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Weird Experiment: Changeling Meets Requiem, The Admonitoria

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    By Lower Depths I assume you mean Lower Mysteries. Lower Depths is something else altogether. I just want to point it out for others since I was quite confused until I realized what you meant.
    Too much time since I read the books, and I'm without them by now. Sorry, and thanks for the clarification.

    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    This is really cool. But it occurs to me can these Fae Vampires join Changeling Courts and Vampire Covenants? Do they have they're own organizations instead?
    Whatever you want. I see no reason whatsoever to bound affiliation to any organization to mechanically being a given splat.

    So, if the character wants to join a given Covenant and/or Court, and convinces the members to be accepted, I see no reason for this not to work. Actually, in my chronicles it isn't even too rare to have a member to one organization that isn't at all a member of the usual splat. It runs completely on shared interests.

    That said, the ST should analyze and work any mechanical benefit of the membership actually tied to the splat at an individual level. It is impossible to address every possibility.

    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

    This is a very interesting idea. I'm reminded of all those VtM powers that involved sending one's beast out to do X or Y, at risk of it getting destroyed and then... you're F'ed? Anyway, it was always unclear what might happen to the vampire who's beast is lost somehow. This points that perhaps that "hole" might get filled by--something else! (Note: I'm note encyclopedic enough in terms of VtR powers to remember if loss-of-beast is a clear side-effect. Please forgive me.)

    A vampire who loses control and doesn't become a simple killing machine... but becomes simply in pursuit of an alien set of objectives, would work thematically just as well. Maybe a spirit/idigam? Maybe a particularly weak Strix (a failed possession attempt perhaps?), maybe a ghost? Plus, it gives the character a very different inner monologue.

    Going in a different direction for a minute: I'd still like to see the same balanced combination approach taken to a mage->vampire, as applied for the Admonitoria. We've got the Tremere reverted to their Ars Magica origins, but that leaves a big gap in the "sure I have cosmic power but not going to live forever" area.

    Something I was intending to flesh out would involve a ghoul mage who wants that "lives forever" part and is willing to sacrifice Swiss Army knife magic and potential ascension for it. Would involve a custom Legacy showing how to transition rotes into vitae-fueled abilities (VtR 2.0e treatment might make them tied to merits for each of the spheres), and impose a penalty on true magic based on how much older than a normal lifespan our ghoul-mage lasts. Eventually, he'll be unable to perform true magic without serious paradox, but should have a good stock of vitae-fueled, paradox-free effects on-hand (Paths, whatever).

    This Legacy was going to be the actual genesis for "Tremere" hermetic blood thaumaturgy, but that's a story to be written.

    --Khanwulf
    As another baseline for this stuff, I think it should remain in the realm of "the unlikely encounter of worlds", instead of any single entity being able to just take the path for the Mixed Splat. So it is too much for a Strix to simply decide to strike the Bargain as a Geist, nor a Mage should find a Legacy so able to truly make her into another Major Splat.

    That said, lets construct. Maybe in the Vampire-Geist, we could use the Draugr as a starting point? It is death to the Humanitas in the Kindred. What if a Geist, taking the leave of the last remnants of a human soul from the undead body as a true death, strikes the Bargain with said soul, giving it another take in the fight against the Beast? The result is a second chance, but not the kind the Geist expected to create, once it finds out it will not be the only thing influencing the host.

    Now, how could the Embrace spoil the Awakening, or the Awakening affect the Cursed? The first and most obvious, an Embrace on a mortal in the verge of Awakening, or even during the process of Awakening. On the Legacy take, I do not think of a Legacy that turns a Mage into a Vampire. But what about a Mage teaching a Legacy to a Vampire? What about a Vampire that braves through a incursion of the Abyss and find the way to a Supernal Realm? Maybe the Kindred, being what they are, can brace themselves against the Abyss in a way no Mage can, and find the secret and most direct ways. But how would the Curse corrupt the Supernal?

    Elfive appointed one thing we need to keep in mind, at every instant here: this is tentative and cautious so we never, ever, doesn't matter what happens, never give again raise to the Height...


    Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante,
    Do que ter aquela velha opinião formada sobre tudo,
    Sobre o que é o amor, sobre que eu nem sei quem sou.
    É chato chegar a um objetivo num instante,
    Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
      Whatever you want. I see no reason whatsoever to bound affiliation to any organization to mechanically being a given splat.
      To properly be a member of a Court you do have to be able to make pledges (which can only be done by changelings, admonitoria, and maybe gentry), so you basically would have to be a member of the splat for some organizations.

      Comment


      • #93
        I'd say Changelings, Fae Touched, and Admonitoria can joined Courts, most Fae can do pledges of the Sealing type, some can also do Pledges of the Bargain type, except Fetches who can't do pledges at all, but I think, but only Changeling, Fae Touched, and now Admonitoria can do the Oaths Pledges, which you need to join a Court. Courts are designed to protect Changeling from Gentry, so no, I don't think Gentry can join them.

        Comment


        • #94
          Unless the Gentry was hiding or banished for some reason. Kind of the catch phrase of the CofD, in a way. This is an absolute rule, until it isn't.

          Comment


          • #95
            There is a difference between being a member of the group and having some mechanical effects of its customs.

            First, the Changeling do have ways to make Pledges with non-fae. If the candidate can't make an Oath Pledge by herself, it doesn't mean the Changelings of the Court can't create an alternative that rests solely on their connection to the Wyrd.

            Second, the Court can simply find a compromise to consider a given individual a member for all effects, if one that can't reinforce some Pledges with the Wyrd. By the way, the individual can still make the pledge, just can't infuse it with power. And depending on the individual, even if not in the way Changelings do it, she actually can infuse it with power. Invictus' vampires and Acanthus' Mages are both examples of individuals with actual power to infuse an Oath with power in some way.


            Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante,
            Do que ter aquela velha opinião formada sobre tudo,
            Sobre o que é o amor, sobre que eu nem sei quem sou.
            É chato chegar a um objetivo num instante,
            Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante.

            Comment


            • #96
              https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...x4uYKYeJA/edit

              A friends response to this, posting it for them since they lack a account. I mostly agree with it, this attempt at a crossover leaves it as vampires that have some weaknesses added to them but far, far more advantages.

              Also they seem to still be writing parts/adding things they missed want to addressed brought up since the original post.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Faster-Than-FedEx View Post
                https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...x4uYKYeJA/edit

                A friends response to this, posting it for them since they lack a account. I mostly agree with it, this attempt at a crossover leaves it as vampires that have some weaknesses added to them but far, far more advantages.

                Also they seem to still be writing parts/adding things they missed want to addressed brought up since the original post.
                I'm going to read between the lines here a bit and assume that "your friend" is posting through you because they are savvy enough to know that posting something like this would lead to them getting suspended or banned. I would also hazzard a guess that they "lack an account" due to having previously been banned. Either way, this post is extremely disrespectful towards David, and since you posted it on their behalf, you are the one responsible for this content, which violates the forum rules, being on the forums. You are a new user, and this is a first time offense, so I'm going to make this a warning and not a suspension. But be advised, the document you linked to crosses the line between constructive criticism and shitpost, and it would normally earn you a suspension. Don't post content written by "your friend" here again.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                  I'm going to read between the lines here a bit and assume that "your friend" is posting through you because they are savvy enough to know that posting something like this would lead to them getting suspended or banned. I would also hazzard a guess that they "lack an account" due to having previously been banned. Either way, this post is extremely disrespectful towards David, and since you posted it on their behalf, you are the one responsible for this content, which violates the forum rules, being on the forums. You are a new user, and this is a first time offense, so I'm going to make this a warning and not a suspension. But be advised, the document you linked to crosses the line between constructive criticism and shitpost, and it would normally earn you a suspension. Don't post content written by "your friend" here again.

                  Hi, I guess I should introduce myself. I'm said person who wrote the doc. I had forgotten I even had an account, but I checked after being linked this as the only response to my doc so far. They are a different person, I am me, I am just a mildly busy me who took more time writing while they had the mindset for it than looking up a user name and password.

                  Now, on my doc I would like to explain myself slightly. I'm a fan of both CofD and WoD, but I'm also a person who sees the mistakes in the older material (though there is quite a bit to be praised about it), and the original pdf that Dave posted reminded me of a certain pitfall that was in WoD, namely template stacking. I've got quite a bit of experience in many games which shows that without very careful handling, something the old line didn't really have yet, template stacking doesn't work. In the end you just end up rewarding powergaming by stacking in such a way that you can completely ignore your weaknesses. Imagine for a moment if you will a Vampire who could summon full, head to toe clothing from nothing. Thats Primal crafting a suit of armor from bark or stone or plants, a simple trick for one of the Kithain but an invaluable one for a Vampire to have.

                  When you ever want to do crossover or cross-splat creations, you have to be careful otherwise you create a situation where the incentive is with the players to power game. Now, though Dave's work was a good basis for the idea, it had problems. Yes, I may have been brutal about said problems, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. His doc created what was a splat about being both a vampire and changeling at the same time, and I liked the theme of that in fact, so I took it and ran with it while also trying to reel in the power level a bit, the idea being that you take the weakness you already have and as Kindred or one of the Lost and combine them, while also trimming some fat to make it more concise.

                  tldr: I saw the pdf, thought there was little drawback to being one of these Admonitoria and decided I could do better, which I tried to do in a way that would give them strengths and weaknesses that fit in universe at least partially and draw on precedent of other systems. Vitriol slipped into said attempt as the line of my attempt and my criticism blurred.


                  Chosen of the Ripple: A Jojo's Bizarre Adventure game for Chronicles of Darkness

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                  • #99
                    Noted, I'll refrain from acting like a between man in the future or at least being more careful with it. I wont defend my fellow player though, it'd be off topic anyway.

                    But still, I do think that the Admoni should have some more negatives, maybe a social negative to dealing with either Changelings or Vampires. I mean, they're a mix of the two and as we've seen in many things, people see the part of a person that isn't similar to them rather than the part that is relateable to them. These are beings that two things at once, not a leech finger from the august court that gets along with vampires. They aren't a bloodline that had some connection with the hedge, some pet project of the a powerful acanthus or whatever. These are monsters made so twice over by being abominations of two different creatures of the dark. They're intimidating aberrations that hold powers that are so beyond the things that the 5 clans can, and have access to MORE kinds of powers than any specialized bloodline could with ease. 1-4 of contracts is still incredibly intimidating to a vampire (Or intriguing to Mekhet/Ordo) while a 'changeling' with the powers of dominate and the ability to take more damage than the majority of changelings. Just imagine being a newish changeling out with your motley, only to see your team mate take a bullet to the gun and he looks like he's just winded, as if he got punched in the gut.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gentlemenshadow View Post
                      Hi, I guess I should introduce myself. I'm said person who wrote the doc. I had forgotten I even had an account, but I checked after being linked this as the only response to my doc so far. They are a different person, I am me, I am just a mildly busy me who took more time writing while they had the mindset for it than looking up a user name and password.

                      Now, on my doc I would like to explain myself slightly. I'm a fan of both CofD and WoD, but I'm also a person who sees the mistakes in the older material (though there is quite a bit to be praised about it), and the original pdf that Dave posted reminded me of a certain pitfall that was in WoD, namely template stacking. I've got quite a bit of experience in many games which shows that without very careful handling, something the old line didn't really have yet, template stacking doesn't work. In the end you just end up rewarding powergaming by stacking in such a way that you can completely ignore your weaknesses. Imagine for a moment if you will a Vampire who could summon full, head to toe clothing from nothing. Thats Primal crafting a suit of armor from bark or stone or plants, a simple trick for one of the Kithain but an invaluable one for a Vampire to have.

                      When you ever want to do crossover or cross-splat creations, you have to be careful otherwise you create a situation where the incentive is with the players to power game. Now, though Dave's work was a good basis for the idea, it had problems. Yes, I may have been brutal about said problems, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. His doc created what was a splat about being both a vampire and changeling at the same time, and I liked the theme of that in fact, so I took it and ran with it while also trying to reel in the power level a bit, the idea being that you take the weakness you already have and as Kindred or one of the Lost and combine them, while also trimming some fat to make it more concise.

                      tldr: I saw the pdf, thought there was little drawback to being one of these Admonitoria and decided I could do better, which I tried to do in a way that would give them strengths and weaknesses that fit in universe at least partially and draw on precedent of other systems. Vitriol slipped into said attempt as the line of my attempt and my criticism blurred.
                      Thanks for clearing that up! Your critiques stated in this post are all perfectly reasonable. The issue with the google doc in question was that, as mentioned in the red text, it crosses the line from constructive critique into attack against the creator as phrased there. In the future, just try to make sure you state your critiques with respect towards the creator of the work.


                      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                      My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                      Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                      Comment


                      • I agree with most of those critiques. I was doing my own version to better address them, but I got kind of drowned on work this week.

                        That said, in one point I disagree. I disagree that they should take penalties on social anything. It should stick to supernatural effects.

                        Why? Because I see nothing of this "double-aberration" happening as default in any of the two societies. Both are used to strangeness and unique cases among them, and maybe they don't even get aware of the true nature of the character. Or don't bother if they do.

                        From a Kindred, the All Night Society is already plenty of snowflakes. For the more it can be distinct from a simple bloodline on a mechanical level, it isn't for the Damned. It doesn't have a reason to be. They have a number of clans that maybe aren't even truly related to begin with, and even a given member of the clan, through rules on Strix and Revenants, can actually be the first vampire of its own line, just "elevated" to clan status. Bloodlines add a lot to this, since any vampire can create their own, at any time, for any purpose, and most of those purposes are, in-setting perspective, not a purpose at all, but shit just happened.

                        Kithain are shaped by their individual Durance, so they have even less rules about they. Actually, there is nothing in setting that makes it impossible for a given Changeling to be almost identical to a Kindred, not because of Embrace or Strix whatever, but just by dint of being shaped that way by the Durance.


                        Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante,
                        Do que ter aquela velha opinião formada sobre tudo,
                        Sobre o que é o amor, sobre que eu nem sei quem sou.
                        É chato chegar a um objetivo num instante,
                        Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                          Vampire/Promethean. The Kindred form is already kind of an engine of transformation (Blood to Vitae), though how they'd handle being involved with the Divine Fire, is another question.

                          I'd see a lot of synergy between Protean and Transmutations.
                          One of the Promethean supplements had examples of Created made by vampires, werewolves, and mages who all harnessed the Divine Fire

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                          • Has anyone used this as inspiration to make an Abomination splat?


                            My Homebrew
                            Star Wars d10
                            The Fallen for Demon: the Descent
                            Requiem for a Masquerade: VtR 2e Cainite Conversion (Vampira Roma)

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                            • I think a Promethean made from the parts of other supernatural creaturs in the Chronicles of Darkness would be umbrella covered by the Extempore lineage

                              though now I can't help but wonder what might happen if one got lucky enough to be able to stitch a member of the getry's body into a promethean and seeing how that much raw Wyrd and Azoth would react together.
                              Last edited by emmens; 01-20-2017, 02:35 AM.

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                              • I don't think True Fae leave corpses.

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