, more modern
                                styles. The vampire spends Willpower to fight the healing
                                process while she sleeps. After a day’s rest, any damage heals
                                as normal, but her body remains changed.



                                When you "preserve" wounds, does that actually make the damage in your health boxes permanent as well? Say my vampire has 2 aggravated damaged, I wanna use Willpower to prevent my vampire from healing 1 dot of aggravated damage to make sure he doesn't lose all his Vitae over the day, does that mean he now permanently has 1 aggravated damage? Or is the "permanent" nature of 'The Cleansing' only a visual/aesthetic thing? If the actual aggravated wound becomes permanent, is there any way he can get rid of it?

                                If the answer to "is the aggravated damage permanent if I spend 1 Willpower" is "no", I have another question: Do I spend 1 Willpower once to keep the aggravated wound on my vampire until I'm ready to heal it, or do I have to spend 1 Willpower each day during daysleep?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X