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  • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I'm thinking as comparisons to Mage: the Awakening, which specifically requires a journey of contemplation before getting dots back. For vampires I kind of like the idea that the only thing keeping them from feeling more human again for a while is just not wanting to try enough.
    That's about the size of it; Touchstones are where the main complication arises, because they're attached in descending order, getting new ones only requires buying another dot in the Merit, and replacing lost or dead ones requires buying Humanity back up.

    Humanity's comparatively cheap to buy, but it's relatively easy to lose once you've detached all your available Touchstones, and it's easier to cling to your latest significant relationship than scramble to keep the plates spinning at the higher levels.


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
      I'm thinking as comparisons to Mage: the Awakening, which specifically requires a journey of contemplation before getting dots back. For vampires I kind of like the idea that the only thing keeping them from feeling more human again for a while is just not wanting to try enough.
      In my opinion is the other way around. Vampire aren't human any longer, so their normal status would rather be without humanity with the Beast taking over the control. Thus would rather be the vampire doing efforts to gather back pieces of lost humanity in an eternal struggle with the Beast (which is a metaphoric rather than real entity -as it was in Masquerade) which has the advantage of time and that everything get corrupted at some point, piece by piece.

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      • The reason Mage has a specific, onerous process you have to go through before buying Wisdom is because it’s the game that most doesn’t actually want you to.

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        • Does the Blush of Life allow vampires to actually taste food and drink, or does it merely upgrade "so disgusting you gag and spit it up immediately" to bland?

          Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
          The reason Mage has a specific, onerous process you have to go through before buying Wisdom is because it’s the game that most doesn’t actually want you to.
          Acts of Hubris and the Conditions inflicted by failed rolls grant the Arcane Beats that are integral to buying it back, as does the very act of pursuing the necessary Obsession, as does going on adventures in its custom built "literally go through a sojourn of discovery in your own soul and your connection to humanity and the universe" corner of the setting. Also, using spells to inflict further Conditions on yourself.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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          • Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
            The reason Mage has a specific, onerous process you have to go through before buying Wisdom is because it’s the game that most doesn’t actually want you to.
            You very much are intended to buy up Wisdom if that's what you want for your character, and the games provides in-game mechanics for how to go about it since Wisdom is a stat that's relatively known in-game (even if not directly quantifiable by the characters). I actually like the concept of it.

            But I do think it's a badly implemented concept since most groups have very limited playing times and this forces some of that time to be dedicated to a thing only relevant to a single player who might not be that interested in playing it out in the first place. Not to mention that the time (on top of the XP) you invest into this can be nullified by a single roll the very next session if you're unlucky.
            When it comes to Humanity we do require the character to make an actual effort (just like how it works with Integrity) but that effort can either take place during a session if it's interesting, between sessions if it's not that interesting, or during downtime if we have a timeskip in the game. What makes Wisdom recovery bad is that you're forced into the first of these three options.
            Last edited by Tessie; 03-30-2021, 04:40 AM.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
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            • Anyway, vampires eating, how does that work?


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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              • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                Anyway, vampires eating, how does that work?
                how so? the act of eating like a cake? or the act of feeding?

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                • Originally posted by Grimmi05 View Post
                  how so? the act of eating like a cake? or the act of feeding?
                  They were just asking if they can taste real food or drink.

                  I don't know if there's a canon answer. I don't allow it, everything tasting like ash or dust.

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                  • I was imagining a Prince meeting some important human figure over tea, and wondering if that would be a case where he partakes just to be social or actually could get something out of it (even if blood is better and he would pay for it later).


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                    • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                      I was imagining a Prince meeting some important human figure over tea, and wondering if that would be a case where he partakes just to be social or actually could get something out of it (even if blood is better and he would pay for it later).
                      I allow to enjoy also the food under blush of life effect. But I can't recall any hard rule in that

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                      • The sidebar on Solace mentions that "the food has taste" and the section on the Blush of Life's adjustments to its statement of "Food and drink taste terrible, and immediately cause violent, bloody vomiting" only specifies that you can keep it down until later in the night. The section on Humanity says that Humane Kindred "remember the way food tasted."

                        I'd say that all aggregates to "no."


                        Resident Lore-Hound
                        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                        • So, the implication I get from the settings chapter of the core book is that the five "main" Covenants are mostly just the ones that are really big in the Western world (with the likes of the Lancea et Sanctum and Ordo Dracul having some agendas to proselytize), and that other parts of the world have entirely different Covenants emerging from their cultural context which are just as big.

                          Is that on the money? Is there a more direct reference to that in a later book? Or even in a part of the core which I've missed?


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                          • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            So, the implication I get from the settings chapter of the core book is that the five "main" Covenants are mostly just the ones that are really big in the Western world (with the likes of the Lancea et Sanctum and Ordo Dracul having some agendas to proselytize), and that other parts of the world have entirely different Covenants emerging from their cultural context which are just as big.

                            Is that on the money? Is there a more direct reference to that in a later book? Or even in a part of the core which I've missed?

                            That is an interesting question with nebulous answers i'd guess.

                            According to Rites of the Dragon, some of the first kindred Dracula met were a pair of turkish women of the Invictus that took over his castle and would learn more of the group by traveling to Adrianople, then ottoman capital. And the first time he heard about acolytes of the Crone was as "a band of pagans in the steppes who terrorized even the fearsome Tatars and whose blasphemies against God had lured demons to give them worldly power", so it also depends on one's definition of "Western world" one might say.
                            Last edited by Baaldam; 04-01-2021, 08:07 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


                              That is an interesting question with nebulous answers i'd guess.

                              According to Rites of the Dragon, some of the first kindred Dracula met were a pair of turkish women of the Invictus that took over his castle and would learn more of the group by traveling to Adrianople, then ottoman capital. And the first time he heard about acolytes of the Crone was as "a band of pagans in the steppes who terrorized even the fearsome Tatars and whose blasphemies against God had lured demons to give them worldly power", so it also depends on one's definition of "Western world" one might say.
                              I feel as though that information might be superseded a bit when we've got descriptions of covenants in Kindred Beijing with names such as Bureaus of Childer and Silence and they've got two covenants influenced by Rites of the Dragon but are not properly part of the Ordo Dracul.

                              That said, the point about the global West is well made when I had forgotten how Athens is stated to be home to numerous uniquely Greek Covenants (such as the combination Appolonian-Byzantine Christian cult) in addition to the Circle, Lancea and Ordo, with no mention of Invictus or Carthians. Or how in Berlin, a covenant from the communist half of the city absorbed most of the Carthians upon unification. It kind of seems like only North American cities are presented as having the vanilla Covenants.

                              I suppose what I'm getting at is that while I find this presentation extremely intriguing and inviting for world building purposes, I'm a tad frustrated that the book's overall presentation precludes having set it up or giving it context. At least as far as I can tell.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                              • I think you would use the trappings of the main 5 to fill out any other type of covenant.That Appolonian-Byzantine cult might be able to use Theban Sorcery but doesn't have the same type of deep seated cathoclism that the Lancea have. They still are a cult that uses some christian trappings and can use some of the same merits that the Lancea can use but are not the Lancea.

                                I guess what I am getting at is that you can use the main 5 covenants and file the serial numbers off and can be used to make Covenants outside the western world. Or you can mix and match different aspects to make a Covenant that isn't western based.

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