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Because I'm crazy: The Tremere in 2e

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  • Because I'm crazy: The Tremere in 2e

    So, I know I had already started other projects, but for some reason, an old idea of mine started cropping up in my head. What if the Tremere Vampires still existed? What if The Legacy was only one of Theban's experiments? I've worked all night on this, and I'm hoping that the time spent is obvious. While it's still most definitely in draft format, and it relies on Mage spoilers since 2e isn't released yet, here's my release of the conversion of the Tremere to 2e Requiem.

    Essentially, they're a combination clan/covenant/bloodline all in one, with several inherent banes and social limitations made up for by the very powerful Bloodline Gift they receive: Thaumaturgy. Thaumaturgy allows Tremere to gain a limited number of Mage spells, even being able to cast them (for the most part) with the same flexibility of a Mage. This isn't like in the (classic) world of darkness, where the Tremere had to entirely redevelop their blood magic and in the end it was just another form of blood sorcery; the Tremere have access to the Supernal, if perhaps stifled in a way by the static nature of immortality.

    Obviously, Mage 2e isn't out yet, so you'll see a lot of (Insert actual stuff here when Mage 2e is released) type comments in there, but I did the best I could to make it as complete as possible with Spoilers alone. Obviously, when Mage 2e is released, I'll go ahead and update it to reflect the final mechanics.

    (Just to nip it in the bud ahead of time: If you don't think Vampires should have access to the Supernal, or otherwise don't think the bloodline should exist, this thread isn't for you, and saying you dislike the notion doesn't help me. Keep criticisms constructive)



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  • #2
    Aw, I was hoping that their Bloodline Gift would be the ability to use Mage casting mechanics with Disciplines, suffering from Frenzy rather than Paradox.

    Actually, I might work something out for Blood Sorcery along those lines once Mage comes out.


    I have decided, after some thought, that I don't really feel happy on these forums. I might decide to come back to post. Who knows - but right now, I'm gone.

    So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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    • #3
      Damn... This is actually a pretty good conversion.

      I've been honestly thinking of ways on how to convert the oWoD Tremere into something usable in the Chronicles of Darkness (then, the New World of Darkness) for quite a while, now. But there was always something in the drafts I did that seem lacking. Kudos to you, then, for pulling it off before me.


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      • #4
        Supernal magic won't work for vampires - it's simply is not possible to work with the vampire template, just like it won't work with werewolves, changelinges or Prometheans. Most probable theory is that Supernal Magic relies on Awakened soul and vampires cannot have this - even if Kindred had a soul, it's damaged now after Embrace ( like changelings have "tattered" by Durance in Arcadia ). Blood Sorcery, sure, it's works. Unique Discipline on Blood or Breath - yes, very much. But nothing like Supernal Magic. Paradox would simply devour them all.

        This is exactly, why first Tremere vampires died when trying to consume mages souls. I had somewhere idea on making Kindred Bloodline that is compatible with revised take on Tremere Legacy from Left Hand Path. Let me just search a bit...

        Oh, here it is!
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        Or that original Tremere Bloodline Kindred survived Abyssal Intrusion remaking the mages in to the Liches they are in Mage. Those (vampire) Tremere went to hiding for centuries, afraid of the bastards that become Soul Reapers and incorporated almost every other Reaper school in to them. Vampiric Tremere returned as secret faction inside Ordo Dracul that want's to take back at the Liches in Awakened society, come over for vampiric aptheosis and world domination, muahahahahah!
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        More thinking of Tremere vampires in new World of Darkness, I would make them both Ordo Dracul secret faction and Mekhet Bloodline. From the Mage Left Hand Path, Tremere Liches lore says they were slaves to Theban that made some mages in to Breath-Eaters - vampires surviving by breath, not blood.

        As this, I would make those that survived the massacre by Liches to finally be freed from Theban slavery and become Mekhet Bloodline with special Discipline of Blood usage ( maybe called Sanguine, or something ), with final power of surviving on Breath, not Blood - five different powers per Discipline in Requiem 2ED are still a thing? I would give them some power over Blood Bonds, Blood usage and finally, on living on Breath of victims. They were see as threat to some Kindred from similarities of they powers to those of the Strix and their feeding habits.

        Our Tremere Bloodline would gone in to secrecy by centuries, developing more and more Blood Sorcery they stolen from Theban ( not their Disicpilne ) and when Ordo Dracul come to being, they infiltrated it and make a large secret faction in Dragons secret society. Now, Tremere Kindred are Ordo Dracul that practice their Blood Sorcery and have very antagonistic views on Lancea et Sanctum ( and probably Invictus ) - but, mainly, they want to dwell in to mages society to uncover Tremere Liches and plan, after centuries in hiding, to take care Awakened soul-eating parasites that almost killed the millenia before. They are Ordo's faction dedicated to contacts with mages, inflirtrating Orders in secret to uncover Thremere Liches in them.

        Damn, I now need to remade mine NPC Ordo Dracul Prince of the London as the part of Tremere sect and throw in to our Mage game.

        They do not feel to me as whole Covenant, or that different from Ordo Dracul to make them really new Covenant onto itself. They will work better now as faction admits the Dragons.
        And more on the Tremere as Faction inside Ordo Dracul...

        Originally posted by Vyrkolash View Post
        The conceptual difference between the Tremere and the Odo Dracul isn't superstition vs science. The Tremere were mystics, but research and experimentation were part of their mystical learning process. The Ordo is a secret society with a mystical mission and pseudo-scientific methodologies reminiscent of parapsychology and victorian era spiritualism. The typical dragon has more in common with Dr. Frankenstein than with Albert Einstein.

        Both groups study the occult, and both rationalize their approach. The difference between them is that the Tremere cultivate control over the world around them, while the Ordo develops control over their own state of being. The Tremere make sense as part of the Ordo if they are considered renegades or degenerates. Mainstream Dragons would view them with mistrust or disappointment, because they "lost the mission" by focusing on cultivating mystical power rather than overcoming the curse. At best they might be seen as a necessary evil, if they make themselves useful by helping to secure Wyrms' nests or fighting other covenants.
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

        And that's why Temere makes so nice inside Faction - on first glace they seem to work with Ordo goals. But more you go deeper, you see those participants would work like secret society inside secret society of Dracul - great faction to use in your game.
        Originally posted by Vyrkolash View Post

        Fair point, that would make them like the Sworn of the Ladder or the Sworn of the Locust. Come to think of it the Ordo Dracul covenant book does describe one of the "Transcendental Camps" (the schools of thought within the order) as "Liches" who believe transcendence is about having ever increasing control over oneself and the rest of the world. The Tremere could function as followers and champions of that philosophy. Sort of a "Sworn of the Pyramid" faction.

        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-04-2016, 07:09 AM.


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        • #5
          "Because of their static nature..." You got your Masquerade in my 2e Requiem. While undead, Requiem vampires are quite adaptable and subject to changes of all ilks. "Static" is an old carry over from the previous WoD, and not really applicable as a reason for anything in either Requiem OR Awakening. The reason Creative Thaumaturgy works is because you're working with raw knowledge, which is widely applicable. There is no Stasis, Entropy, Dynamics trinity.

          These Tremere are trying to be their own covenant, effectively. What do they do that relates to the All Night Society? How are they involved in vampire plots? In a standard game, Inv and Carth are opposed, the LS and CotC are opposed, the Ordo and strix/Brood serve as wild cards that upset the balance, and the VII tries to kill everyone. Where would these guys fit in? From the sounds of it, they're rejecting getting involved in the All Night Society. Even the Ordo Dracul engages in it over feeding rights and access to territory. This is kind of important, because you need some reason for there to be a group of vampire PCs working together. Plot hooks are important. Frankly, these guys sound more like NPC antagonists than anything PC-friendly.

          How did they get the ability to diablarize supernatural souls without a Coil? It should be noted that, as per DtD pact rules, taking the soul of a supernatural causes agg damage; this is not a the result of mage souls, but changeling, werewolf, or any other supernatural in the game, save potentially Prometheans. Its likely the destruction of the original Tremere vamps in the story of the Legacy are a direct result of this effect. Still, where and how is this possible?

          This is supposed to replace clan, but has not clan bane that activates with Humanity 6.

          The Tainted Condition is not the same thing as registering as a diablarist in 2e. There's no more black veins in auras. You have to ask, specifically, "Did this person commit Diablarie?" with Auspex 2. There is a precident for being possessed by Strix to register as a diablarist, so its possible, but you'd have to spell it out specifically. Without this, there's no reason to be "reviled" when discovered. Futhermore? If someone came from the Carthians to this "bloodline" using Rite of Return and Plausable Deniability, there would be nothing to detect. Something to keep in mind.

          The overwhelming majority of Humanity breaking points involve doing something that makes you realize you're no longer human. Injuring someone over blood. Surviving car crashes that should kill you. Surviving a century. The only points of overlap with Wisdom would be Premeditated killing, and that's at Humanity 2 (there's no Humanity 0 breaking point). Even your example of surviving a car crash with a protection spell is kind of silly, because the Death Arcana protection spell grants the same damage reduction that vamps get from their unliving body, which is why the vamp would survive the crash in the first place. So, anything a vampire would survive, a human could with a protection spell. Most of the Humnaity breaking points at 7 and below reflect being immortal, avoiding humans or doing something out of bloodlust. There's not a lot of overlap with "doing magic stuff wisely." You're going to need customized Humanity breaking points if you want this part of the bane to mean anything.

          Kindred Nature is an inappropriate theme for Thaumaturgy to follow. You cannot affect Kindred (or any supernatural, really) at such a base without Archmastery.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            This is exactly, why first Tremere vampires died when trying to consume mages souls.
            Actually, that might not be it. In Demon, we know that trying to take the soul of another supernatural cause aggravated damage as one supernatural being tries to interact with another supernatural nature. If we apply this to the Tremere story, we figure that its the same result of from eating a soul, not trying to cast Supernal magic. And we do have the Dead Wolves bloodline, which mingles spirit magic with undead power.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by falco1029 View Post
              (Just to nip it in the bud ahead of time: If you don't think Vampires should have access to the Supernal, or otherwise don't think the bloodline should exist, this thread isn't for you, and saying you dislike the notion doesn't help me. Keep criticisms constructive)
              Come on people, the OP specifically asked you not to do this.

              That's just rude.


              I have decided, after some thought, that I don't really feel happy on these forums. I might decide to come back to post. Who knows - but right now, I'm gone.

              So good bye, good luck, and have a nice day.

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              • #8
                < Goes his other way as OP points he want to broke all the Templates rules >


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by amechra View Post
                  Aw, I was hoping that their Bloodline Gift would be the ability to use Mage casting mechanics with Disciplines, suffering from Frenzy rather than Paradox.

                  Actually, I might work something out for Blood Sorcery along those lines once Mage comes out.
                  I had the idea of originally allowing them to suffer Frenzy instead of Paradox, but ended up phasing it out since I decided against letting them use Reach above their limit anyway. That said, mage casting rules for blood sorcery could be interesting, but it would be difficult as a bloodline gift since not all vampires have a form of blood sorcery, and most typical disciplines wouldn't benefit as much from mage rules.


                  Originally posted by Deionscribe View Post
                  Damn... This is actually a pretty good conversion.

                  I've been honestly thinking of ways on how to convert the oWoD Tremere into something usable in the Chronicles of Darkness (then, the New World of Darkness) for quite a while, now. But there was always something in the drafts I did that seem lacking. Kudos to you, then, for pulling it off before me.
                  Thanks! And yeah I'd been thinking on it a while too. I toyed with some ideas during 1e but they basically came out as an excuse to use the Translation guide, and it has its own rules for it anyway, so I didn't bother back then. I don't know what it was that made me decide to go this route for 2e, I guess a bout of creativity just hit me.

                  Originally posted by MCN View Post
                  "Because of their static nature..." You got your Masquerade in my 2e Requiem. While undead, Requiem vampires are quite adaptable and subject to changes of all ilks. "Static" is an old carry over from the previous WoD, and not really applicable as a reason for anything in either Requiem OR Awakening. The reason Creative Thaumaturgy works is because you're working with raw knowledge, which is widely applicable. There is no Stasis, Entropy, Dynamics trinity.
                  Hmm, that's a very good point. I'll go ahead and tweak the wordings in the document that mention it, and call it another property of the blood.

                  These Tremere are trying to be their own covenant, effectively. What do they do that relates to the All Night Society? How are they involved in vampire plots? In a standard game, Inv and Carth are opposed, the LS and CotC are opposed, the Ordo and strix/Brood serve as wild cards that upset the balance, and the VII tries to kill everyone. Where would these guys fit in? From the sounds of it, they're rejecting getting involved in the All Night Society. Even the Ordo Dracul engages in it over feeding rights and access to territory. This is kind of important, because you need some reason for there to be a group of vampire PCs working together. Plot hooks are important. Frankly, these guys sound more like NPC antagonists than anything PC-friendly.
                  Playing a Tremere game would be something more like playing a mage game where you have to worry about successfully managing to Poach blood (To oversimplify it a large amount). They do indeed hide from the all night society in general, because when they do learn of the tremere, it tends to go badly. When not playing a Tremere game, they'd likely be antagonists or mysterious NPCs. It's sort of like how you'd rarely ever allow someone in Belial's Brood to play with other covenants in the same tabletop; they're not fully expected to mesh, though it is possible with some creative justifications (which is why I made the note that the Tremere occasionally join another Covenant incognito).

                  How did they get the ability to diablarize supernatural souls without a Coil? It should be noted that, as per DtD pact rules, taking the soul of a supernatural causes agg damage; this is not a the result of mage souls, but changeling, werewolf, or any other supernatural in the game, save potentially Prometheans. Its likely the destruction of the original Tremere vamps in the story of the Legacy are a direct result of this effect. Still, where and how is this possible?
                  Did I leave a mention of supernatural diablerie in there? I thought I had taken any mention of diablerizing non-vampires out; originally I had ideas revolving around that but went another direction. Though I may throw back in a mention of their tendency towards Mage blood when it's available. Regardless, can you quote the section so I can excise it?

                  This is supposed to replace clan, but has not clan bane that activates with Humanity 6.
                  This is me pulling a stupid and forgetting clan banes activate at Humanity 6. Their Tainted condition is meant to be the 'clan' portion of the bane, I'll tweak it just a bit to make it clear it works that way.

                  The Tainted Condition is not the same thing as registering as a diablarist in 2e. There's no more black veins in auras. You have to ask, specifically, "Did this person commit Diablarie?" with Auspex 2. There is a precident for being possessed by Strix to register as a diablarist, so its possible, but you'd have to spell it out specifically. Without this, there's no reason to be "reviled" when discovered. Futhermore? If someone came from the Carthians to this "bloodline" using Rite of Return and Plausable Deniability, there would be nothing to detect. Something to keep in mind.
                  I know it's different, that's why I specifically stated they register as Diablerists to appropriate powers. If you ask if they're a Diablerist, you'll get the answer of "Yes" (or whatever appropriate visual manifestation), even if they aren't, AND they have to deal with the Tainted condition.

                  Rite of return allows Carthians to bypass the normal limits on status, but the Tremere impose their own limitation; if you have more than 1 status elsewhere, you're a risk and will probably be dealt with. That's not a mechanical limit so much as it's just what they do; and the Council of Seven will know. So, it's unlikely that a Carthian Tremere will live to the point of Plausible Deniability. And since Tremere start off as Tremere, there's similarly no way to be Carthian first and then Tremere later; if you're not in the bloodline, you're not in the bloodline.

                  The overwhelming majority of Humanity breaking points involve doing something that makes you realize you're no longer human. Injuring someone over blood. Surviving car crashes that should kill you. Surviving a century. The only points of overlap with Wisdom would be Premeditated killing, and that's at Humanity 2 (there's no Humanity 0 breaking point). Even your example of surviving a car crash with a protection spell is kind of silly, because the Death Arcana protection spell grants the same damage reduction that vamps get from their unliving body, which is why the vamp would survive the crash in the first place. So, anything a vampire would survive, a human could with a protection spell. Most of the Humnaity breaking points at 7 and below reflect being immortal, avoiding humans or doing something out of bloodlust. There's not a lot of overlap with "doing magic stuff wisely." You're going to need customized Humanity breaking points if you want this part of the bane to mean anything.
                  Humanity 10: Lying in Defense of the Masquerade (Unlikely for a vampire to have 10, but 8 can happen, and you can certainly use magic to aid lies), Spending more than one Vitae in a night (Using it to fuel magic counts. Again, Humanity 8 could happen)
                  9: Utilizing Superhuman physical prowess (Definitely possible with magic), Feeding from the Unwilling or Unknowing (magic can certainly help with that one way or another). And all of these would be Humanity 7, something any starting character could need to deal with. Even watching someone eat a meal with scrying could apply, though granted, a bit more unlikely.
                  8: Depriving of another's consent with a Discipline (Granted, in this case, you do need to basically change the wording to 'Thaumaturgy Spell', but breaking points are suggestions. The point is, this would apply at Humanity 6). Spending most of a day in the sun (Definitely could be aided my magic)
                  7: Injuring someone over blood (with magic). Humanity 5
                  6: Feeding from a child (Using magic to help with hunting at all in the process counts). Humanity 4
                  etc.

                  And as mentioned, those are all just suggestions anyway, new ones could come into play at ST discretion.


                  Kindred Nature is an inappropriate theme for Thaumaturgy to follow. You cannot affect Kindred (or any supernatural, really) at such a base without Archmastery.
                  Right, what I meant there was specifically using Death magic to affect Kindred bodies as if via Life magic. That is, using Death to transform and manipulate the vampiric form on a physical level. Kindred Body sounds like such a boring path name; do you have any suggestions to make it clear that doesn't allow the path to break any rules but still sounds more interesting than the Kindred body?

                  EDIT: Kindred Anatomy might be a bit more clear, and sounds better, I'll use that unless someone comes up with something better.
                  Last edited by falco1029; 02-04-2016, 11:35 AM.



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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by amechra View Post

                    Come on people, the OP specifically asked you not to do this.

                    That's just rude.
                    Thank you,



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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by falco1029 View Post
                      Playing a Tremere game would be something more like playing a mage game where you have to worry about successfully managing to Poach blood (To oversimplify it a large amount). They do indeed hide from the all night society in general, because when they do learn of the tremere, it tends to go badly.
                      Umm? What about mixed games? I'm really not a fan of your binary approach here. Even in settings that introduce the Jiang Shi, the Phantoms can work alongside the Kindred, despite being wildly different and needing to hide things. Do you have a group interested in playing them? Because, to be honest, I doubt you'll get an entire troupe who want to play the same clan / covenant as everyone else.

                      Futhermore.... I can't quite say its playing a mage game either. Mages are driven by their Obsessions and the need for Mysteries. These guys? Not so much. There's none of that innate draw in. These guys may as well be naval gazers. On the other hand, one of the major struggles in Vampire is against ennui. Boredom of the ages. That's why you have the Danse Macabre, why the All Night Society. Entertainment. What do your mage-vamps have? They don't engage in the Danse because they're too scared, they don't have Obsessions or study Mysteries by default (not all of them have the sense for magic, and even then, they have to activate it when you buy the Devotion, meaning they can walk right past stuff and not have it peak curiosity).


                      It's sort of like how you'd rarely ever allow someone in Belial's Brood to play with other covenants in the same tabletop; they're not fully expected to mesh, though it is possible with some creative justifications (which is why I made the note that the Tremere occasionally join another Covenant incognito).
                      Actually, there are several times I've had successful Brood characters in mixed groups. They have to be responcible players that won't go murder-kill-happy at the drop of a dime, but that's true of anyone playing Brood in any kind of game. It works well.

                      Did I leave a mention of supernatural diablerie in there? I thought I had taken any mention of diablerizing non-vampires out; originally I had ideas revolving around that but went another direction. Though I may throw back in a mention of their tendency towards Mage blood when it's available. Regardless, can you quote the section so I can excise it?
                      You didn't, but its part of the established cannon attached to the name Tremere; its lack is startling and kind of odd. At this point, you have pretty much no thematic or historical ties to the Tremere, either Masquerade or current CofD version. If you use the name, you should probably include some.

                      I know it's different, that's why I specifically stated they register as Diablerists to appropriate powers. If you ask if they're a Diablerist, you'll get the answer of "Yes" (or whatever appropriate visual manifestation), even if they aren't, AND they have to deal with the Tainted condition.
                      But you didn't specifically state it. I'm suggesting you reword it, because that's not clear.

                      Rite of return allows Carthians to bypass the normal limits on status, but the Tremere impose their own limitation; if you have more than 1 status elsewhere, you're a risk and will probably be dealt with. That's not a mechanical limit so much as it's just what they do; and the Council of Seven will know. So, it's unlikely that a Carthian Tremere will live to the point of Plausible Deniability. And since Tremere start off as Tremere, there's similarly no way to be Carthian first and then Tremere later; if you're not in the bloodline, you're not in the bloodline.
                      That's ignoring the magic of another covenant, which specifically allows you to break any social penalties like that. The only barrier to getting status everywhere before has always been social repercussions. Carthian Law bypasses that with the strength of its own magic.


                      Humanity 10: Lying in Defense of the Masquerade (Unlikely for a vampire to have 10, but 8 can happen, and you can certainly use magic to aids lies), Spending more than one Vitae in a night (Using it to fuel magic counts. Again, Humanity 8 could happen)
                      9: Utilizing Superhuman physical prowess (Definitely possible with magic), Feeding from the Unwilling or Unknowing (magic can certainly help with that one way or another). And all of these would be Humanity 7, something any starting character could need to deal with. Even watching someone eat a meal with scrying could apply, though granted, a bit more unlikely.
                      8: Depriving of another's consent with a Discipline (Granted, in this case, you do need to basically change the wording to 'Thaumaturgy Spell', but breaking points are suggestions. The point is, this would apply at Humanity 6). Spending most of a day in the sun (Definitely could be aided my magic)
                      7: Injuring someone over blood (with magic). Humanity 5
                      6: Feeding from a child (Using magic to help with hunting at all in the process counts). Humanity 4
                      etc.
                      I did say 7 and below. Which involves the overwhelming majority of vampires, since most PCs never raise Humanity up that high. So the top three don't address the issue at all. After Humanity 6, which is quite common for several reasons, none of which have to do with magic, there's pretty much no effect. Its just a waste of text. Its something that sounds good on paper, but I don't see it playing out in reality.

                      Furthermore, the reason why Wisdom is so harsh is because of the deliberate intention of causing harm through envisioning something when you cast magic. Using magic to boost your charismatic appeal before hunting does not resonate with how Wisdom works; its meant to be something you are deliberately focusing on, a choice you are making. Hurting someone over blood is generally going to be a heat-of-moment issue - which doesn't tie into the premediation that is so critical to Wisdom checks.

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                      • #12
                        I like it.

                        Perhaps rather than limiting the mage 'spells', limit their arcana. Vitae, instead of mana, for powering up anything that requires it. That way they still get a large toolbox and aren't just getting another Discipline that happens to be magic.

                        Maybe you could have a clan whose leader was able to master all the arcana, but they've never 'bred' true, and so everyone else is a bloodline with access to perhaps one or two arcana each. That way you have some rivalry and variance among them, but also a reason to be hesitant about the embrace, for fear of thinning the blood further.

                        The bigger question would be what do they do with it. Are they subject to the obsession for mysteries that mages have? Because that offers a lot of plot opportunities, especially for someone as limited as a vampire who only has access to certain arcana. Perhaps the mysteries would be based around their arcana.

                        Silly me, didn't read the actual conversion so some of this post may be dated. I do think their power should be expanded upon, however, to encompass entire arcana and not just a few rotes.
                        Last edited by nofather; 02-04-2016, 12:21 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Why not allow them to use the blood sorcery: blasphemy and sacraments system as a bases but alter it with some mage rule? Such as mage casting time instead extended roles, have their sorcery use the potency and withstand system from mage, only allow them to roll once for the spell but in turn let them have yantras.
                          As for casting in turns option instead of hours let them take a penalty equal to the highest theme needed for the spell (exp. a spell that needs 5 divination takes a -5 while a protection 1 only takes a -1).

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                          • #14
                            I think I realize the problem I have here. You haven't quite designed vampire-mages. You haven't recreated the Tremere. You have scared vampires who have the ability to cast some Supernal spells. The defining feature of mages is to study magic. They're all about knowledge. The signature ability of Mage is their Sight. Passive Mage Sight is automatic, and there's two automatic higher levels that I'm fairly sure are free of cost. You're encouraged to study anything magical at the drop of a hat. The Paradox/Reach system is set up to encourage mages to focus on the lower level magic, which includes Knowing/Unveiling practices.

                            The defining feature of your peeps here is to cast magic. They really don't care about studying, other than getting more spells to cast. There's nothing but encouragement to cast the bigger spells and race for Mastery of a Path. And then? They have none of the mage's hubris, save for "my magic is better than yours! nya,nya!" and they're too afraid to do anything with it. Even the original Tremere of both WoD and CofD had dreams of world domination.

                            There is no story here other than amassing power you dont want to use


                            Take a look at the Dead Wolves. Their defining feature isn't to become undead wolf shifters. Its to become bonded to a Totem and Auspice. That's their story, their connection.
                            Last edited by MCN; 02-04-2016, 01:00 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blakemikizuki View Post
                              Why not allow them to use the blood sorcery: blasphemy and sacraments system as a bases but alter it with some mage rule? Such as mage casting time instead extended roles, have their sorcery use the potency and withstand system from mage, only allow them to roll once for the spell but in turn let them have yantras.
                              As for casting in turns option instead of hours let them take a penalty equal to the highest theme needed for the spell (exp. a spell that needs 5 divination takes a -5 while a protection 1 only takes a -1).
                              I was thinking of doing something similar once Mage 2e comes out. The Sacriments and Blasphemies rules obviously used Mage spellcasting as a basis, so I think it would be interesting to see what a 2e version would look like. I probably won't actually use it though, just seems like a cool thought experiment.


                              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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