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  • Originally posted by Marcus View Post
    No.... As a kindred with a severed leg can't run until the leg grows back, a beheaded kindred can't move, think, see, until the head has grown back. A kind of torpor.
    A Kindred with a severed leg couldn't run because the leg is mechanically important for running. A Kindred without a head is likely able to walk around (though not see that much) since the brain is already dead and has nothing to do with either movement or the ability to think. I would consider the heart a much more likely seat of consciousness considering that's the only organ that is metaphysically important in any way for a Kindred.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

      A Kindred with a severed leg couldn't run because the leg is mechanically important for running. A Kindred without a head is likely able to walk around (though not see that much) since the brain is already dead and has nothing to do with either movement or the ability to think. I would consider the heart a much more likely seat of consciousness considering that's the only organ that is metaphysically important in any way for a Kindred.
      Well you can go for whatever you prefer as there are no rules about it. So if you want to allow to an headless vampire to go around without being able to hear, think and see go for it. I personally prefer a semi torpid state in this case. It prevent the character to walks smasing himself against tables and walls. Obviously this' valid just if you consider a dead brain as the center of thoughts ... But as long as you are considering dead eyes the center of sight this should be the case.
      Last edited by Marcus; 02-08-2019, 02:38 PM.

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      • When you Dominate someone and the command is "forget this scene happened", and someone else uses Dominate on the same person with the command "tell me what happened during that scene", what happens?

        Does the person answer "I don't know"?

        Or does this become a Clash of Wills between both Dominate users?

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        • Personally, I would say the victim answers with "I don't remember" (not "I don't know.") That scenario would potentially result in the character learning they were mind controlled. But discovering that you (the character) were mind controlled does equal you (the character) have their memories restored. Under base rules, they'd need someone with Auspex 4 to win a Clash of Wills on that particular memory in that block of time.
          The Clash of Wills (Dominate v. Dominate) would be for when one command is in progress of being carried out and another command is being installed that would stall or end the first command prematurely.
          Last edited by tsusasi; 02-10-2019, 10:33 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

            A few notes:

            * Fire has always been a huge, huge thing in civilization. Buildings were mostly out of wood (even the "stone" castles were supported by heavy wood buttressing), and the main source of light and heat was burning stuff. Oil lamps from this period on are vital, and oil can get sprayed, thrown or otherwise ignited to hilarious effects. Fire is also really, really hard to contain during the period--the modern measures that have greatly reduced fire risk are not present.

            * Gangrel survive. It's what they do. Protean 5 and to a lesser extent Resilience 5 underline this. Animalism serves as a tripwire, giving the Gangrel time to prepare so he can... survive. Don't take that away from the player. Instead, show that just because you're physically intact doesn't mean you aren't hurt. Everyone around you that you care about is less durable, even vulnerable, and while your body lives your mind and soul may not. Or not without injury. What steps will you take as you age to safeguard what is really important to you, now that you can in short order, live through danger?

            (BTW, the movie The Last Witchhunter (2015) hooks onto aspects of this.)

            * Surprise. Use it sparingly, and when necessary for the story apply it viciously and without remorse in overwhelming force. Go for staking, which paralyzes and prevents misting. Prep the encounter scene in advance and ensure the antagonists have had enough time to prepare and work out the PC's movements.

            But really, the role of the Gangrel should be "the one that comes back to get the rest out of trouble." The party should know their unstoppable bud has their back. Or not--in which case they should be honestly afraid. Ultimately the greatest vulnerability of a Gangrel is betrayal; and that's a fact that drives a wedge between them and others, reinforcing their loner-hood.

            --Khanwulf


            Hey buddy! Thanks for the detailed answer! My problem with Protean 5 isn't really the "incredibly difficult to harm" part, since as you said, that's kind of a a theme with Gangel. It's the ability to kill people while being nigh-unkillable -- except by people with some appreciable form of fire, which outside of actually weaponizing it, is just torches and such. It's not an impossible position, obviously, it just turns every fight into "do his opponents have enough fire on them to stop him from entering their lungs and eating them". This is a very swingy ability -- up until now, a fight with a small group of 4-6 British Soldiers wasn't a guarantee win. Now almost every fight would be an assured victory unless I force the issue, either by having his opponents have weaponized fire such as oil canisters or have them go "boy this mist sure is horrifying we better grab torches and wave them at it really aggressively while it chokes our friend to death.

            It feels pretty likely that I'm going to nerf it on some level, even if it's just to remove the "entering lungs" aspect of the ability.

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            • Originally posted by Enokh View Post
              Hey buddy! Thanks for the detailed answer! My problem with Protean 5 isn't really the "incredibly difficult to harm" part, since as you said, that's kind of a a theme with Gangel. It's the ability to kill people while being nigh-unkillable -- except by people with some appreciable form of fire, which outside of actually weaponizing it, is just torches and such. It's not an impossible position, obviously, it just turns every fight into "do his opponents have enough fire on them to stop him from entering their lungs and eating them". This is a very swingy ability -- up until now, a fight with a small group of 4-6 British Soldiers wasn't a guarantee win. Now almost every fight would be an assured victory unless I force the issue, either by having his opponents have weaponized fire such as oil canisters or have them go "boy this mist sure is horrifying we better grab torches and wave them at it really aggressively while it chokes our friend to death.

              It feels pretty likely that I'm going to nerf it on some level, even if it's just to remove the "entering lungs" aspect of the ability.
              Couple things that are nuances, but important to the presentation:

              1. The form isn't mist--it's smoke. Breathing in smoke is going to produce a noticeable reaction.

              2. It's up to you how you make the smoke react to sources of flame, but as for me? I'd have any open flame cause harm and the smoke naturally recoil from it. That... gets noticed pretty quick when you are, as you say, trying to figure out why your bud just started choking to death next to you. (A very Lovecraftian horror, to be sure.)

              3. Humans don't wander around in the dark without a light, unless they're already stirred up to do so or just damn lost. They'll bring a torch, candle or lamp. The first two if swung close to Andy Asphyxiation there in order to see enough to help, will interrupt the ash-cloud form of the player and cause him harm or to withdraw. The lamp is safest to him, but lamps get knocked over and such in good, horrifying chaos, setting fire to barns and curtains and coaches and erstwhile allies and the like. Hilarity, as I said.

              4. Note that you can suck blood from open wounds, too. It doesn't have to be lungs, which is the most obvious form of attack.

              5. Keep in mind movement rates for the cloud in relation to victims. If they stand still while not holding flame then the cloud can envelope them and get going. If they're moving the cloud may not be able to catch up. I've not checked the book on this, but it is something to track.

              6. The first time your player runs into a ghoul and he sucks someone else's Vitae out he's going to get a LOT more circumspect about who he's drawing the precious life out of. It's like running around and casually biting everyone. Blood bonds and sympathy all around.

              7. Oh, and revenants. That too.

              This is an important topic for me and if you want to post a thread there may be some crowdsourced ideas on how to deal with the power.

              --Khanwulf
              Last edited by Khanwulf; 02-15-2019, 05:55 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Enokh View Post



                Hey buddy! Thanks for the detailed answer! My problem with Protean 5 isn't really the "incredibly difficult to harm" part, since as you said, that's kind of a a theme with Gangel. It's the ability to kill people while being nigh-unkillable -- except by people with some appreciable form of fire, which outside of actually weaponizing it, is just torches and such. It's not an impossible position, obviously, it just turns every fight into "do his opponents have enough fire on them to stop him from entering their lungs and eating them". This is a very swingy ability -- up until now, a fight with a small group of 4-6 British Soldiers wasn't a guarantee win. Now almost every fight would be an assured victory unless I force the issue, either by having his opponents have weaponized fire such as oil canisters or have them go "boy this mist sure is horrifying we better grab torches and wave them at it really aggressively while it chokes our friend to death.

                It feels pretty likely that I'm going to nerf it on some level, even if it's just to remove the "entering lungs" aspect of the ability.

                I guess you are losing the point here: a requiem 2ed. fifth power is, almost in any case, equivalent to a 6th/7th dot of a Masquerade discipline. It's normal and designed to be absolutely awful.Vampire in requiem are the terrible creatures of the horror stories; powerful demons. So why do not thinking to let your 4-6 soldiers patrol to act as in a horror/Lovecraftian book?

                For example they could be horrified seeing a mate of them being suffocated by a sentient cloud of smoke. One of them, panicking, could shoot at the mist screaming and falling down on his back, the other could run away as the bullets pass through the cloud harmless. Now the Gangrel has to deal with an huge problem: a big Masquerade breach. Should him chase the remaining 4 soldiers? Maybe they took different paths or, maybe, they are still together but running as hell and him, as an ash-cloud, can move just up to half his speed. Maybe he need to shapeshifting back as human, or maybe as an animals to be faster (2 vitae). Let's say he reaches them again, jumping to the throat of another soldier, the others will shoot at him, probably with an all-out attack (maybe he's gonna use other vitae to use Resilence or healing himself up). Want him to become mist again? Good, other 3 vitae (5 in total now). Yes he can drink them back up but, again, the patrol could again run away, he will become human/wolf/whatever again, reaching them another time but this time, maybe, the environment has changed. Maybe one of the survivor has enough cold blood to think about what he experienced and open the gas from a stove. Long story short, changing to mist again, the soldier open a lighter throwing it in the room: Boom.
                Maybe now he suffer 4 aggravated. He has Resilence? Fine! Other vitae spent. Maybe at the end he'll kill anyone or possibly someone could be escaped letting the Masquerade deeply breached. But surely hasn't been an easy meal.

                As mist you are fucking slow. Let them run away. Breach in the Masquerade means other badasses vampires out on him. Would becoming mist save him than? I wouldn't bet on it.
                Last edited by Marcus; 02-16-2019, 08:18 AM.

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                • Marcus has it on all points. All the powers are frankly terrifying in a white room, but that's not where you play and if you look at it from the perspective of the victims things quickly turn into a mess for incautious vamps.

                  And very, very good point on the power scaling of dots between VtM and VtR. I had forgotten that one. (This is also one reason why 6+ Blood Potency does not result in Disciplines at 6+ dots.)

                  --Khanwulf

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                  • I agree. Compared to Masquerade, in Requiem Devotions system has acquired much more importance. With Devotions you can transcend the power level of a 5th dot Requiem Discipline (that's already a 7th power level from Masquerade). I'm thinking to devotions such as: Bones of the Mountain, Juggernaut Gait, Force of Nature, Dark decree and so on).

                    I think that Requiem, yes can have huge fights and epic battles and can be played as an action RPG if you like to go that way, but you should use proper antagonists. But when played in a city environment, without involving other supernaturals, the play style should be adapted in a way I tried to describe in my previous post, because the power gap between Kindred and Humans is to high.
                    Last edited by Marcus; 02-16-2019, 08:20 AM.

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                    • I have 2 questions:

                      1) If your vampire falls into a frenzy, and the frenzy's goal is to beat the opposing vampire, yet the opposing vampire turns out to be a lot stronger and quickly manages to fill up a good chunk of your Health with lethal damage, does the frenzying vampire realize she's losing and turn tail? Is a frenzying Beast smart enough to cut its losses and make a run for it? Or will the Beast continue to fight till the bitter end because that was the original frenzy goal?

                      2) If you accidentally kill a vampire (for example you fill a vampire's Health with aggravated damage with your Claws of the Unholy), can you diablerize him if you immediately go for it? Or does the killing have to happen as part of the diablerie ritual?

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                      • 1. I would say the frenzy goal changes from beating that vampire to fleeing that vampire. I'd install a long term competitive condition on the fleeing vampire to where they feel compelled to one up that vampire in another arena. I don't run the Beast as a moron that will knowingly kill itself.

                        2. I would say a body who's health track is filled with aggravated damage is not an eligible target for diablerie.
                        Last edited by tsusasi; 02-17-2019, 07:37 PM.

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                        • My rule of thumb is, a frenzy's goal can change if you hit another frenzy trigger. Taking enough lethal damage could be a trigger for a "run away" frenzy, so that would be a valid goal change. (Similarly, if you're frenzying to destroy someone, the taste of their blood might change the goal to "feed to satiety".)

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                          • Also, yeah, by book Diablerie has to be performed on a torpid vampire. A vampire agged in their last health box is dead, not torpid.

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                            • What happens if you use Dominate 3, Entombed Command, and give the command "when Billy the Ventrue makes eye contact with you, do not--under any circumstances--follow his commands"?

                              Would that effectively make the person immune to Dominate from the mentioned Ventrue Billy? Or would that result in a Clash of Wills when Billy tries to Dominate him? Or would that Entombed Command not work for some reason?
                              Last edited by Ventrue Life; Yesterday, 11:07 AM.

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                              • Text book Clash of Wills. Both commands are mutually exclusive.

                                An extremely dangerous command, though, if Billy the Ventrue figures it out and gives reverse orders without using Dominate. "Do not kill your Sire."


                                Bloodline: The Stygians
                                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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