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  • Take 1 can of hair spray and a small flame, apply early adventure game logic to create a overly complext scheme to trap swarm in small jar.
    Now I want a Requiem point and click adventure game, I have overthought what you need the swarm in a jar for.

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    • Strips of duct tape, with the sticky side up will stop crawling bugs and mice. Glue traps and glue boards will stop them as well as mice and rats cold and they won't be chewing their way free. Drop a 5x5 (or larger) plyboard over top of them as an area of effect and tap dance on it to an accompaniment of the popping noises and squeals of their death cries. Or just douse the area with alcohol and light a match.

      A hair dryer on high, a garden hose, an electric air pump, or pressure washer doing focused blasts (not waving it around wildly) will easily disperse even flying vermin outside their survival radius where they'll instantly shrivel and die. Bonus points if you blast them straight into a sewer, bonfire, stream, or nest of a different vermin type (like termites, hornets, fire ants) or glue trap.

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      • Originally posted by Marcus View Post
        Another question arised after a PC of mine took swarm form merit.
        Now is *almost* unstoppable.

        If he get bound: swarm form;
        He take just 1 or max 2 damages per attack (by every source but area effect)
        He ignore the defense while attacks, adding this with lethal from protean 4.... or even aggravated...

        What could be a smart/original/creative way to counter this?

        Swarm form is more or less like Protean 5: it makes you extremely hard to kill. You may not be very effective within it, but you're going to die hard for sure.

        How to deal with it? Obfuscate all exits. Bring fire (flamethrowers especially). Use a net (for size 1 forms, not insects). Use mental powers that can stun/remove actions (I have not specific examples to cite, but a custom Devotion for Auspex would work). Dominate the swarm into a contained area (it only has to make eye contact with you, which is pretty easy when it has 1,000 eyes).

        Now... it's annoying as ST to encounter a player swinging a power that takes all the drama out of situations for him (or her). But let me gently suggest that you approach the situation in a few ways:

        1. Talk to the player and define with him or her the core direction being played toward: if "unkillable bastard" is their thing, then they need to know that their opponents will find other ways to attack their Requiem out of necessity.

        2. Put yourself in the NPCs' shoes. They may not (yet) know about the PC's capabilities, but once they do, they'll be having this same conversation and ultimately it'll be easier to attack things the PC cares about, instead of him himself. You don't have to kill someone to defeat them: keep that in mind.

        3. Assuming NPCs want to challenge the PC directly, they can come up with plans, and also develop powers themselves (or hire such muscle) to complicate things. Trap the PC, kill off most of his swarm, and let one escape to reform into a starving vamp. Run with the "you survived death again--now consequences" plot for a session or two. Let the NPCs think they got him. Let the other PCs think he's toast. This is traditional stuff.

        Have fun. Your player put a lot of effort into something potent and iconic. Let him enjoy himself, too.

        --Khanwulf

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        • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post


          Swarm form is more or less like Protean 5: it makes you extremely hard to kill. You may not be very effective within it, but you're going to die hard for sure.

          How to deal with it? Obfuscate all exits. Bring fire (flamethrowers especially). Use a net (for size 1 forms, not insects). Use mental powers that can stun/remove actions (I have not specific examples to cite, but a custom Devotion for Auspex would work). Dominate the swarm into a contained area (it only has to make eye contact with you, which is pretty easy when it has 1,000 eyes).

          Now... it's annoying as ST to encounter a player swinging a power that takes all the drama out of situations for him (or her). But let me gently suggest that you approach the situation in a few ways:

          1. Talk to the player and define with him or her the core direction being played toward: if "unkillable bastard" is their thing, then they need to know that their opponents will find other ways to attack their Requiem out of necessity.

          2. Put yourself in the NPCs' shoes. They may not (yet) know about the PC's capabilities, but once they do, they'll be having this same conversation and ultimately it'll be easier to attack things the PC cares about, instead of him himself. You don't have to kill someone to defeat them: keep that in mind.

          3. Assuming NPCs want to challenge the PC directly, they can come up with plans, and also develop powers themselves (or hire such muscle) to complicate things. Trap the PC, kill off most of his swarm, and let one escape to reform into a starving vamp. Run with the "you survived death again--now consequences" plot for a session or two. Let the NPCs think they got him. Let the other PCs think he's toast. This is traditional stuff.

          Have fun. Your player put a lot of effort into something potent and iconic. Let him enjoy himself, too.

          --Khanwulf
          Step 1) NPC uses down and dirty combat against the swarm. Step 2) Molotovs and celerity means most of the swarm is reduced to ashes. 3) you re-consolidate yourself into a mess of kindred form. Step 4) Stake the fucker, ransom him to his coterie.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Malus View Post

            Step 1) NPC uses down and dirty combat against the swarm. Step 2) Molotovs and celerity means most of the swarm is reduced to ashes. 3) you re-consolidate yourself into a mess of kindred form. Step 4) Stake the fucker, ransom him to his coterie.

            1. "Storyteller characters might deal some damage, but they’re never able to initiate a Down and Dirty Combat." p. 176. If this is an NPC on NPC fight, then whatever; the one who wins who the ST wants for story purposes. Why roll? If your ST tries this on you, then he's being a dick on purpose. My list as you quoted was expressly intended to encourage STs *not* to be dicks.

            2. You can skip #1 and go directly to #2 if you want. Celerity and any fire will do the trick, assuming you can affect enough coverage. Personally? Flamethrowers are easy enough to make and classified as "airguns"....

            3. Step #3 and #4 follow if some bit of the PC is unable to escape. Works on NPCs with swarm form even better.

            --Khanwulf

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            • Whats it like to pull back from the brink? (of becoming Draugr) I got the impression at humanity 1, even if he does decide to improve his humanity to 2, he's not going to break down weeping, that will have to wait till he gets back up to 3 or 4, instead hes at first motivated mostly by fear for his own psyche.

              Think im right?


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              • Netflix's Van Helsing got quite a few examples of the above.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post


                  Swarm form is more or less like Protean 5: it makes you extremely hard to kill. You may not be very effective within it, but you're going to die hard for sure.
                  Maybe I missed something. Why you wouldn't be very effective in swarm form? You keep your stats, rolling Strength+brawl+vigor without subtracting defense. Furthermore you could use protean 4 as well to deal lethal (or even aggravated),

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                    Maybe I missed something. Why you wouldn't be very effective in swarm form? You keep your stats, rolling Strength+brawl+vigor without subtracting defense. Furthermore you could use protean 4 as well to deal lethal (or even aggravated),

                    There have been other discussions on whether the stats change to those of the creature (per Beast's Skin, p.140) or you use the vampire's stats. Also, (weak, IMO) arguments from absence about applying Vigor or not, or allowing physical intensity.

                    I probably understated things by not being very careful with my words. I'm personally inclined to use creature stats and add Vigor and physical intensity, which means a high-strength vampire drops several dice in damage to offset ignoring Defense.

                    I'd also let someone deal lethal and/or aggravated (when a frenzying swarm per Claws of the Unholy)--because Beast's Form indicates Disciplines are used normally. And, I'm not scared of dealing with the PC on other levels.

                    --Khanwulf

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post


                      There have been other discussions on whether the stats change to those of the creature (per Beast's Skin, p.140) or you use the vampire's stats. Also, (weak, IMO) arguments from absence about applying Vigor or not, or allowing physical intensity.

                      I probably understated things by not being very careful with my words. I'm personally inclined to use creature stats and add Vigor and physical intensity, which means a high-strength vampire drops several dice in damage to offset ignoring Defense.

                      I'd also let someone deal lethal and/or aggravated (when a frenzying swarm per Claws of the Unholy)--because Beast's Form indicates Disciplines are used normally. And, I'm not scared of dealing with the PC on other levels.

                      --Khanwulf
                      I agree that normal beast skin will use animal stats, but for swarm the book specifically states:roll strength+brawl ignoring defense. A size 0 insect has strength 0 so I'm pretty sure the book means the vampire Strength + brawl

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                      • You missed the massive Speed reduction that accompanies Swarm Form.
                        You missed the fact that when you stack merits (Swarm Form and Claws of the Unholy are both merits) you get the worst aspect/drawbacks of each merit. That means lethal damage that vampires autodowngrade to bashing damage. You're also forgetting that Claws of the Unholy is ONLY useable while in frenzy.

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                        • Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                          You missed the massive Speed reduction that accompanies Swarm Form.
                          You missed the fact that when you stack merits (Swarm Form and Claws of the Unholy are both merits) you get the worst aspect/drawbacks of each merit. That means lethal damage that vampires autodowngrade to bashing damage. You're also forgetting that Claws of the Unholy is ONLY useable while in frenzy.
                          About "massive" speed reduction: flock of birds (size 1) or swarm of flying bees are not less fast than a normal man/vampire (without considering celerity that both of them can have). Crows have speed 14 according to the animals stats.

                          About merits stack, I'm really lost here. A PC can have dozen of merits at once and use them togheter, each one with its own Drawback, and in the specific swarm form doesn't have any drawback.
                          The basic damage in swarm form is lethal (bashing to kindred as every other normal lethal soruce, as per protean 2 claws), non the less if you use protean 4 that specifically allow you to deal lethal even to vampire, the damage stay lethtal, and again, if you have claws of the unholy merit and you are in frenzy, it is aggravated since this merit enanches protean 4 claws.

                          And, about claws of the unhoy: NO, I'm not forgettig that it's useable ONLY in frenzy (or ridig the wave ) .
                          Last edited by Marcus; 11-06-2017, 08:18 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                            I agree that normal beast skin will use animal stats, but for swarm the book specifically states:roll strength+brawl ignoring defense. A size 0 insect has strength 0 so I'm pretty sure the book means the vampire Strength + brawl
                            Yep, which is where your swarm is going to lose damage if your form is insects. You'll be dependent on Vigor and brawl, effectively. But! You're also not reduced by defense, which is significant.

                            Crows are size 2. As are cats. Yes, I find this as much of a bummer as you. Make a homebrew merit to up the swarm creature size limit....

                            I would love a citation that merits take the lower/most restrictive option when multiple merits conflict. This seems directly contradictory to the nature of merits and their sanctity.

                            --Khanwulf

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                            • EDITED AND CAN BE DELETED
                              Last edited by Gurkhal; 11-07-2017, 01:33 AM. Reason: Change my mind.

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                              • Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                                Yep, which is where your swarm is going to lose damage if your form is insects. You'll be dependent on Vigor and brawl, effectively. But! You're also not reduced by defense, which is significant.

                                Crows are size 2. As are cats. Yes, I find this as much of a bummer as you. Make a homebrew merit to up the swarm creature size limit....

                                I would love a citation that merits take the lower/most restrictive option when multiple merits conflict. This seems directly contradictory to the nature of merits and their sanctity.

                                --Khanwulf
                                Yes sorry, crows are size 2. Bats, anyway, are size 1 and have speed 15.

                                The reason why I think the book means the full vampire strength+ brawl is that you are not just a bug, a bat or a rat, you are a swarm.
                                So I guess that more strong the PC is more the swarm is big and able to deal damages.

                                In fact if you are going to consider strength 0 and you don't have vigor, you will not deal any damage, which is weird to me. Even compared to the swarm condition in other manual the swarm deal up to 4 damages per turn (automatically).
                                Last edited by Marcus; 11-07-2017, 07:13 AM.

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