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  • Scandinavian Werewolf

    I slowly prepare my Werewolf 2E chronicle mixing plots of modern Scandinavia with Vikings Dark Era story. ( Think here story like chronicle idea with Ancient Summer from Forsaken Chronicler's Guide, but with Vikings ) I was thinking I had all I need for starting it, but then I thought about where – in modern times – action should take place. It would also be starting point of Viking era storyline. I thought – ‘Oh, modern Scandinavia are rebuilding their pagan temple – yeah, I will place game where it will be.’ Only I uncovered it’s not in Uppsala, but in Reykjavík – that made me sad. I have nothing for Icelanders, just it will not work for my chronicle, because:
    1. I need the whole Protectorate scale of things and Reykjavík has now half of population of my home city – so it would be like 20-30 Uratha at best in it.
    2. Reykjavík has be settled in 874 and I would rather start game circa 800, when Vikings are only making first contacts with Christianity.
    Having those things in mind – Where would you propose me to run modern part of the game? Best would this that I can start also Viking one story, as modern PCs will be decedents of original Viking ships crew.


    My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
    MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
    WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    I slowly prepare my Werewolf 2E chronicle mixing plots of modern Scandinavia with Vikings Dark Era story. ( Think here story like chronicle idea with Ancient Summer from Forsaken Chronicler's Guide, but with Vikings ) I was thinking I had all I need for starting it, but then I thought about where – in modern times – action should take place. It would also be starting point of Viking era storyline. I thought – ‘Oh, modern Scandinavia are rebuilding their pagan temple – yeah, I will place game where it will be.’ Only I uncovered it’s not in Uppsala, but in Reykjavík – that made me sad. I have nothing for Icelanders, just it will not work for my chronicle, because:
    1. I need the whole Protectorate scale of things and Reykjavík has now half of population of my home city – so it would be like 20-30 Uratha at best in it.
    2. Reykjavík has be settled in 874 and I would rather start game circa 800, when Vikings are only making first contacts with Christianity.
    Having those things in mind – Where would you propose me to run modern part of the game? Best would this that I can start also Viking one story, as modern PCs will be decedents of original Viking ships crew.
    Well, if you want to make conflict with Christianity a theme, Uppsala is great, because that is where the Archbishopric of Sweden is organised from (though it's Lutheran rather than Catholic since the Reformation, ofc.)
    Where the actual Temple was, no one really knows. There is a Wikipedia article about one of the places where it might have been, and a church was built. There is no English translation, but thankfully (for you), a Polish one.
    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%..._Gamla_Uppsala

    Also, I think you are putting a bit too much focus on the actual viking-ing. But that's just my point of view. If the characters were part of the same crew, they were from the same village (or similar). That fits better as a historical grounding than just being part of the same crew.

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    • #3
      1. Nothing says that the Uratha population is related to the mortal population. Iceland is a pretty large area to cover even if the mortal population isn't that big.

      2. Iceland converted in 1000 if that's any help. Presumably Christianity spread a lot slower to it.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
        Well, if you want to make conflict with Christianity a theme, Uppsala is great, because that is where the Archbishopric of Sweden is organised from (though it's Lutheran rather than Catholic since the Reformation, ofc.)
        I'm not making game about Christanity per se, but rather theory about Bale Hounds - still, a spread of Christianity plays a very large part in it, so I suspect Religon of Christ and early Middle Ages doctrine of Church about 'demons' from pagan religions will be one of central themes. Pointing to Uppsala Cathedra standing in place of possible great pagan Great Temple - will be great ironic change from Viking Era to modern one.

        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
        Also, I think you are putting a bit too much focus on the actual viking-ing. But that's just my point of view. If the characters were part of the same crew, they were from the same village (or similar). That fits better as a historical grounding than just being part of the same crew.
        I mean that Wolf and Raven - Viking chapter in Dark Eras - points that on viking went one Pack in the same boat under Totem carved on bow of vessel. If those info not work with your inner-knowledge of historical Scandinavia - I'm all ears.
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-07-2016, 01:10 PM.


        My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
        MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
        WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          1. Nothing says that the Uratha population is related to the mortal population. Iceland is a pretty large area to cover even if the mortal population isn't that big.
          Now that you mention it. Uppsala has slightly more mortal population. Still, Sweden has much higher denisity of population than Iceland ( like almost 9 times higher! ) - and is much more 'civilized' now.

          I'm just wondering where would be Mots or Lodges like Get of Fenris much more visible in modern times? Iceland or Sweden? I want to open chronicle with Valkyrja Mots stoping christian funeral storyline.


          My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
          MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
          WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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          • #6
            What do you mean by "much more 'civilized'"?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tessie View Post
              What do you mean by "much more 'civilized'"?
              Uppsala is being Sweden's Christian religious center from 1164, has been place of royality palace from century or two earlier, it has oldest university in Sweden, from 1477. In 2000 year Uppsala made first in almost milennium blót.

              It much more speak to me as civilized, compared to much younger and much population smaller Reykjavík. I understand that as country capitol is probably higher on culture and education, in the end - but this picture from this year Euro Cup still say something about Icelanders. They also build modern pagan temple, right now.



              From those two, Icelanders sounds are much more 'wild' in modern times.
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-07-2016, 02:18 PM.


              My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
              MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
              WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                Now that you mention it. Uppsala has slightly more mortal population. Still, Sweden has much higher denisity of population than Iceland ( like almost 9 times higher! ) - and is much more 'civilized' now.

                I'm just wondering where would be Mots or Lodges like Get of Fenris much more visible in modern times? Iceland or Sweden? I want to open chronicle with Valkyrja Mots stoping christian funeral storyline.
                I don't know how well the Get of Fenris would fit. Haven't played Apocalypse. But... Eh.. That stopping a funeral? That would just piss off people. Sweden is one of the countries in the world with the least amount of religious people, but we still use the Christian trappings on practically all funerals (as long, of course, as the one being buried isn't of another faith). A funeral here isn't a Christian ceremony, it's a traditional one.

                Oh, and if you want anti-Christian groups, you want Norway. They had a huge upswing in the 1990's of anti-Christian ideas within the greater metal scene. It's also full of wannabe satanists and neo-nazis. And no, not the cleaned-up neo's, the old kind. That's the kind of people you'll get if you want anti-Christian ideals. Generally, religion simply isn't brought up. Marriages and Funerals use Christian trappings because it's tradition, not because people feel any kind of Christian beliefs. Baptism is pretty much the same thing. Kids get baptised not because the parents think the kid should be part of the church, but because it's tradition.

                Attacking a funeral for being Christian would just piss people off.
                Last edited by Seidmadr; 12-07-2016, 02:24 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  Uppsala is being Sweden's Christian religious center from 1164, has been place of royality palace from century or two earlier, it has oldest university in Sweden, from 1477. In 2000 year Uppsala made first in almost milennium blót.

                  It much more speak to me as civilized, compared to much younger and much population smaller Reykjavík. I understand that as country capitol is probably higher on culture and education, in the end - but this picture from this year Euro Cup still say something about Icelanders. They also build modern pagan temple, right now.



                  From those two, Icelanders sounds are much more 'wild' in modern times.
                  Uppsala stopped being the Capital as soon as the Geat kings gained power. And that's before the Christianisation of Sweden. You are just factually wrong there.

                  But... Seriously. Because they wear funny hats, the same hats that people from all Nordic countries wear, at sporting events they are much less "civilized"?

                  How about Denmark then? That's where the organised revival of the pagan faith began. Are they also less "civilized"?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                    I don't know how well the Get of Fenris would fit. Haven't played Apocalypse. But... Eh.. That stopping a funeral? That would just piss off people. Sweden is one of the countries in the world with the least amount of religious people, but we still use the Christian trappings on practically all funerals (as long, of course, as the one being buried isn't of another faith). A funeral here isn't a Christian ceremony, it's a traditional one.
                    It don't mean that people would like stoping the funeral. But Valkyrie is doing what she need to do with sending great hero to Odin. People do not like this - phh, it's their problem, don't it? ( And we have great local reason for PCs to form the pack in going after corpse stealing Valkyrie wolf-bitch. )

                    Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                    Oh, and if you want anti-Christian groups, you want Norway. They had a huge upswing in the 1990's of anti-Christian ideas within the greater metal scene. It's also full of wannabe satanists and neo-nazis.
                    The no, I clearly do not want use Norway. Game is based on idea of secret Bale Hounds inflitration of modern Protectorate. It sounds as in Norway all Protectorates are simply run by Bale Hounds.


                    My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
                    MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
                    WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      It don't mean that people would like stoping the funeral. But Valkirie is doing what she need to do with sending great hero to Odin. People do not like this - phh, it's their problem, don't it? ( And we have great local reason for PCs to form the pack in going after corpse stealing Vakirije wolf-bitch. )
                      I'm sorry. I don't entirely get what you are meaning to say here. If I get things wrong, please correct me.
                      A Valkyrie shouldn't care about the funeral. Once the guy is dead, that's it. The Valkyries (myth), are all about making sure the strong warriors die, so that Freyja or the All-Father gets their soldiers.
                      I have no idea what Valkyrja Mot is about, since really, all the book talks about is how one joins them, and their rites. Not anything about their ideals and so on.

                      Really, the Mots look like the 19th century Nationalist view on the old faith. Especially with the mixing of German and old Norse terms.

                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      The no, I clearly do not want use Norway. Game is based on idea of secret Bale Hounds inflitration of modern Protectorate. It sounds as in Norway all Protectorates are simply run by Bale Hounds.
                      No. No it doesn't. It sounds as if an upswing of anti-establishment anger took expression in anti-Christian ideals. That meant old Norse and/or satanistic trappings. It doesn't mean that satanists were running Norway.
                      The Neo-Nazis of the Nordic countries are drenched in old pagan symbols, much to the annoyance of everyone who actually knows or cares about the past.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        I have no idea what Valkyrja Mot is about, since really, all the book talks about is how one joins them, and their rites. Not anything about their ideals and so on.
                        It's mention in mini prose introduction to Mot:

                        Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, p. 101’
                        To us, his chosen daughters, he gave the task of finding the best for him. Thus, we are called Summis-urdu, the choosers of the slain. That is our sacred duty, to send the greatest warriors to join his hall. At the death of a mighty warrior, we come to perform the Funeral Rite and speed them to the All-Father, Father Wolf in his den. Of course, we, too, will join our father’s pack when the time comes, and, for that reason, we must master the arts of war as well.

                        Sometimes, only when in great need, our elders may call us to fight together for some cause. For this reason, we often train together, to learn our own special arts of war. Know this: when the Valkyries go to war, we go to victory, or to the hall of the father of us all.
                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        A Valkyrie shouldn't care about the funeral. Once the guy is dead, that's it. The Valkyries (myth), are all about making sure the strong warriors die, so that Freyja or the All-Father gets their soldiers.
                        It's bluntly told in Blasphemies book:

                        Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, p. 102’
                        The Valkyries also have their own version of the Funeral Rite. Valkyries only preside over the funerals of those the Valkyries feel will help the All-Father. The body is ritually burned with its weapons, and blood is spilled, normally that of domestic animals but sometimes raven or eagles to honor the greatest warriors. The rite is in every way similar to the normal Funeral Rite, unless the Valkyrie achieves an exceptional success. When this happens, one of the blessed Vettier, the ancestor-spirits of the Valkyries, appears, leading a pack of midnight-black wolves. They then bear the werewolf’s body and spirit into the ancestor realm of Asgard.

                        The death of a valiant warrior in a chronicle is a great way to get this mot involved in your campaign. Imagine the scene of a Valkyrie interrupting funeral preparations, or even the rite itself so as to send a player’s friend to Valhalla….

                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        Really, the Mots look like the 19th century Nationalist view on the old faith. Especially with the mixing of German and old Norse terms. .
                        And? It’s like saying that Mage: The Awakening is historically incorrect as they using neo-platonistic ideologies in modern times – it’s RPG game, some simplifications and highlights are needed for ‘Rule of Cool’. You said that werewolves-valkyries sending fallen warriors to All-Father is ‘historically incorrect’ – I just say ‘we talk here about werewolves-valkyries’.

                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        No. No it doesn't. It sounds as if an upswing of anti-establishment anger took expression in anti-Christian ideals. That meant old Norse and/or satanistic trappings. It doesn't mean that satanists were running Norway.
                        The Neo-Nazis of the Nordic countries are drenched in old pagan symbols, much to the annoyance of everyone who actually knows or cares about the past.
                        I don’t have problem on using Norway with mixing Neo-Nazis with old pagan religions – Apocalypse Get of Fenris was all about this – but I have problem with this particular chronicle idea I have in mind. If the story is about uncovering Bale Hounds and in Norway satanists have much more easier time to work in normal society – story about confronting PCs with surprising Bale Hounds have a lot less impact. Satanist spoil my idea by not running the country – just by being much more accepted in this society, ironiclly.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 12-07-2016, 03:45 PM.


                        My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
                        MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
                        WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                          It's mention in mini prose introduction to Mot:


                          It's bluntly told in Blasphemies book:
                          Ugh.. So.. Bad.
                          I.. Just... Fuck it. Nevermind.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          And? It’s like saying that Mage: The Awakening is historically incorrect as they using neo-platonistic ideologies in modern times – it’s RPG game, some simplifications and highlights are needed for ‘Rule of Cool’. You said that werewolves-valkyries sending fallen warriors to All-Father is ‘historically incorrect’ – I just say ‘we talk here about werewolves-valkyries’.
                          Yeah. But Mage goes a long way to distance itself from the, quite frankly racist, connections the 19th century ideas they draw upon.
                          The Mot's just stink of that specific part of it. "The Volk"? Each. That leaves a damn sour taste in my mouth.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          I don’t have problem on using Norway with mixing Neo-Nazis with old pagan religions – Apocalypse Get of Fenris was all about this – but I have problem with this particular chronicle idea I have in mind. If the story is about uncovering Bale Hounds and in Norway satanists have much more easier time to work in normal society – story about confronting PCs with surprising Bale Hounds have a lot less impact. Satanist spoil my idea by not running the country – just by being much more accepted in this society, ironiclly.
                          Satanists in Norway sure as fuck don't have an easier time working in normal society.
                          Those people who did that are hated. They are criminals, and they are seen as criminals.
                          If you feel you really want to know more, google Burzum, and read up on that guy.

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                          • #14
                            They might be more common, but they're certainly not accepted in Norway. These guys are almost universally considered criminals. Many of them are criminals. Those who aren't are still supportive of their criminal companions.

                            Edit: What Seidmadr said. I write damn slow.

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                            • #15
                              Returning to topic, if we assume that I go with Norway Werewolf setting, maybe you can point me to city or town that is from circa 800 still, to this day ( even as part of greater metropoly )? I would like to have continuation of actions in more or less the same place across 1200 years in game.


                              My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
                              MtAw 2E - History of Awakened - (almost) canonical game timeline of events
                              WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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