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How does Celerity influence a footchase. Vampire second eition

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  • How does Celerity influence a footchase. Vampire second eition

    If someone is in a foot chase, would celerity allow you to instantly catch as you can instantly reach a distance equal to your speed?

  • Rathamus
    replied
    It would take 2 vitae to both interrupt the action and get the speed boost but yes that would work. Celerity is supposed to be ridiculous like that.

    Have you ever tried to shoot while moving? I'd let you try it but never with morre than a chance die, and give a penalty on the chase roll too.

    Chases usually aren't very well fleshed out in rpg's for some reason. Even though some of the great scenes in TV and movies are chase scenes, RPG's tend to focus squarely on combat.

    As for the head start, you would still have to either correctly guess where he went after leaving your sight, or spend time backtracking all over the place in an attempt to find him. That said, with that much speed, you're still likely to figure it out in time if you're willing and able to spend loads of vitae to do it.
    I know some don't like to use set time measurements for rounds etc. but I find it useful. If a round is a few seconds and the guy is a minute or even half of that ahead of you, it could take a LOT of vitae to check every turn he could have made in that time.
    Last edited by Rathamus; 08-01-2016, 04:15 PM.

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    This is why I prefer to interpret "turn" as an abstract measurement of narrative time like "scene" and "chapter" instead of a specific number of seconds/minutes. If a Combat turn and a Chase turn are both just Turns, you don't need to put hard barriers between when one sub-game ends and the other begins. Trying to make progress towards escaping a pursuer, trying to make progress towards catching a quarry, and shooting your guns can all just be actions that can be taken on one's turn. If you also use the abstract range bands from the Hurt Locker preview, you can even figure out what range the runner is from the gunner without having to do algebra.
    Last edited by Charlaquin; 07-31-2016, 09:22 PM.

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  • Wunderkid
    replied
    At what point does it leave combat and become a foot chase? Because given the whole double multiplication on sprinting + celerity even with a 5 turn head start in combat the runner could be caught.

    So does someone declare they are running from combat and that initiates the foot chase mechanics?

    Or do you have to run away from combat in a way they can't follow in a single turn to start a chase?

    And can't the person with celerity wait for them to declare where they are running to. The second they take their first step activate the interupt part of Celerity and stand in front of them stopping their movement?

    It just feels like there needs to be a method of transitioning between combat and chase because character A may be all about running away from danger and character B is all about punching faces. So A wants chase mechanics and B wants combat mechanics. This is less important with NPCs but if it is two players?

    And lastly what about ranged. If I have a gun and comparable movement then could I take pot shots while chasing? Would it then transition to combat movement and then back to chase?

    The main thing is Parkour because that obviously favours the chase scene in a big way.

    And if I've missed something blindingly obvious I apologise I've not had the chance to sit down with the chronicles of darkness book properly yet

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  • Malus
    replied
    Ok, so here's how I'd go: If it's a literal foot-chase, not a Chase? Add the celerity dots to the successes. That's a good abstract representation, that can compete between multiple super-speed characters.

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  • Rathamus
    replied
    It does seem excessive but I would say if you spend the whole turn sprinting instead of taking any other action, then the doubled number should then become your base Speed. Though on the subject of excessive, 4th level Disciplines should seem excessive.
    So (AxB)x(C+D+Etc) - The base speed and full turn running multiply with each other to become base speed, then other factors which multiply speed adding with each other. This is entirely my opinion an not official in any way.
    Last edited by Rathamus; 07-31-2016, 05:22 PM.

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  • Marcus
    replied
    Celerity multiplies the speed of celerity+1
    So if you run you double your baseline speed and then multiply it for celerity+1

    (10×2)×5=100 ft per turn.

    if you have to multiply for multiple time you simply multiply as you said: AxBxCxDxE....

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  • Wunderkid
    replied
    Regarding celerity this actually brings up a point myself and a friend were discussing about the system.

    So say a character has celerity 4. Base speed of 10. In a turn with celerity that let's him move 50 correct?

    Now what if he uses the giving up his instant action to 'double his normal pace'.

    Will this
    A) double his 10 to a 20 and then multiply that by 5 giving him 100 movement.
    B) double his base speed to 20 then apply the 40 celerity gives him as if he weren't running finishing at 60ft

    Basically when multiple instances of multiplication occur within this system do you go (AxB)xC or (AxB)+(AxC). Where A is the thing being multiplied and B/C being the things doing the multiplying.

    And then if you find another thing that multiplies your speed then things can get pretty insane.

    Is there any official say on dealing with multipliers? Or how would you run it?

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  • Basilistik
    replied
    The celerity-chase issue has always bothered me. With the WoD book what I used to do was grant celerity+1 additional success. My reason was predicated in the old bonus for a head start.

    The bonus stated that a 10 yard difference granted a +1 bonus. Celerity speed multiplication is more akin to a teleport than anything else and since a chase turn last more than a combat turn, it was as if that turn the vampire had a head start or more covered ground on a successful roll.

    Technically speaking, it should've been a (speed/10 yards)* (celerity+1) rounded down additional success. Additional success because the discipline shouldn't make it more likely to avoid environmental obstacles just cover more ground when they do.

    I still don't have the CofD book but I'm sure to get it soon. I'm very interested in the new sistems, they seem awsome. However, from what I gathered, this issue doesn't appear to be resolved. What happens when two vampires with different levels of celerity enter a chase? You can say they are ambush predators but they also like to play with their food, and the Gangrel are notorious for their stamina and changing into four legs and animals for endurance tests and chases, and it isn't unlikely for they to have a dot of celerity. What then?

    In my opinion, with celerity, it should apply a head start bonus with each successful roll. But I lack the new rules complete understanding as to know how much that would be.

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  • malonkey1
    replied
    What about Forced March from Carthians? That could certainly be applicable.

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  • MCN
    replied
    *shrugs* To each their own. You're right, at the end of the day, what matters is we all have fun gaming. Its not like we're sitting at the table arguing. Even then, I wouldn't do that, since the ST has final say over stuff.

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by MCN View Post
    Social Maneuvering does use the usual method of social rolls. Its an extended roll, possibly contested, to acomplish something with a target number of successes. I'm sorry, but I just disagree with everything you just said, both here this time, and in other situations you've brought it up. I just see absolutely no way that I can agree with your take on the matter. I don't think that your way or mindset makes the system work better, and I think a lot of your underlying assumptions about the system are flawed.
    *shrug* Ok. If my way of looking at the system doesn't work for you, you don't have to look at it that way. At the end of the day, we're using the same system so I think it's kind of a weird point of contention to focus on how we each conceptualize it. I find my way of presenting it has helped a lot of folks who struggle with the system to better understand and enjoy it. YMMV, and that's fine by me.
    Last edited by Charlaquin; 05-28-2016, 07:21 PM.

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  • MCN
    replied
    Social Maneuvering does use the usual method of social rolls. Its an extended roll, possibly contested, to acomplish something with a target number of successes. I'm sorry, but I just disagree with everything you just said, both here this time, and in other situations you've brought it up. I just see absolutely no way that I can agree with your take on the matter. I don't think that your way or mindset makes the system work better, and I think a lot of your underlying assumptions about the system are flawed.

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  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by MCN View Post
    Ehhh.... I'm going to disagree with you. If Forcing Doors is the default, then that pretty much negates a large chunk of abilities, merits, kiths, and more that focus on manipulating Impression levels. From my experience, general Social Maneuvering is the default, and Forcing Doors is the extreme case where you put high pressure on someone to force your way through.
    I mean, manipulating impressions is still useful because it makes it faster and easier to reduce the penalty for the Forcing Doors roll, or even outright circumvent it. Really there is no default, both methods are valid, and equally important parts of the system - ideally, you should be using each in conjunction with the other. But I've found that explaining it from a perspective of Forcing Doors being that same one-roll Social action people are used to using, and long-term Social Maneuvering being a way to decrease the penalty on that roll helps people break out of the mindset that all Social Maneuvering attempts are either a painfully slow process or outright coercion. Use Forcing Doors more and make high Impression levels attainable, and the system works much better than it looks like it does on paper.

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  • MCN
    replied
    Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
    Ok but that doesn't mean they would do poorly at endurance running, especially with the whole "never get tired" thing. I would they have quite the advantage even without Celerity because if you've ever sprinted before in your life, you know how quickly you tire and slow down, but the Lick could sprint at full speed for miles if he wanted.
    Well, never getting tired is taken into account with the new rules. Compared to a werewolf, who gets speed boosts that last a scene? Its not much.

    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    I realize this is a little off-topic, but the Social Maneuvering system is really not as wildly different from social actions without the system as it looks. The key is, think of Forcing Doors as the default. It's a single-roll, pass/fail attempt to get someone to do what you want, that prevents you from making repeated attempts if you fail. Just like Social Actions that don't use the SM system are usually handled. Doors just serve as a standardized way to determine what penalty to apply to the roll. The more involved system of Impressions and opening Doors one at a time at longer intervals is a way to reduce the penalty on the Forcing Doors roll, or if you have enough time or a good enough impression, to circumvent the roll entirely. The system works great, as long as the players aren't afraid to use Forcing Doors and the ST is generous with Impressions.
    Ehhh.... I'm going to disagree with you. If Forcing Doors is the default, then that pretty much negates a large chunk of abilities, merits, kiths, and more that focus on manipulating Impression levels. From my experience, general Social Maneuvering is the default, and Forcing Doors is the extreme case where you put high pressure on someone to force your way through.

    Leave a comment:

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