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  • one thing is what to do with an object touchstone

    Checking the time on and polishing a pocket watch?

    working on a tablet? (I do all the time)

    or an animal

    is riding a horse touchstone, or changing his saddle etc yourself, enough to qualify?


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    • Think something like a family heirloom, or a present your father bought you before he died

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      • Is Diablerie an extended action (thus subject to the limits of extended actions, such as the maximum number of rolls, taking a Condition on failed rolls, etc) or a series of instant actions (and thus only limited by the Willpower you're willing to spend, but necessitating that you hit the required number of successes on a single roll, since they don't bank from roll-to-roll)?

        A strict reading seems to imply the latter, and that would certainly make diablerizing more potent Kindred a challenge...

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        • It's about the same with riding the wave I believe, it's weirdly worded, but it is implied that it's an extended roll. I would definitely treat it as such. After all, Amaranth is something Elders fear, if someone needed a shit ton of successes to commit Diablerie on them, why fear it?
          But yeah, I think the intent is that it's an extended roll, with the rules from them being applied except where the Diablerie rules contradicts them.

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          • You're gonna fear would-be diablerists anyway since a failed diablerie attempt will still kill you dead.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
              You're gonna fear would-be diablerists anyway since a failed diablerie attempt will still kill you dead.

              Yeah but not the whole cultural über-taboo of Diablerie as much if it was actually impossible to do unto an Elder in it's Blood Potency Prime. But I'm sure You know what I mean.

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              • Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                one thing is what to do with an object touchstone

                Checking the time on and polishing a pocket watch?

                working on a tablet? (I do all the time)

                or an animal

                is riding a horse touchstone, or changing his saddle etc yourself, enough to qualify?
                Objects and locations are harder to have meaningful interactions with, since they don't have active agendas. They won't have desires, which very naturally lead to drama. As an ST, I wouldn't count any of your example interactions meaningful in and of themselves. I think you can make them meaningful, but it's trickier.

                If you have a car, does every time you drive count as a meaningful interaction? I don't think so. But some important moments do:That time you were in an accident? That time some road-rager kept pulling in front of you and slowing down on the highway? That time you had to break up over the phone on your way to Vegas? Those to me are more meaningful.

                You gotta ask yourself, why was this moment important?

                Does the moment have real stakes or consequences? Does it reveal something about the character or the plot? Does it allow the PC to learn something about themselves? Were people in danger?

                It should be pretty easy to identify what's important about the interaction. If you really have a hard time seeing what it is, maybe it's not so important to deserve the WP bump or Condition resolution.

                When in doubt, I can put it back on the player by just asking them what the moment meant for them. I'm pretty lenient as long as I feel they aren't just ticking a box so the condition goes away. And, sometimes I'll even farm out the process whole hog - i.e. - You go back to the bottle of your ex/estranged/taken-too-soon husband's cologne. Okay, describe a flashback of your time with with him that has relevance to the plot or one of your character traits.

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                • so just working on a tablet touch stone or reading a novel on it isn't enough?

                  And a leatherbound copy of "The Prince" Needs to be quoted, not just casually read through

                  (I Have a leatherbound copy of the prince)


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                  • Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                    so just working on a tablet touch stone or reading a novel on it isn't enough?

                    And a leatherbound copy of "The Prince" Needs to be quoted, not just casually read through

                    (I Have a leatherbound copy of the prince)
                    Again, it depends on the context of those situations. "Just working on" & "Just reading" aren't meaningful, since the qualifier of 'just' directly states there's nothing more to the moment beyond the rote action itself. If you had a stereotypical nerd vampire with their Monty Python collection as their Touchstone, I'd hope you can see that having the character just quote Monty Python during random scenes isn't a good precedent to hook WP refreshes on.

                    Now, if the quotes come out at Elysium or during questioning by the sheriff and cause the character some kind of trouble - a loss of reputation, or a grudge from someone whose event they ruined - that becomes more meaningful because there are consequences for the action, there are complications which add to drama.

                    I would continue to encourage you to think about mundane vs. interesting interactions. Why is this particular moment exciting? How was this moment revealing? What did this moment add to the plot or setting? It's very easy to shoehorn a touchstone into a scene, even easier when it's an object you can carry around. it's more difficult to justify that those moments have any impact on the story at all.

                    Don't just tick a box so you can get WP back or ditch a Condition you don't want. Think about how an interaction would entertain the other players, or help you embody the character in a deeper way, or how it gives your ST more narrative options to make the story interesting.

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                    • does a meaningful interaction with a horse touch stone need to a daring escape from a fire, or hostiles?

                      or is just grooming and feeding it enough?


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                      • I don't want to be this guy, but meaningful is probably the word you want to look up.
                        Any touchstone interaction to solve Conditions and or replenish willpower should be meaningful to the character and/or the story. Have some importance to the character, deepen the character or give a good look into the psyche of her.
                        So the horse. It depends, if it was meaningful, then grooming and feeding would be enough.If you talk with the horse during it, remembering the time you two won the national race together, so close to the second one on the track, or perhaps the time where you where riding for two days straight in the mountains and slept together because you lost the tent down the ravine. If the character talked about such memories while grooming and feeding the horse, I'd say it was enough. If it's just "I groom and feed my horse, where is my willpower" then I'd say it's pretty clear that it is not enough.

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                        • Originally posted by Poseur View Post
                          I don't want to be this guy, but meaningful is probably the word you want to look up.
                          Any touchstone interaction to solve Conditions and or replenish willpower should be meaningful to the character and/or the story. Have some importance to the character, deepen the character or give a good look into the psyche of her.
                          So the horse. It depends, if it was meaningful, then grooming and feeding would be enough.If you talk with the horse during it, remembering the time you two won the national race together, so close to the second one on the track, or perhaps the time where you where riding for two days straight in the mountains and slept together because you lost the tent down the ravine. If the character talked about such memories while grooming and feeding the horse, I'd say it was enough. If it's just "I groom and feed my horse, where is my willpower" then I'd say it's pretty clear that it is not enough.
                          Put more briefly: Give the troupe a scene of the interaction, even if it's a relatively brief one like a ritualist character would take to set up a use of blood sorcery. Justify the camera time the interaction receives as though you needed to defend its inclusion in a published piece of media — the scene should establish or reinforce something the troupe knows about the character, the Touchstone, or the relationship between the two.


                          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                          • When it comes to character progression: when the books says that to advance something you must spend X exp per dot what does it mean per dot?

                            Let's say you have Celerity 2 and you want to get the 3d dot.

                            it's

                            1) 3xp*2 (current level of celerity)
                            2) 3xp*3 (level of celerity you want to achieve)
                            3) 3xp


                            Which one?

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                            • "Per dot" means when you go up a dot you pay that many experiences. So 3) a dot costs three experiences, flat. To go from Celerity 2 to 3 costs three experiences. To go from Celerity 3 to 4 costs three experiences. To go from Celerity 2 to 4 costs six experiences.

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