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  • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    What happens, mechanically, if you're made to forget your Touchstone through Dominate or similar channels?
    RAW: You gain the Amnesia (Persistent) Condition. You also have a strong case via Sanctity of Merits for a refund if the Touchstone was not your free chargen one. Whether you maintain the mechanical advantages of the Touchstone is a per-table decision.

    YMMV: If your table has a process to determine when a Touchstone no longer grants its bonuses due to neglect (for example if your ST says that failing to interact with a Touchstone for six months means you can't claim mechanical bonuses) then in theory that would apply. However, I'd argue the mechanical bonuses would still apply in the meantime. You might not know why that bartender you swear you never met before was able to talk you out of frenzy, or why unloading your troubles on them bolsters your confidence (willpower gain), or why their advice helps you come to terms with the evils you inflict (degeneration bonus) - but they do.

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    • What happens if a vampire (lets say over bp 5) drinks from a cup with several kindred blood spilled inside, for several times. Through who she would get the blood bond? Is it a kind of clash of wills?

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      • Originally posted by Marcus View Post
        What happens if a vampire (lets say over bp 5) drinks from a cup with several kindred blood spilled inside, for several times. Through who she would get the blood bond? Is it a kind of clash of wills?

        Blood bond is not a clash of wills. There is a roll stated in the book to resist it and it's a willpower to roll that resist. I think this question is absolutely impossible for us to answer. If he drank a cup full of kindred vitae, not blood, but kindred vitae and it was still fresh, then I think I would make a list of vampires then roll the dice to see who got the third stage blood bond.

        I am sure it is completely buried now, but I do believe somewhere it was stated that you could only get 1 stage bond per 24 hours. so it would take 3 days to get that third bond. The first two days this poor vampire would likely be blood bonded to ALL the contributers as he can only spend 1 willpower per turn to resist.. which means he could only resist one of them

        Though some people say it is 1 drink per scene.. and of course all that goes out the window if they have the Coil of the Voivode, because then they could get 3rd stage bonded in one drink....

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        • Originally posted by Vitalis View Post
          The first two days this poor vampire would likely be blood bonded to ALL the contributers as he can only spend 1 willpower per turn to resist.. which means he could only resist one of them
          It's per action; not per turn.


          Bloodline: The Stygians
          Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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          • Originally posted by Marcus View Post
            What happens if a vampire (lets say over bp 5) drinks from a cup with several kindred blood spilled inside, for several times. Through who she would get the blood bond? Is it a kind of clash of wills?
            There's no mechanics. Assuming they aren't already immune because of a preexisting oath, vinculum, or ritual protection, I'd say they get +1 step bound to each vampire who contributed at least one vitae to the drink.
            If I'm not interested in screwing around with arbitrarily throwing around multiple bonds between NPCs at once (and I'm usually not) I'd say the combination of different types of vitae nullified the vinculum creation effect.
            If it's a scheme concocted by the PCs to try and fuck over an NPC, I'd rule a +1 step vinculum establishes only toward the PC who contributed the most toward the drink.

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            • I'm pretty sure that the 24h time between the drinks was from 1ed. I remember that now is possible to close a vinculum at 3rd stage in one night.

              Furtermore I understand the point, every contributor rolls, but if many jave success, ar the third drink, who prevail?

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              • I think it's still there, simply because otherwise you end up having to figure out what constitutes separate drinks.

                Like, why would the bond deepen if you take 3 vitae with a breath between each, but not if you drank them all at once? There needs to be some time for it to "settle in" simply to allow elders to feed properly.

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                • Rose says it's now based on when makes sense in the story so if someone comes to trust you more you can bond them more but I do it the old way when STing.

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                  • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                    It's per action; not per turn.
                    You only get one action per turn, but I do concede that these are different in the case of someone doing something to you, like 10 vampires trying to dominate you on their turns. I guess if you had 10 willpower you could burn it all

                    In this case your action is to drink the vitae in the cup...

                    I also think that the per scene or per night rule is necessary because if everyone could just drop three shots with one vitae in each making a third stage blood bond in a matter of sections then the scale of the voivode is utterly useless, you know, The one that allows you to drop 3 vitae into shots and make a third stage bond in a matter of seconds...

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                    • It's 3 to get to second or 5 to get to third but you're right.

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                      • Ten different vampires are all going to establish eye contact on the exact same character at the exact same second and mesmerize him ten different times in the span of three seconds? I don't think so.

                        And so what if a single coil of Voivode is rendered useless by a vampire being able to blood bond a person across scenes in a single night? There's a Cruac ritual that renders it useless. There's plenty of disciplines rendered useless with the application of a coil. Not to mention there's a scale, Carthian Law and Invictus oath that renders blood bonds as useless or ineffective.

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                        • Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                          Ten different vampires are all going to establish eye contact on the exact same character at the exact same second and mesmerize him ten different times in the span of three seconds? I don't think so.
                          Swwwwiiiing and a miss. I never once said that was probable or realistic. It was a silly example of how you could expend a silly amount of willpower... it was not meant to be a “this happens all the time” example.

                          Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                          And so what if a single coil of Voivode is rendered useless by a vampire being able to blood bond a person across scenes in a single night? There's a Cruac ritual that renders it useless. There's plenty of disciplines rendered useless with the application of a coil. Not to mention there's a scale, Carthian Law and Invictus oath that renders blood bonds as useless or ineffective.
                          Blood bonding is something every vampire is “born” with the ability to do, why would you need to take a scale to learn how to do it.

                          Sure some scales render disciplines or merits less functional, but not all vampires have the “access” to get those things. Please note the difference.

                          However. I mentioned a single scene, you compared with across scenes.. so again. I think you completely missed what I was saying.

                          Also I am not aware of this cruac ritual that you have referenced that allows you to 3rd stage blood bond as the coil does. Making the coil useless to take.. however as per rules, you probably can’t be in both covenants at the same time..


                          Live Bait ah yes!! In my haste I think I got 3 happy.

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                          • I think the Cruac ritral referred to is the one that makes the caster imbue to Blood Bonds and addiction. I don't agree that it makes Voivode useless as it only protects the caster and you can still use it on others.

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                            • Another question arised after a PC of mine took swarm form merit.
                              Now is *almost* unstoppable.

                              If he get bound: swarm form;
                              He take just 1 or max 2 damages per attack (by every source but area effect)
                              He ignore the defense while attacks, adding this with lethal from protean 4.... or even aggravated...

                              What could be a smart/original/creative way to counter this?

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                              • Fire, mind control, another swarm, Masquerade breaches, Cruac and Theban rituals.

                                Can you be more specific about what you mean by counter it? Are you trying to kill him, or what?

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