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Dark Eras - The Fall of Fenris

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  • #16
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    Well not Ragnarok myths of Fenris destroying the World being there popular in Northern cultures around early 800s?
    Maybe. Is there textual or archeological evidence we can point to of Fenris that early? Like I said, I just did a quick google, not an exhaustive search. Maybe I'll hit JSTOR in the morning.


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    • #17
      A random idea that came to me a little after reading the section on the Chains. In its current form, it either breaks some rules on spirits or is still lacking in its effects. All input on this Fetish is welcome and appreciated.

      Chain of Fenris (Fetish ooo to ooooo)
      When Destroyer Wolf breaks free from the chains which hold him prisoner, some of his Essence is imbued into their fragments, transforming them into powerful and unique Fetishes. While they cannot bring low a Firstborn or a spirit of equal power, they remain potent tools in binding lesser spirits.

      Effect: Each Chain of Fenris can function as a bane against spirits whose Rank is equal to or less than half their dot rating, rounded up.
      Last edited by Deionscribe; 02-10-2017, 02:16 PM.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
        Maybe. Is there textual or archeological evidence we can point to of Fenris that early? Like I said, I just did a quick google, not an exhaustive search. Maybe I'll hit JSTOR in the morning.
        Most written accounts about both Fenrir (the common name when not writing "the Fenris Wolf" as a compound word) and Ragnarök comes from the two Eddas so those myths were definitely alive by the 1100s. But earlier art that depicts Fenrir and Týr is not uncommon. The earliest piece of art that is believed to depict Fenrir and Týr came from the 400s (the Golden Horns of Gallehus).
        Ragnarök is a bit more difficult to depict, but there is art from Anglo-Saxon crosses/rune stones on Isle of Man and the Hebrides from the 900s that is generally thought to depict Ragnarök. It's hard to say how much the myths has changed over the years, but it's quite likely some version was told as early as the 800s. Just how common it was is another matter.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
          Wow! This is awesome on so many levels! I was just asking on the main CofD forum if people would be interested in Night Horrors books for individual eras. This looks like exactly the type of thing I would hope out of one of those books!

          I'm actually trying to finish up my timeline for The Wolf and the Raven right now, so my mind immediately asks when Fenris was likely chained. The earliest reference to him I can find with a quick google is Thorwald's Cross, which some have dated to 940. So maybe late 800s early 900s?
          ​Given the Dark Era's covered time period is supposed to begin at ~700, I'd say maybe in the 600s so there's time for it to start to percolate through.


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          • #20
            Where are described Hive-Claimed more, that Jotuns are? Do they have some Rank or Horror Potency to judge their 'threat level' to the werewolf pack? Could I just put one giant in starting story and hope that my pack players will not be killed in first 3 rounds?


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            • #21
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              Where are described Hive-Claimed more, that Jotuns are? Do they have some Rank or Horror Potency to judge their 'threat level' to the werewolf pack? Could I just put one giant in starting story and hope that my pack players will not be killed in first 3 rounds?
              The way I see it, the jotnar aren't the type of foe you just toss out into the Chronicle. Plus, fighting one encourages players to be smarter in combat rather than relying just on brute force.

              On a semi-related note, seeing as I read Conquering Heroes recently, another idea came to mind. What if (some of) the jotnar are not Hive-Claimed, but Insatiables? Granted, that would already extend into crossover territory, but it does fit in my opinion.
              Last edited by Deionscribe; 02-10-2017, 09:38 AM.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                Where are described Hive-Claimed more, that Jotuns are? Do they have some Rank or Horror Potency to judge their 'threat level' to the werewolf pack? Could I just put one giant in starting story and hope that my pack players will not be killed in first 3 rounds?
                The current available rules for Hive-Claimed are in the "Forge Servant (Claimed)" Essence Shaping power of the Idigam on page 219 of the corebook.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Where are described Hive-Claimed more, that Jotuns are? Do they have some Rank or Horror Potency to judge their 'threat level' to the werewolf pack? Could I just put one giant in starting story and hope that my pack players will not be killed in first 3 rounds?
                  Hive-Claimed rules are in the idigam section of the corebook. Broadly speaking, for a Hive-Claimed, assume it is significantly tougher than a normal Claimed of the same Rank, depending on just how many spirits are crammed in there. These jotnar have additional Dread Powers that make them even tougher.

                  Originally posted by Deionscribe View Post

                  On a semi-related note, seeing as I read Conquering Heroes recently, another idea came to mind. What if (some of) the jotnar are not Hive-Claimed, but Insatiables? Granted, that would already extend into crossover territory, but it does fit in my opinion.
                  ​I haven't read Conquering Heroes and don't know anything about Insatiables. From what I do​ know of Beast, which may be inapplicable in the case of Insatiables, it seems unlikely.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
                    Maybe. Is there textual or archeological evidence we can point to of Fenris that early? Like I said, I just did a quick google, not an exhaustive search. Maybe I'll hit JSTOR in the morning.

                    Fenris appears on gold bracteates at least as early as 500 ad (however I want to say earlier, maybe a hundred years or so, perhaps a lot earlier given that he would have to be developed enough to appear on a worship item like a gold disc). Fenris is featured biting the hand of Tiwaz, pre- Odin introduction into scandinavian culture. It predates the massive volcanic eruption of (iirc) Iceland that blotted out the sun for roughly a year. This time period of the mid 500's corresponds to the time when Tiwaz drops down to Tyr and loses his/her status as the sky god (originally hermaphroditic) and is replaced by the war deity from the south, Wodan/Odin.

                    This does make Fenrir in norse mythos OLDER in the cosmology then Odin. I am not sure if Fenrir is in continental germanic paganism, or if he has an analogue in their culture. I've been told by an anglo-saxon heathen and historian that germanic heathenry lacks Loki.

                    This information, and more on the matter of sky worship can be found in "Tracing old norse cosmology: the world tree, middle earth and the sun in archaeological perspectives" by Anders Andren. (https://www.amazon.com/Tracing-Old-N...an+archaeology)

                    relevant bracteate: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPor...norse_god_tyr/


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                    • #25
                      Has anyone considered doing a crossover writeup for this? Granted, it wouldn't be too different from what was covered in the Wolf and the Raven, but I was thinking this one could focus more on the repercussions tied to Fenris-Ur's imprisonment. Also, if I read it correctly, Ymir happens to have several Beasts and changelings under its thrall, and they helped to weave together the Firstborn's prison.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
                        The Jotnar
                        At first, the Uratha thought the tales of giants in the north to be mere fancies, or perhaps errant spirits briefly crossing into the realm of Flesh. They soon enough discovered the true nature of the horrors of the mountains. The jotnar are Hive-Claimed; they are shuddering hulks infested with gibbering parliaments of spirits, their flesh twisted and reworked into colossal form. The giants can walk between worlds with ease, have mastery of dark rites and are possessed of immense strength. They can devour wild beasts, but prefer to steal away humans to grind their bones into flour and eat their viscera. Their ravenous hunger extends to spirits; the northern Shadow has stretches of wasteland, scoured of Essence to feed the maw of the jotnar brood. The jotnar die only to violence, not age nor disease nor infirmity.

                        The eldest of the giants, Ymir, made this abominable clan. How Ymir came to be is lost to memory, even amongst the surviving spirits of the north – and certainly Ymir himself. He is a cacophony of spirits of stone and mountain, ice and fire, all poured into one unstable vessel of incredible age. Craving children, of a kind, he made more Hive-Claimed through diabolical rites. In time, his children themselves sought children, and the brood grew as fat and bloated in numbers as their bodies were. It was inevitable they would clash with other powers. Their hunger cannot be contained nor limited.
                        Have some one good pictures for those Jotnar Hive-Claimed could look like? I set my players against one of them, so would be good to show them how those hulks looks - especially as crashing their puny wolf bodies.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                          Have some one good pictures for those Jotnar Hive-Claimed could look like? I set my players against one of them, so would be good to show them how those hulks looks - especially as crashing their puny wolf bodies.
                          They are Hive-Claimed. Imagine what a Claimed would look like. Then imagine what one with a different Spirit would look like. Now mash them together. There you go.


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                          • #28
                            I just cannot imagine 'multi-possed frost/earth/fire giant'. For example, let's look on some web artists graphics...

                            I understand it's not the Jotnar as described in text - giant from this graphics is too much 'whole', not enought 'possesed' to be Claimed, let alone Hive-Claimed.




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                            • #29
                              This one is on 'Maybe' as it's clearly more inhuman than previous - but still do not seemed to me as HIVE-Claimed...





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                              • #30
                                This two seems even more inhuman - but still not too much as Hive-Claimed...









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