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[2E] Mots

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
    Looks like mots can be a local catch-all term for any werewolf organization bigger than a typical pack - regional lodges, protectorates, expanded packs and such.
    I would gladly hear of other ideas for Mots you have that are not Lodges. For now, Valkyrie are for me Lodge centered on getting ( 'hunting') the dead heroes for All (Wolf) Father / Odin ( possible local split from Lodge of Arms ) and Eiwaz as hunting 'impure breed' ( both Magath and mixed human races ). This would make them general Lodge, with many adherents in Ivory Claws. This Eiwaz is also nice mirror to my idea on Get of Fenris as Forsaken Lodge.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by Malus View Post
      You're telling me a pack numbering 50 Uratha across a region with a gigantic totem hasn't become a regional lodge for all intents and purposes? I don't want to be right then.
      There's an element of worship and devotion in lodges that is different from your average pack's relationship with their totem, who is another member of the pack. Really, the book goes into this.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
        It might be a lodge. Can the totem tell the rough location of all members? Can members mystically identify each other through instinct? Do members gain a esoteric/strange blessing that specifically cannot be like Pack benefits because packs are more of a personal bond than lodges? Do all members of the lodge gain a special aspiration? Do they have a benefit they can take in the sacred hunt as if it was a tribe?

        With those numbers, it sounds like it'd be very hard for it to remain a pack rather than turning into a lodge, but it theoretically could be possible.
        Yes to all of the above. Every Lodge started as a pack.

        Originally posted by nofather View Post

        There's an element of worship and devotion in lodges that is different from your average pack's relationship with their totem, who is another member of the pack. Really, the book goes into this.
        At the point where 50 werewolves are devoted to a rank 5+ spirit, it'll start to wish for devotion.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Malus View Post
          Yes to all of the above. Every Lodge started as a pack.
          The book doesn't suggest this, where are you getting these ideas? The closest it gets is, 'some Lodges do grow from packs.' Garm likely recruited powerful, unrelated individuals into its Lodge. The Smoke Drinker probably picked up followers on its travels. The Lodge of the Screaming Moon and Temple of Apollo probably recruit individuals in their dreams.

          At the point where 50 werewolves are devoted to a rank 5+ spirit, it'll start to wish for devotion.
          That's great, but in a weirdly large pack of 50 werewolves, they wouldn't be normally be worshiping your totem.
          Last edited by nofather; 12-30-2016, 01:16 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Malus View Post

            You're telling me a pack numbering 50 Uratha across a region with a gigantic totem hasn't become a regional lodge for all intents and purposes?
            If it hasn't made the changes required to go from pack to lodge it's still a pack.

            Originally posted by Malus View Post
            I don't want to be right then.
            Don't worry, you're not.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Malus View Post
              Yes to all of the above.
              Then what you're talking about is not pack numbering 50 Uratha across a region with a gigantic totem.

              Every Lodge started as a pack.
              The books disagree with you.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                It might be a lodge. Can the totem tell the rough location of all members?
                A totem with influence in packmates can.

                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                Can members mystically identify each other through instinct?
                Every Uratha can identify each other like that.

                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                Do members gain a esoteric/strange blessing that specifically cannot be like Pack benefits because packs are more of a personal bond than lodges?
                Loaded question. My point is exactly that: the difference between packs and lodges are only in terms of scope.

                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                Do all members of the lodge gain a special aspiration?
                All packs do, all lodges do.

                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                Do they have a benefit they can take in the sacred hunt as if it was a tribe?
                If my pack totem is rank 5+ I can bargain directly with it for new rites.

                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                With those numbers, it sounds like it'd be very hard for it to remain a pack rather than turning into a lodge, but it theoretically could be possible.
                Natural progression of a very successful pack.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Malus View Post
                  Every Uratha can identify each other like that.
                  No, they can't. Outside of a lodge, Uratha have to identify each other by smell as an instant action and can require invading one's personal space or be blocked by the usual things that block one's sense of smell. Adherents can just use magic.

                  Natural progression of a very successful pack.
                  I'm not sure why you're arguing this. The book, other players, even writers have told you you're incorrect. Packs do not just develop into lodges, it's not a natural progression, this isn't Pokemon where you're mechanically disadvantaged if you don't go to the next level. It's why a werewolf can be a member of a pack, a lodge, and a tribe, but never one of those things twice. It's fine if you want to use that scheme in your own games, but you should at least preface it by pointing out that this is how you run it, because you're putting this information out there as if it's how it's represented by the books.
                  Last edited by nofather; 12-31-2016, 05:19 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Malus View Post
                    A totem with influence in packmates can.
                    There is a limit to how far influence can sense. Lodge totems can sense to unlimited range


                    Every Uratha can identify each other like that.
                    Only if you're using house rules that Uratha of the same group can mystically identity each other without needing the lodge bond.


                    Loaded question. My point is exactly that: the difference between packs and lodges are only in terms of scope.
                    The fact that they're mutually exclusive in regards to blessings says otherwise (which is why it's not a loaded question, it is specifically one of the differences between lodges and packs).

                    If my pack totem is rank 5+ I can bargain directly with it for new rites.
                    I didn't ask about rites, I asked if they give a benefits to the sacred hunt in the same manner as a tribe.

                    Natural progression of a very successful pack.
                    Nope. Some packs become lodges, but many successful packs stay as Packs.

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