Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Alpha: Elodoth vs Rahu

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Alpha: Elodoth vs Rahu

    Scenario:

    A few freshly created werewolf characters are gathering and the issue of who will be the alpha comes up somehow.
    Two pretenders rise up to the occasion – a Rahu and an Elodoth.

    The Rahu above is a combat monster, optimized for utterly disabling and destroying any opponent in physical combat.
    He's fast, he's strong, he's got double the time in Gauru form than the Elodoth and many more health levels, a greater ability to cause damage and a near-maximized Brawling dice pool in addition to advantage on top of advantage when it comes to fighting.
    He can grapple and take down anyone before they even know what hit them.

    How can the Elodoth claim the title? What can the Elodoth do to overcome the Rahu in a duel?

    How would you build the Elodoth who would be Alpha? What actions would you take to claim the title?

    P.S.

    Yes, I've heard it said before that the alpha is a 1e convention, but that's not entirely accurate. The 2E book makes numerous references to pack alphas.
    For the sake of this discussion, assume pack alphas are a thing and the werewolf pack is more like a wolf pack in captivity than a familial pack from nature.

  • #2
    In a werewolf pack, the Alpha doesn't necessarily need to be able to beat all his packmates in a fight. They could be a good strategist, able to direct the pack to use each member's strengths in the most effective manner.

    So basically the Elodoth needs to convince the Rahu to follow them.

    Comment


    • #3
      If an alpha is necessary, it'll be for a certain reason, and that reason isn't necessarily "War". I could see the Elodoth having a better claim because they can determine the best targets for hunts, and can present a friendly face to neighboring packs. The Rahu might make a great soldier, but not a great leader. Since each pack will determine their alpha in their own way, it depends on if they have formalized selection processes or if its democratic. If it's a physical Duel then the Rahu will probably win, but if the Elodoth is feeling like taking some risks they could force the Rahu into a Death Rage and then outsmart it.


      "Nihhina kalekal-zidu kal masun, kal manudanadu. Nihhina kalekal-zidu nukal shaghu-desasudu — nihhina kalekal-zidu kal innu-desasudu udhkal samm." Arthur Ashe
      On the Chronicles of Darkness Slack Team. PM me for invitation
      Check out my tumblr for Chronicles of Darkness-related musings

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post
        Yes, I've heard it said before that the alpha is a 1e convention, but that's not entirely accurate. The 2E book makes numerous references to pack alphas.
        For the sake of this discussion, assume pack alphas are a thing and the werewolf pack is more like a wolf pack in captivity than a familial pack from nature.
        It does mention that, but it also mentions that the alpha isn't necessarily chosen by fighting. A pack could have a democracy, for instance, and the alpha is someone who keeps the pack strong, not just themselves.

        Note, you've posed this question as a hypothetical, which is why there's a lot of answers tending towards breaking free from the alpha concept, because that allows for a lot more opportunities. If this is a situation in your game where everyone insists on having an alpha-run pack for some reason, there's a rahu and an elodoth and they both believe they should be leader, you should say so.

        The elodoth could point out that they are not wolves, not in captivity, have lived most of their lives as humans, and don't have to use some cliche'd means to decide who's the leader. They can help their argument by liberal use of their Gifts, for instance them having ready access to know what's happening in their territory and who people are through the Insight Gifts can help them find issues to deal with.
        Last edited by nofather; 11-21-2016, 01:19 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          "We haven't got an alpha, but it's totally Mike."

          Comment


          • #6
            How can Elodoth beat Rahu? He just nicely ask him to take off his Death Rage by the powers of Half Moon... And then himself goes into Rage on to Rahu.


            MtAw 2E - My Legacies Updates and System Hacks Hubs
            MtAw - Children of the Stars - aliens loving Legacy
            MtAw 2E - Illusionists of Truth - illusionists and magicians Legacy

            Comment


            • #7
              "Does that guy have a Gauru in a headlock?"

              "yep."

              "He's in dalu."

              "yep."

              Comment


              • #8
                I would think a contest of Renown would be a better metric for choosing a leader than a contest of combat ability. Exchanging bēots, flaring Renown, challenging each other to back up their claims etc.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why does the alpha need to be a combat brute? There are a million other ways to show one's superiority as a leader than by beating the crap out of everyone that disagrees with you in a ritualized challenge that might as well take place in a white room?

                  To put it simply, the Elodoth are built to help bring balance and to have great insights into people and situations. That is worthy of respect. As is the fact that many Elodoth often end up bankrolling the pack, thanks to Ties of Word and Promise.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The elodoth can claim the title by getting the rest of the pack to back his claim. Doesn't matter if the Rahu's a combat monster, if the rest of the pack don't respect those qualities as being key in a leader.


                    - Chris Allen
                    Freelance Writer, The Pack / Dark Eras / Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition / Idigam Anthology / Fallen World Chronicle / Trinity Aeon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BigDamnHero View Post
                      If an alpha is necessary, it'll be for a certain reason, and that reason isn't necessarily "War". I could see the Elodoth having a better claim because they can determine the best targets for hunts, and can present a friendly face to neighboring packs.
                      Or spirits. If he can keep spirits in check with etiquette, without the need for bloodshed, which is painfully futile in a scenario where you've managed to piss off a great number of spirits... Yeah, that guy knows what he's doing and I better follow him.

                      Originally posted by BigDamnHero View Post
                      The Rahu might make a great soldier, but not a great leader. Since each pack will determine their alpha in their own way, it depends on if they have formalized selection processes or if its democratic. If it's a physical Duel then the Rahu will probably win, but if the Elodoth is feeling like taking some risks they could force the Rahu into a Death Rage and then outsmart it.
                      Rahu are also great Betas. The Beta is the packmate that makes sure that everyone else is pulling their weight, including the Alpha. It works even with the Challenger Blood. He's the one that makes sure that the pack is a well oiled machine - particularly in training sessions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks all.

                        My particular (hypothetical) scenario here was based on a possible interaction between my character (the Elodoth) and a friend's character (the Rahu) in case we got to play them. The game didn't end up happening but I did wonder about what I could have done if that situation would come to pass.
                        In that particular instance, my friend tends to play rather domineering characters with an "alpha male" personality. He also tends to create min-maxed combat monsters (and I tend to create ineffective or mediocre ones). If he's not the leader, he becomes kind of a maverick and a contrarian and doesn't really respect others' leadership.

                        Knowing that player, I'd say some of your suggestions about proving the Elodoth's usefulness to the pack (like the ones about being able to get the spirits in line or handle diplomacy with neighbouring packs) would only get him to say something along the lines of "you can still do those things while I'm the alpha".

                        I did like the notion of getting the rest of the pack's support socially, though.

                        Looks like it won't come to pass either way, but I did appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "You can still do all the actual leadership stuff while I'm the alpha" sounds like someone who only cares about having the title and not about the role itself or the responsibilities that come with it. If it were me, I'd say "you can call yourself Alpha if it makes you feel better, but if I'm the one doing the Alpha's job, you don't deserve the credit for it." I'd also ask the rest of the pack if they really want a leader who cares more about getting to say he's in charge than about doing his duty as leader to the rest of the pack.


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                            "You can still do all the actual leadership stuff while I'm the alpha" sounds like someone who only cares about having the title and not about the role itself or the responsibilities that come with it. If it were me, I'd say "you can call yourself Alpha if it makes you feel better, but if I'm the one doing the Alpha's job, you don't deserve the credit for it." I'd also ask the rest of the pack if they really want a leader who cares more about getting to say he's in charge than about doing his duty as leader to the rest of the pack.
                            No king rules alone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post

                              Knowing that player, I'd say some of your suggestions about proving the Elodoth's usefulness to the pack (like the ones about being able to get the spirits in line or handle diplomacy with neighbouring packs) would only get him to say something along the lines of "you can still do those things while I'm the alpha".

                              I did like the notion of getting the rest of the pack's support socially, though.

                              Looks like it won't come to pass either way, but I did appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
                              The problem is that in the end there is only one alpha, who will make the final decision. What will happen if the Elodoth and the Rahu disagree on what is the best course of action? Particularly if the decision has to be made quickly leaving no time for lengthy discussion. Lets say the Elodoth has arranged and agreement with the neighbouring pack about the border of their territories. Now the pack is hunting an Azlu who escapes into the territory of the other pack. The Rahu wants to continue the hunt while the Elodoth wishes to honour the pact. Or the pack catches up with a claimed in a city park. The Rahu wants to kill him right now while the Elodoth is aware of the consequences a murder has on resonance of the peaceful park and prefers to wait until the claimed has left the area.

                              If the Elodoth doesn't say anything but follows the Rahu then the roles are clear: The Rahu is the alpha who commands the pack while the Elodoth is only an advisor. Of course this means that the Elodoth will have to deal with the consequences of the actions. It will also undermine his authority when dealing with other packs or the spirits. After all why would you bother wasting your time on an agreement that can be voided by the whims of an impulsive warrior? Depending on how bad the fallout of the rash decisions are the rest of the pack might also question the ability of the Rahu and eventually deem him unfit as an alpha, leading to a revolt against him.

                              If the Elodoth does voice his opinion and this is accepted by the Rahu, then the roles are also clear: The Elodoth is the alpha who decides the actions of the pack, and the Rahu only the strongest warrior. The Rahu can call himself alpha all he likes, but both the packmates and outsiders will realise that the actual power lies within the Elodoth, and will consequently approach him and not the Rahu if the want something done.

                              If the Elodoth voices his opinion but the Rahu does not accept it, there will be constant conflict within the pack, often surfacing at the least opportune moments. How it will play out will then depend mostly on how the packmates react to it, and who they'll support. If they believe that might makes right, support the Rahu and believe that the Elodoth is an annoying complainer, the Elodoth will leave or be evicted from the pack. If they believe that you need qualifications other than physical power to be an alpha, support the Elodoth and believe that the Rahu is an irresponsible hotead, the Rahu will leave or be chased away. It is of course also possible that both gather some supporters and the pack splits.

                              Now, none of this means that this setup cannot work for a chronicle, but the chronicle will be focused on the interaction of the pack with itself and less about doing stuff. If you and the other players like such a story, go ahead and play it. However, if you want a more action oriented chronicle the internal conflict might well spoil the game.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X