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  • "Blood is everything" houserule set

    Greetings,

    For my current chronicle, I really wanted to emphasize the vampiric condition and I houseruled several things to serve that purpose. First of all, let me say this rule set fits my view of a vampire chronicle very well, but it is definitely not for everyone. However, I am having such a blast with those alternate rules that I felt like sharing some of them. It's quite a long read, so thank you if you take the time to go through it. Feel free to try this rule set, take some ideas, or just reject it if it's not your thing. Moreover, let me say that I love the original material and this houserule set is not a rejection of it, but an adaptation that fits my current tastes.

    The goal
    In the Requiem setting, being a vampire is a curse, blood is everything, and the more powerful you become, the more difficult your Requiem is. I love the concept, but for my chronicle, I needed that concept to be felt in the rule system more, not just be something that has to be roleplayed. I wanted my players to feel the curse, even from a mechanical perspective.These rules are here to serve that purpose. Players must feel like vampires, and the need for blood should always be felt.

    Attributes
    In my setting, mortals are limited by their genetic potential and cannot increase each attribute by more than one dot. Vampires cannot increase Attributes with experience. (this specific rule is the only one I'm still not sure of, so I thought I'd put it first in line).

    Blood Potency
    I wanted Blood Potency to have a greater impact on a vampire's power, and also on her curse.

    - Blood Potency cannot be increased through experience. It is increased by actively concentrating one's blood. Mechanically speaking, it means players have to use blood points for the specific purpose of concentrating their blood, or gain "Concentration Points". Once ou reach a target number of Concentration points, you increase your Blood Potency. The target number is determined by the maximum number of Vitae points a vampire can store at the next Blood Potency level, times 10. So a Blood Potency 1 vampire has to concentrate 110 blood points to increase his blood potency. This number can be adjusted up or down to fit the number of nights your players actually play. If you play a night to night chronicle, the rule can be used as is, but if you tend to just play three nights a month (in play), then you may want to lower the target number. At first, it might seem a bit complicated, but so far it's worked very smoothly. The goal is that a vampire who wants to become more powerful has to feed more, which takes more time and attracts more attention. In practice, it doesn't take much game time either because the hunt can still be resolved by one dice roll. The consequences of frequent feeding though, are at the GM discretion.

    - A vampire spends his Blood Potency/2 (rounded up) in blood points to wake up every night. As a vampire becomes more powerful, he must feed more. Power at a cost. This alone can create tension between the vampires of one city because as they get more powerful, their presence is felt more and more, and the Masquerade is put at a greater risk. It can lead to tension and conflict that are directly caused by the vampiric condition, and the competition for blood which is very thematic.

    - A vampire is not limited to kindred blood once Blood Potency 6 is reached anymore. Instead, a vampire needs more blood to get one vitae point when he feeds from a human. At Blood Potency 6, she needs 2 to get 1, same a BP 7, then it's 3 to get 1 at BP 8, 4 to get 1 at BP 9, and 5 to get 1 at BP 10. Kindred blood remains at a one for one basis though. I prefered the idea of humans remaining the primary source of sustenance for kindred, but at the same time I wanted to keep some restrictions. This effect is cumulative to the increasing vitae loss every time a vampire wakes up. Getting more powerful is costly, for the vampire herself, as well as for her kind because she needs more blood and competition becomes more fierce.

    - Each time a vampire increases her Blood Potency, she gains one free dot in a Power Attribute, a Finesse Attribute, and a Resistance Attribute for a total of 3. Attribute increase thus depends on BP and blood. Power increases very fast with BP increase, which is what I am after, although it comes at a cost. Also, for each BP point a vampire loses due to torpor, she loses one dot in each Attribute category. I also wanted to highlight how Blood Potency impacts a vampire's current power level, thus making torpor an even bigger decision.

    - After torpor, it takes three times less Concentration points to regain the lost Blood Potency. So, powerful vampires tend to regain their power quickly. I like the idea of vampires feeding actively after waking from torpor to regain their lost power. It's also an opportunity for their ennemies to take them down at their weakest. To me, this is highly thematic.

    - A vampire's level in any Discipline is limited by her Blood Potency. Thus, you need to be Blood Potency 5 to fully develop a Discipline. When Blood Potency decreases, the higher levels in any Discipline are not lost but cannot be used until the vampire regains enough Blood Potency.

    Humanity

    I know 2nd edition moved away from the moral compass quite a bit, but there is still some elements to it. Also, all humans have different sets of values and what defines a human in terms of behavior is quite diverse. I wanted to make Humanity something more physical, for lack of a better term. In my setting, any human has a Humanity of 10. A vampire's Humanity's maximum value is determined by 10 - Blood Potency. Therefore, the more powerful a vampire gets, the less human she is. Humanity can never be recovered, even if Blood Potency decreases. For each Embrace or Diablerie, the vampire's Blood Potency is considered 1 higher for the purpose of determining Humanity. As a result, the Embrace becomes an even more important decision. I will admit that my setting has a very low vampire population, and this system was adapted with that in mind.

    Just like in the original material, the lower Humanity gets, the less human the vampire appears. It is just a bit more extreme here. It's a -1 at Humanity 9, and it increases by one as you go down the ladder, until it reaches -5 at Humanity 5. After that, the vampire cannot pass for human. At humanity 4, she looks dead; at humanity 3, some monstruous features appear, and at Humanity 2, she is a monstruous humanoid (a bit like what the nosferatu used to be). At Humanity 1, she is more monster than human, and at Humanity 0 she looks nothing like the human she used to be.

    A vampire can spend blood to look more human for an entire night. Each vitae point used this way increases Humanity by one for the purpose of determining the appearance of the vampire. The more inhuman a kindred is, the more blood is needed to look human. Again, blood is at the center of it.

    Final Death

    For the purpose of my chronicle, I needed a vampire in torpor for centuries because she had a stake in her heart. I love the idea of a vampire forced to sleep this way, and maybe guarded by a secret society but I could never justify why she wouldn't just be destroyed after being staked. So I came up with the idea that a vampire who is destroyed can always come back. The vampiric essence is free and can reform (in my setting, the Strix are actually vampires who were destroyed). The higher their blood potency when they died, the less time it takes for them to reform. Then, they can possess a human and become a kindred once more (BP 1) or a vampire (BP of the vampire, if equal or inferior to the Strix's). The only way to cause Final Death is through Diablerie, which justifies why it is so badly regarded. Plus, it comes at a high personal cost to the Diablerist.

    Conclusion

    This houserule set puts blood at the center of everything, as a plot driver, and as a mechanically tangible factor which makes the game even more thematic (to me) without making the game mechanically heavier.


  • #2
    I really like your ideas. They put the focus squarely back on vampirism and the monstrosity of it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very interesting. Isn't something I would make my default, but surely something that I want to try. Now for specific comments:

      On Attributes: I think the restriction is excessive. It isn't by itself really contributing to your goal, but just limiting the character development.

      On Increasing Blood Potency: I don't know if the numbers need some tweak, but the principle is sound and good, it is the centerpiece of the scheme and I liked.

      On needing more blood to wake every night: I'm not sure. Maybe with all the changes it can become excessive on the long run. Doesn't seem out of theme, but the above already made a good work. It is relevant to notice that the two rules create a distinct feel. Increasing BP with concentration of blood makes for expending blood as a means for power. This need, though, make it into a necessity, even for the more pacific vampires. Those are effects that need forethought, but can work.

      On needing more human blood: IIRC, the vampire can overcome the restriction with Willpower expenditure. If this is the case, you have to revise something here. Also, the same observations for the above apply here.

      On the Attribute Gain: It seems pretty good a rule.

      On the recover after Torpor: This is a point to take care, again. Currently Torpor serves a purpose as a restart for the game. It keeps the game from developing into a collection of insanely powerful vampires, and makes an elder into an option for starting PCs. Without it, the way an elder affects the game changes considerably, even not changing too much the actual rules.

      On Limiting Disciplines: I'm not sure here, either. Maybe it is too much a restriction on low BP. But I have to playtest it.

      On Humanity: This one I'm seriously worried. 2nd Edition certainly didn't went as far as promised into making Humanity more into a "sheep's clothes", but as a direct inversion of power it didn't strike me any better, on the contrary.

      On Final Death: Curious, and I want to put at test.


      #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
      #AutismPride
      She/her pronouns

      Comment


      • #4
        I really like your ideas. They put the focus squarely back on vampirism and the monstrosity of it.
        Thanks, this was, in fact, my intent.

        Very interesting. Isn't something I would make my default, but surely something that I want to try. Now for specific comments:
        Thank you for your constructive comment. I'll try and answer some of the points.

        Attributes: I think the restriction is excessive. It isn't by itself really contributing to your goal, but just limiting the character development.
        I know what you mean, it's the aspect I was the most unsure about. Still, here is why I thought it was contributing. Like I said, I liked the idea of a vampire's power being directly linked to Blood Potency. If I allow for Attribute increase with experience, I'm worried it can be overpowered (considering it increases naturally with BP increase) and those Attributes dots that are bought with XP wouldn't disappear as BP decreases. It may allow a vampire to not be weak even after lowering BP. But I see your point, and it would cost a lot of XP to do that anyway.

        On needing more blood to wake every night: I'm not sure. Maybe with all the changes it can become excessive on the long run. Doesn't seem out of theme, but the above already made a good work. It is relevant to notice that the two rules create a distinct feel. Increasing BP with concentration of blood makes for expending blood as a means for power. This need, though, make it into a necessity, even for the more pacific vampires. Those are effects that need forethought, but can work.
        I'm glad your noticed the two themes here. You articulated them very well. I completely understand the worry that it may become excessive in the long run, and I also thought about it. You know what ? It probably would become excessive and I think that's my intent. Being a high BP vampire who still wants to become more powerful is brutal. It's costly for the vampire and every other kindred around her. Hell, for everybody around her. Honestly, with some thoughts I have established that with those two rules, you can manage a BP 5 vampire. Anything above that is going to need some hard work, but that's why these vamps are rare and I don't think it is any more extreme than the original restriction (I know it can be overcome by Willpower but Willpower but still). Now, I want to add that I HAVEN'T removed the rule that says a vampire's BP increases every 50 years. So a high BP vampire who only get blood out of necessity and cannot afford to expand blood to become more powerful will still increase her power as she ages. Also, I really like the fact that these two rules make some Merits extremely important such as Hunting Ground or Herds; it really forces a vampire to "organize" her unlife in a very creepy way so blood becomes more easily available. These merits don't just facilitate anymore, they are necessary. Finally, I think the need to spend more and more blood every night gives vampires a real reason for wanting to go into torpor, when their unlife becomes truly unmanageable.

        I need a long term play test, but PCs rarely go for to very high BP anyway. Actually, I feel these rules allow that a bit more than in the original setting, but I could be wrong.

        On needing more human blood: IIRC, the vampire can overcome the restriction with Willpower expenditure. If this is the case, you have to revise something here. Also, the same observations for the above apply here.
        In my setting, I don't allow Willpower to overcome any restriction because the restrictions are what makes the theme. However, vampiric blood offers vitae on a one point for one point basis, so it's still something that can attract hungry vampires. Also, and I forgot to say, each vitae taken from a vampire and used for the purpose of "concentrating blood" will give 1 concentration points per dot in the vampire's Blood Potency (the one who's fed upon). Diablerie also gives a lot more power to compensate for the much higher cost. I won't detail that here though.

        On the recover after Torpor: This is a point to take care, again. Currently Torpor serves a purpose as a restart for the game. It keeps the game from developing into a collection of insanely powerful vampires, and makes an elder into an option for starting PCs. Without it, the way an elder affects the game changes considerably, even not changing too much the actual rules.
        I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It seems you think I removed the need for torpor. Or am I understanding it wrong ? Torpor is paramount to this rule set. The abject need for blood that comes with high BP forces most vampires to go into torpor to lower it down to more manageable levels. The power decreases with it. So yes, the vampire benefits from a "blood memory" of sort that allows her to concentrate her blood faster but why would she do that if she went into torpor precisely to lower down her BP ? Sure, if the torpor went for a bit longer than expected, she might want to regain some of her lost BP just to be able to be more on par with other kindred, but her goal certainly wouldn't be to get back to where she was right before torpor. I think I understand what you meant as I'm writing. Did you mean you thought a vampire who lost BP due to torpor should not have an easier time to regain it ? If that's so, I see your point but I kind of like the idea of en elder who still have a small advantage. Actually, I think the post-torpor elders in my setting are weaker than in the original setting because they lose Attribute dots (that's why I thought not to allow Attribute increase with XP).

        On Limiting Disciplines: I'm not sure here, either. Maybe it is too much a restriction on low BP. But I have to playtest it.
        I'm not far enough in the Chronicle to tell you how it played. However, I feel that without this restriction, players could see it as more advantageous to stay at a low BP to keep themselves from all the drawbacks. I like that they might feel forced to increase their power so they can be a match to other kindred. As you said, I need more playtest for that.

        On Humanity: This one I'm seriously worried. 2nd Edition certainly didn't went as far as promised into making Humanity more into a "sheep's clothes", but as a direct inversion of power it didn't strike me any better, on the contrary.
        My rational was that as BP increases, the vampire becomes more the vampire and less the human. Initially, it came from a personal taste that I like old vampires to look monstruous and wanted a way to integrate that into my setting. So I understand this is one of the aspects of the setting that is the less likely to be appreciated. Now, I didn't mention that there is a way to mitigate this. I took the idea of "Banes" from the original material and applied it to my rule set. This time, each time your Humanity should decrease, for any reason, you can take a Bane instead of losing your dot in Humanity. You are still limited to three banes, but unless you increase your BP to very high levels, you may never have to look like a monster. It's all a matter of choice and trade off.

        You see, I didn't want players to be limited by their actions for fear of losing Humanity. It's always been frustrating to them. I mean, they are some horrible people who are humans despite what they do. Thus, I tried to make the loss of Humanity something more tightly linked to the actual vampiric condition, the essence of it. Now, Disciplines can overcome that to an extent. For example, you could be a Humanity 2 monster and when you trigger MAjesty 1, people still think you are amazing and it can lead to something very creepy. But again, I understand it can be brutal and it's not for everyone.

        On Final Death: Curious, and I want to put at test.
        I should add that a staked vampire is not in a true torpor, but a stasis. Thus, her Blood POtency does not decrease, which makes staking vampires dangerous but necessary so they don't come back.


        Thanks again for your constructive comments that I'll be sure to reflect upon as my Chronicle progresses and the rule set further experienced. Feel free to add whatever thought you may have.


        Comment


        • #5
          When I read "Blood is Everything" I thought we were going to discuss the properties of blood and what makes it so unique in the World of Darkness...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Shawarbaaz View Post
            When I read "Blood is Everything" I thought we were going to discuss the properties of blood and what makes it so unique in the World of Darkness...

            Should've read a bit more, right there on the title it says "houserule set".

            To the topic...

            Those seem really flavorful! Great work!

            Comment


            • #7
              I had a similar idea a while back about letting high-potency vampires feed on humans with slightly less difficulty than RAW, but I just decided to say that at BP 6+ any blood from a human counted as cold blood, thus requiring BP x 2 pints (or health levels, for simplicity).

              I didn't have them need more vitae to wake up, but needing between 12 and 20 points per vitae is sufficiently severe that it would probably have been overkill anyway.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've liked the ideas you've written very much. As other have said, they are flavorful and well thought. I would probably change the Atrribute rule adding one more point to it as far as mortals are concerned (there is not so uncommon seeing people rise their strenght from, mechanically speaking, 2 to 4), but i really like the vampire's way of increase them. It feels so... unnatural yet appropriate. Vampiric, all around.

                Humanity, however, is something i'm worried about. If you think of Humanity 0 as the character endgame, like is it now with Draugrs, i'd change some things. I like it being tied to Blood Potency, but i'd definitely divorce the Embrace from it. Maybe one way to go would be spending Blood Potency (and Blood Potency alone) in order to Embrace someone. If you want to keep the vampire reproduction low, you could have each Embrace reducing the maximum Blood Potency achievable by that vampire in one. (And maybe letting them regain those points by Diablerie, or not letting them regain them at all) That way, you have also the dicotomy: will you cripple yourself preserving that mortal? Or will you remain whole, but alone?


                Userhat Aegpts Vlrs. Coren "Ojos de Fuego". Mithrael. Menehet.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again for your encouraging comments.

                  I've liked the ideas you've written very much. As other have said, they are flavorful and well thought. I would probably change the Atrribute rule adding one more point to it as far as mortals are concerned (there is not so uncommon seeing people rise their strenght from, mechanically speaking, 2 to 4), but i really like the vampire's way of increase them. It feels so... unnatural yet appropriate. Vampiric, all around.
                  That makes sense, and it seems like a nice compromise. I'll take it !

                  Humanity, however, is something i'm worried about. If you think of Humanity 0 as the character endgame, like is it now with Draugrs, i'd change some things. I like it being tied to Blood Potency, but i'd definitely divorce the Embrace from it. Maybe one way to go would be spending Blood Potency (and Blood Potency alone) in order to Embrace someone. If you want to keep the vampire reproduction low, you could have each Embrace reducing the maximum Blood Potency achievable by that vampire in one. (And maybe letting them regain those points by Diablerie, or not letting them regain them at all) That way, you have also the dicotomy: will you cripple yourself preserving that mortal? Or will you remain whole, but alone?
                  Yes, Humanity 0 is an endgame. I'm not sure why some of you are worried about the Humanity loss here. I would be very curious if you could elaborate. I actually thought about the cost of one Blood Potency in order to Embrace, and even thought of allowing a higher Blood Potency infant if you sacrificed more Blood Potency but then decided against it because it sort of brought back the idea of Generations that I hated. The reason I also discarded the cost of one Blood Potency was, as you figured it out, because it did not limit enough the number of kindred. I really wanted to reinforce the connection between sire and infant, as well as the choice of the human to be turned.

                  That being said, I hadn't thought about your solution, that is, sacrificing the maximum Blood Potency for the purpose of Embracing. I think it's elegant, and I especially like the idea that Diablerie could be a way to get it back. However, Diablerie also automatically decreases Humanity in my setting. If I were to use what you are proposing, I would probably decrease the maximum attainable Blood Potency AND have the embracing kindred loseone dot of Blood Potency as well (because let's face it, not being able to reach a 10 Blood Potency is not that bad). I need to think about it, because it is an interesting idea. Anyhow, it is a great and perfectly viable alternative to what I propose. Thanks !

                  Again, I would appreciate if you could elaborate on why this reverse relation between BP and HUmanity worries you. It seems to be recurring and I fail to see what the big deal is. I was actually pround of that part haha !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The one thing I find notable is that, for the most part, I feel like you offset all the issues with just purchasing Feeding Ground and Herd. We're back to the original number of feeding scenes. BP is automatic with just setting aside a point or two a night, then pushing for downtime. Pays for itself.

                    If you hit BP 6, then start investing in Unnatural Affinity and shift your herd and grounds to werewolves and changelings, etc. Or an invictus chain of obligation. Etc.

                    I just think that all the dangers and strain are just offset by simple, 1xp purchases. At least, that's my impression.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                      TYes, Humanity 0 is an endgame. I'm not sure why some of you are worried about the Humanity loss here. I would be very curious if you could elaborate. I actually thought about the cost of one Blood Potency in order to Embrace, and even thought of allowing a higher Blood Potency infant if you sacrificed more Blood Potency but then decided against it because it sort of brought back the idea of Generations that I hated. The reason I also discarded the cost of one Blood Potency was, as you figured it out, because it did not limit enough the number of kindred. I really wanted to reinforce the connection between sire and infant, as well as the choice of the human to be turned.

                      That being said, I hadn't thought about your solution, that is, sacrificing the maximum Blood Potency for the purpose of Embracing. I think it's elegant, and I especially like the idea that Diablerie could be a way to get it back. However, Diablerie also automatically decreases Humanity in my setting. If I were to use what you are proposing, I would probably decrease the maximum attainable Blood Potency AND have the embracing kindred loseone dot of Blood Potency as well (because let's face it, not being able to reach a 10 Blood Potency is not that bad). I need to think about it, because it is an interesting idea. Anyhow, it is a great and perfectly viable alternative to what I propose. Thanks !

                      Again, I would appreciate if you could elaborate on why this reverse relation between BP and HUmanity worries you. It seems to be recurring and I fail to see what the big deal is. I was actually pround of that part haha !
                      My problem with Humanity is this: If Humanity is not purchasable with xp, no matter what you do, you'll always end being a Draugr. On one hand you have the inevitable loses when gaining BP. On the other hand, whenever you create progeny, or Diablerize someone. And on top of that, any fail in a Humanity roll.

                      Speaking about the Embrace, in fact i was thinking the one who would lose permanently the BP would be the sire, not the childe; i don't know if i was clear enough. If you decrease the childe permanent BP too you would be sort of recreating the Generations, right?

                      Anyway, i'm glad you like the ideas! Thank you for sharing yours too!
                      Last edited by Phersus; 11-03-2016, 05:34 PM.


                      Userhat Aegpts Vlrs. Coren "Ojos de Fuego". Mithrael. Menehet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                        Greetings,

                        Final Death

                        For the purpose of my chronicle, I needed a vampire in torpor for centuries because she had a stake in her heart. I love the idea of a vampire forced to sleep this way, and maybe guarded by a secret society but I could never justify why she wouldn't just be destroyed after being staked. So I came up with the idea that a vampire who is destroyed can always come back. The vampiric essence is free and can reform (in my setting, the Strix are actually vampires who were destroyed). The higher their blood potency when they died, the less time it takes for them to reform. Then, they can possess a human and become a kindred once more (BP 1) or a vampire (BP of the vampire, if equal or inferior to the Strix's). The only way to cause Final Death is through Diablerie, which justifies why it is so badly regarded. Plus, it comes at a high personal cost to the Diablerist.
                        In my own homebrew I throw around the Immortal Dread Power fairly liberally, and in fact bloodbathing vampires (which are fairly common in my setting) all have Immortal and Numen - Resurrection (applicable only to other vampires) Dread Powers which makes Requiem a game in which violent death isn't the most meaningful thing that can be inflicted upon other vampires, and fits some vampire lore.


                        “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                        "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My problem with Humanity is this: If Humanity is not purchasable with xp, no matter what you do, you'll always end being a Draugr. On one hand you have the inevitable loses when gaining BP. On the other hand, whenever you create progeny, or Diablerize someone. And on top of that, any fail in a Humanity roll.
                          Two things. First of all, in my setting, you do not roll for breaking points. You only lose Humanity with Blood Potency increase, embracing, or Diablerie. That's it. Also, you do not necessarily become a Draugr but I think I see where I was not clear enough. When you increase BP, you do not necessarily lose Humanity. It's more like, your Humanity score equals 10 - Blood POtency. For example, if you have Blood Potency 5, then your Humanity is 5. Now let's assume you fall into torpor and your BP goes down to 2. Your Humanity remains at 5 but it WILL NOT go down until your BP reaches 6. That is, you can increase your BP back to 5 without losing any Humanity. So the only time you may fall to Humanity 0 is if your BP reaches 10; but remember I said you can choose to take a Bane which stops one Humanity loss. When your BP is too high for your liking and you don't want to lose more Humanity, you can fall into torpor.

                          Speaking about the Embrace, in fact i was thinking the one who would lose permanently the BP would be the sire, not the childe; i don't know if i was clear enough. If you decrease the childe permanent BP too you would be sort of recreating the Generations, right?
                          I did understand what you meant, I was talking about the "embracing kindred", not the "embraced kindred" but I admit it wasn't crystal clear. I meant the "sire", it was poorly written.


                          In my own homebrew I throw around the Immortal Dread Power fairly liberally, and in fact bloodbathing vampires (which are fairly common in my setting) all have Immortal and Numen - Resurrection (applicable only to other vampires) Dread Powers which makes Requiem a game in which violent death isn't the most meaningful thing that can be inflicted upon other vampires, and fits some vampire lore.
                          I am not aware of those Dread Powers you speak of. But it sounds similar to my take. But yes, my point is death is not the same to vampires, it's not necessarily the most meaningful endgame to them, except when it comes from Diablerie which makes it even more dreadful.
                          Last edited by Lestat; 11-03-2016, 06:13 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                            Two things. First of all, in my setting, you do not roll for breaking points. You only lose Humanity with Blood Potency increase, embracing, or Diablerie. That's it. Also, you do not necessarily become a Draugr but I think I see where I was not clear enough. When you increase BP, you do not necessarily lose Humanity. It's more like, your Humanity score equals 10 - Blood POtency. For example, if you have Blood Potency 5, then your Humanity is 5. Now let's assume you fall into torpor and your BP goes down to 2. Your Humanity remains at 5 but it WILL NOT go down until your BP reaches 6. That is, you can increase your BP back to 5 without losing any Humanity. So the only time you may fall to Humanity 0 is if your BP reaches 10; but remember I said you can choose to take a Bane which stops one Humanity loss. When your BP is too high for your liking and you don't want to lose more Humanity, you can fall into torpor.
                            All clear then! Being that the case, i don't have any problem with it.


                            Userhat Aegpts Vlrs. Coren "Ojos de Fuego". Mithrael. Menehet.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              I know what you mean, it's the aspect I was the most unsure about. Still, here is why I thought it was contributing. Like I said, I liked the idea of a vampire's power being directly linked to Blood Potency. If I allow for Attribute increase with experience, I'm worried it can be overpowered (considering it increases naturally with BP increase) and those Attributes dots that are bought with XP wouldn't disappear as BP decreases. It may allow a vampire to not be weak even after lowering BP. But I see your point, and it would cost a lot of XP to do that anyway.
                              Yes, attributes do cost a lot of XP. Almost as much as supernatural powers, that are usually more juicy. It would be, as always, a choice of the player. Also, it is very harsh this way.

                              A mortal can buy up to 9 dots in Attributes. It isn't likely, but means that with +9 dots a person can raise from her usual state to her peak performance. A vampire, preternaturally buffed by the power of blood, needs +3 BP just to do the same, and only then it starts to surpass their mortal potential. With BP granting +3 dots in Attributes, the characters are likely to resort to this way for increasing them anyway, with the sense of this increase being powered by the power of blood without being just to keep it up with mortality.

                              Remember, also, that BP beyond 5 unlocks greater Attributes. That puts the characters already too short if compared to their potential. Each BP above 5 unlock 9 dots, but gives "just" 3. It isn't few, but I think you can freely let the characters spend XP on them. Or, as an option, let only BP bought Attribute dots go beyond 5.


                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              I'm not sure I understand what you mean... ...Did you mean you thought a vampire who lost BP due to torpor should not have an easier time to regain it ? If that's so, I see your point but I kind of like the idea of en elder who still have a small advantage. Actually, I think the post-torpor elders in my setting are weaker than in the original setting because they lose Attribute dots (that's why I thought not to allow Attribute increase with XP).
                              This, but nothing so serious, if you want this theme in your game.


                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              I'm not far enough in the Chronicle to tell you how it played. However, I feel that without this restriction, players could see it as more advantageous to stay at a low BP to keep themselves from all the drawbacks. I like that they might feel forced to increase their power so they can be a match to other kindred. As you said, I need more playtest for that.
                              Do not underestimate the value of spending more Vitae per turn, and of keeping more Vitae at any given time. A character with Celerity can spend Vitae to win Initiative, move fast, and yet as any vampire get a Physical Boost or heal injury. But only a vampire with enough BP can do all of that at the same time. Since Masquerade, it is really one of the strongest benefits of BP.


                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              My rational was that as BP increases, the vampire becomes more the vampire and less the human. Initially, it came from a personal taste that I like old vampires to look monstruous and wanted a way to integrate that into my setting. So I understand this is one of the aspects of the setting that is the less likely to be appreciated. Now, I didn't mention that there is a way to mitigate this. I took the idea of "Banes" from the original material and applied it to my rule set. This time, each time your Humanity should decrease, for any reason, you can take a Bane instead of losing your dot in Humanity. You are still limited to three banes, but unless you increase your BP to very high levels, you may never have to look like a monster. It's all a matter of choice and trade off.

                              You see, I didn't want players to be limited by their actions for fear of losing Humanity. It's always been frustrating to them. I mean, they are some horrible people who are humans despite what they do. Thus, I tried to make the loss of Humanity something more tightly linked to the actual vampiric condition, the essence of it. Now, Disciplines can overcome that to an extent. For example, you could be a Humanity 2 monster and when you trigger MAjesty 1, people still think you are amazing and it can lead to something very creepy. But again, I understand it can be brutal and it's not for everyone.
                              I would find it more appealing to have Humanity reworked so it actually means mimicry of being mortal. But I get what you mean, and if not satisfied, I can easily play along. It isn't bad.

                              On the other hand, the impossibility on raising Humanity can create some nasty corners, both making it impossible to play the trope of the Good Amnesiac and others of Elder Redemption, and by making it a sink impossible for the players to get out if they get stuck. You can make it very hard to raise, but "impossible" have too many implications.


                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              I should add that a staked vampire is not in a true torpor, but a stasis. Thus, her Blood POtency does not decrease, which makes staking vampires dangerous but necessary so they don't come back.
                              That's interesting.


                              Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                              Thanks again for your constructive comments that I'll be sure to reflect upon as my Chronicle progresses and the rule set further experienced. Feel free to add whatever thought you may have.
                              Be welcome.

                              I liked also the idea of Embracing causing a loss to BP, both immediate and potential, but it curiously bring an "issue". A vampire can Embrace others to protect itself both from becoming too powerful and too inhuman. Five Embraces and it becomes impossible to ever reach BP 6. It makes the Embrace also into a safety switch.


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