Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: Vampire

[Baaldam]

Ok, so I've been reading France by Night and L'Hérésie Cathare (supplements in French for Vark Ages 20y Edition) and it got me thinking...

Do we know which clans were affiliated with the Romans, the Gauls, etc. in Europe ? As far as I can tell, no Clan is supposed to have their origin in Western Europe, save perhaps the Ventrues, who I guess could be the result of Roman Vampires Embracing natives of today's Northern France and thus changing their Blood, if they are indeed scions of the Julii.

Nothing too definite or solid, but the Gangrel seem to have had a presence amidst the many celtic or celtic-influenced people. Nosferatu and Ventrue seem to have had a presence in the greek-speaking world, if one can rely on the myths of the bloodlines in the CoC (or any other covenant book for that matter) as fact, that is.

Anyway, Requiem for Rome does give a short but punchy distribution of the foreign kindred across the roman world in the clans write-ups that can make a simple basis for historical games mixed fragments from the clanbooks.

So, in those ancien territories, which clans would have led for centuries, before the coming of Rome and everything after. Or did Vampires never came before Rome in those parts ? It could be quite intruiguing in itself (and to an even larger degree, to the Americas - are the First Nations and Natives Vampires truly Ventrues, Toréadors, etc. or is it just an easy way to classify them) ?

Do we have any knowledge about it ?

More probably easy ways to classify them. Consider the Norvegi, who are classified as Mekhet even though they semi-openly claim descent from a norse vampire clan called Grettir, the Macellarii, a Ventrue bloodline even though its founder was apparently a Julii, or the Annunaki, who seem be both Gangrel and Ventrue while harkening to a civilization older than the Invictus they currently belong to by millenia.

All clans historical references are only as reliable as the ST wants them to be, any ancient reference to a clan could actually be a different though similar (and now possibly extinct) one. Or in a contrarian note, any "secret lost clan" like the Akhud or Julii, just some insular group of Mekhet or Ventrue that developed an unique culture and mythology of its own.

About vampires in the Americas, i really recommend you Shadows of Mexico as a great showcase on the subject of precolumbian vampires and their blending with invading/migrating kindred in the centuries since. An early 1st edition book, but it has aged quite well imho.

[Ur-Than]

Nothing too definite or solid, but the Gangrel seem to have had a presence amidst the many celtic or celtic-influenced people. Nosferatu and Ventrue seem to have had a presence in the greek-speaking world, if one can rely on the myths of the bloodlines in the CoC (or any other covenant book for that matter) as fact, that is.

Anyway, Requiem for Rome does give a short but punchy distribution of the foreign kindred across the roman world in the clans write-ups that can make a simple basis for historical games mixed fragments from the clanbooks.




More probably easy ways to classify them. Consider the Norvegi, who are classified as Mekhet even though they semi-openly claim descent from a norse vampire clan called Grettir, the Macellarii, a Ventrue bloodline even though its founder was apparently a Julii, or the Annunaki, who seem be both Gangrel and Ventrue while harkening to a civilization older than the Invictus they currently belong to by millenia.

All clans historical references are only as reliable as the ST wants them to be, any ancient reference to a clan could actually be a different though similar (and now possibly extinct) one. Or in a contrarian note, any "secret lost clan" like the Akhud or Julii, just some insular group of Mekhet or Ventrue that developed an unique culture and mythology of its own.

About vampires in the Americas, i really recommend you Shadows of Mexico as a great showcase on the subject of precolumbian vampires and their blending with invading/migrating kindred in the centuries since. An early 1st edition book, but it has aged quite well imho.

Yeah, I need to get some of those books, but admitedly, reading them in English and not in French (my native language) makes it somewhat harder to understand at times !

I thin one of Requiem's strength is how nebulous it is concerning the origin(s) of vampires, but it's also somewhat frustrating at times. Hopefully in a few years we'll see creators starting to push for more "ancient" settings in various countries to help cover some of those times (imagine a book about the rise of Dracula and the early days of his Ordo! it'd be crazy cool!).

I know that the Five Clans led 1ed to be somewhat bloated with Bloodlines so I'm happy that 2nd seems to be avoiding it so far. Still, I wonder if it isn't frustrating for the writers sometimes XD

[Baaldam]

Yeah, I need to get some of those books, but admitedly, reading them in English and not in French (my native language) makes it somewhat harder to understand at times !

I thin one of Requiem's strength is how nebulous it is concerning the origin(s) of vampires, but it's also somewhat frustrating at times. Hopefully in a few years we'll see creators starting to push for more "ancient" settings in various countries to help cover some of those times (imagine a book about the rise of Dracula and the early days of his Ordo! it'd be crazy cool!).

In fact, i do like the nebulousness exactly because it gives a ST immense freedom to reinterpret things in a number of ways or create utterly insane twists and run along with them.

For example, how would you feel if i said one of the "generic templates" in the Ordo Dracul book hints about it either making a cross through the pole or having witnessed the last glaciation, if not both?

(And yeah, the PCs eventually found out she could transform into mammoth and other megafauna - to be more precise, the endgame partly involved her recovery of the capacity to do so through torpor)

I know that the Five Clans led 1ed to be somewhat bloated with Bloodlines so I'm happy that 2nd seems to be avoiding it so far. Still, I wonder if it isn't frustrating for the writers sometimes XD

Well, for starters bloodlines are all pretty much optional and about as large or small as one wants them to be, so it doesn't really worry me.
Unless i have some major plot going on for them, there's 50% chance the PC, its sire and 1-5 other kindred are the whole of it.

For another, i have no problem with getting a bloodline - specially those available to multiple clans, with a origin myth harkening to antiquity, references to stuff that breaks from the normal rules or all of the above - and revealing they are actually remnants of a "lost" clan, some form of wicked dead or worse.
Half the "Mekhet" bloodlines from Ancient Mysteries are actually Akhud infiltrators in my games, for example.

[Mad_Maudlin]

I've read Thousand Years of Night, but I can't find a ruling on this and want to confirm: If a character's Vigor/Celerity/Resilience dots plus their dots in the corresponding Physical Attribute add up to more than ten, there's no rule that caps Attribute dice at ten, right? So if an elder has Vigor 5 with Strength 6 and Brawl 6, they can throw a punch at 17 dice before adding Willpower, Vitae expenditure, etc.?

[Marcus]

I've read Thousand Years of Night, but I can't find a ruling on this and want to confirm: If a character's Vigor/Celerity/Resilience dots plus their dots in the corresponding Physical Attribute add up to more than ten, there's no rule that caps Attribute dice at ten, right? So if an elder has Vigor 5 with Strength 6 and Brawl 6, they can throw a punch at 17 dice before adding Willpower, Vitae expenditure, etc.?

Exactly, Vigor doesn't count for the attribute's limit given by the BP. It's in the core book.

[Horodrigo]

How does a neonate Dukhan keeps his bane in check on a non-crossover session?

[Satchel]

How does a neonate Dukhan keeps his bane in check on a non-crossover session?

Holding off on dropping to Humanity 6 so it doesn't kick in, taking banes to remove torpor from the list of breaking points so repeated torpor is easier to manage, or getting ahold of "some other method" that allows them to access the Astral before they develop Nightmare Journey.

[Ur-Than]

What has become of the Morbus with the 2e ? Their past rested a lot on the Fog of Eternity, but if I'm not mistaken, it has been removed in the 2nd Edition. I can't remember if they appeared again after Requiem for Rome or not (which i don't own).

[nofather]

They popped up in the Dark Eras Companion, specifically the Black Plague era. Still operating in the shadows to keep their needs from alarming other Kindred.

[Second Chances]

How does a neonate Dukhan keeps his bane in check on a non-crossover session?

In addition to what Satchel said, if you are playing in Baghdad, I specifically wrote an Astral Iris into Baghdad's gates so Kindred can access the Astral without Beasts. I'd expect elder Dukhan have ways of bringing neonates into the Astral too, but such favours come with a price.

[Yossarian]

What has become of the Morbus with the 2e ? Their past rested a lot on the Fog of Eternity, but if I'm not mistaken, it has been removed in the 2nd Edition. I can't remember if they appeared again after Requiem for Rome or not (which i don't own).

The Fog is gone, but keep in mind that vampires don't have perfect memory. I've used this comparison before, but think of it this way: I can't remember what I was doing last Tuesday, let alone three years ago. What hope is there for a centuries old being? Vampires have a tenuous grasp on their history, but they're also notorious liars, especially to themselves.

[Ur-Than]

Great ! So in theory, all I knew from Morbus in 1ed can be used - at least lorewise ? I'm not sure Cachexy works in the new edition as it was written down for the first.

[Yossarian]

Great ! So in theory, all I knew from Morbus in 1ed can be used - at least lorewise ? I'm not sure Cachexy works in the new edition as it was written down for the first.

Cachexy is also updated in the Dark Eras Companion. It’s similar to the 1e version, but it had some quality of (un)life adjustments.

[totalgit]

The Fog is gone, but keep in mind that vampires don't have perfect memory. I've used this comparison before, but think of it this way: I can't remember what I was doing last Tuesday, let alone three years ago. What hope is there for a centuries old being? Vampires have a tenuous grasp on their history, but they're also notorious liars, especially to themselves.

I thought the fog still happens, its just not the default?

[Yossarian]

I thought the fog still happens, its just not the default?

Sort of. In the torpor section it does mention that, on rare occasions, a vampire might wake up with a new personality or distorted recollections, but otherwise it's assumed the dreams you experience in torpor keep you sharp, and prepared for the future. The term "fog of eternity" is never used, and the idea that vampire history is unreliable because of torpor is gone.