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  • Uxas
    started a topic Wolf-Blooded lineages (brainstorming)

    Wolf-Blooded lineages (brainstorming)

    In first edition there were some wolf-blooded lineages, but they have no difference with regular Wolf-Blooded.

    In Vampire there are ghouls, and there are ghoul families, with some advantages and mechanical differences from ghouls.
    In Mage there are Sleepwalkers and there are Proximi, with some advantages and mechanical differences from Sleepwalkers.
    In Werewolf, there's (still) no difference among WB and WB lineages.

    ¿Has someone thought on some mechanical rules for WB families?

    I thought on some of them for 1st edition, but Im now trying to adapt them to 2nd.


    Some of my ideas:

    1) There will be two kinds of lineages, greater and lesser. Greater lineages are extended families with tens or hundred of members, product of werewolf breeding for centuries, in an extense territory. Lesser lineages are small local families, with less than ten members (more or less). These rules are for greater lineages.

    2) All WB lineages have two tells: one of them is fixed for all members of family. The other one can be choosed for the player. Im thinking in making the players pay for the second one. Not giving them free but paying 3 Merit dots for a second tell. Or even paying just one dot for changing their tell (with some social drawbacks for that).

    3) The greater lineages would have a Family Totem. A great spirit that protects the family and give them some benefits. Mechanically, that would work as a Lodge totem, with Blessing, Aspiration, Ban and Lore Merits (those Merits can include some Werewolf Merits). If that lineage is linked to a Lodge, they can use the same Totem and benefits for them.

    3b) Minor lineages (and local family branches of greater ones) can have their own local totem, as a pack.

    4) If they pay, they can access to Magnanimous Totem and some variant of Moon's Grace.


    Doubts:
    1) Should Family Totem give them a sacred prey benefit, as Lodges Totems?

    2) Do I give them access to family Renown? (if they have Moon's Grace and have access to gifts, it would be useful)

    3) I'm thinking some variant of Moon's Grace: What about limited to packs with Lineage members and werewolves from Tribes or Lodges the lineage is traditionally associated with:
    a) Example: the Ximeno Tribe is traditionally linked to the Hunters in the Darkness: they can buy this Merit if they belong to a pack comprised by Ximenos and Meninna, but they cannot if in their packs there are WB not of the family (although it is a WB only pack).

    4) Should I give them the benefits o a Mystery Cult? Or is that too much benefits for them?

    Thanks








    Has some one thought some mechanical effect for them? Or have different ideas about that?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Uxas; 01-20-2017, 06:38 PM. Reason: Updating with users ideas.

  • The young man in the cafe
    replied
    Originally posted by Uxas View Post
    That's an approximation I never thought about, but its interesting. I'll thought about it, but I'll want to be sure of not fucking it about them. I also want to invetigate the differences between the Spanish Romaníes and the East Europe Romaníes. In Spain there's less antiziganism than in other european countries (although there's still discrimination).

    I'd thought on them more as a protectors (and judges and "rulers") of romaní people, as a family who acts as intermediate and judges between other romaní families. As they are a Pure Lineage (in Spain, most of Romaní population lives in Andalucía, a Pure domain in my setting), I thought on giving them some dark aspect, but I want to do it well (it has to be clear than that "darkness" comes from their Pure aspect, not their Romaní aspect). May be creating to branches, as you suggested, one linked to the Forsaken, trying to clean up the mess from the Pure branch (the main one).

    Thanks for your suggestion.
    The darkness coming from the Pure side of the Vargas is kind of what I was going for with the European Vargas. Many Romani would love to have a homeland where they don't have to worry about French assholes kicking them out or the government taking their kids and that is a perfectly good to want. that the Vargas are using that dream to try and create a Pure tribes nation on top of that is the darkness part.

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  • Uxas
    replied
    That's an approximation I never thought about, but its interesting. I'll thought about it, but I'll want to be sure of not fucking it about them. I also want to invetigate the differences between the Spanish Romaníes and the East Europe Romaníes. In Spain there's less antiziganism than in other european countries (although there's still discrimination).

    I'd thought on them more as a protectors (and judges and "rulers") of romaní people, as a family who acts as intermediate and judges between other romaní families. As they are a Pure Lineage (in Spain, most of Romaní population lives in Andalucía, a Pure domain in my setting), I thought on giving them some dark aspect, but I want to do it well (it has to be clear than that "darkness" comes from their Pure aspect, not their Romaní aspect). May be creating to branches, as you suggested, one linked to the Forsaken, trying to clean up the mess from the Pure branch (the main one).

    Thanks for your suggestion.
    Last edited by Uxas; 04-02-2017, 01:28 AM.

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  • The young man in the cafe
    replied
    Regarding your Romani Vargas lineage, it might best to split them into an American and a European branch.

    Given how the Romani are stilling being persecuted to this day in Europe and how the EU doesn't really do anything about it.. maybe the European branch of the Vargas are a family that leads a radical Romani group, whose stated goal is a sovereign homeland for their persecuted people. That the Vargas, and thus the Ivory Claws, would be among this new nation's rulers goes without saying.

    Given that American Romani are more assimilated, have a large presence in southern California and that one of the first Romani ethnic groups to come to America made their reputation as performers, the branch of the Vargas Family in the States is probably very high up in Hollywood and are the main ivory claw presence in the film and TV industries. They act embarrassed about their terrorist/freedom fighter cousins in Europe when asked about it by the press, but secretly send them a check every few months, after all, one must keep up the Romanipen and sharing one's success is a key pillar of that.

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  • Uxas
    replied
    CAMPEADORES
    The Campeadores are a brave warrior lineage linked to the Blood Talons, who claim being descendents of the Cid Campeador (a Blood Talon, acording the Suthar Anzuth). They use to work as military, policemen or security guards and are one of the most compromised people in the Segunda Reconquista (the current war of the Forsaken against the Pure in Spain), even more than a lot of Werewolves.
    Other surnames: Rodrigo, Rodríguez, Edrigu, Roc, Roderic, Roi, Roque, Díaz, Vivar...
    Tribe: Blood Talons
    Family Tell: A Wolf's Meat
    Patron: Espada-Colada (professedly, the spirit of one of the swords of the Cid)
    Taboo: Being a coward during a fight.



    XIMENO
    The Ximeno are are an ancient family of Meigas (country witches) maybe come from the prerroman celts (although theres no evidence o them before the Middle Ages). They were specially common in Galicia and Asturias, as the local witches, healers and mediums in isolated villages). But in last 50 years, with te galician migration from rural to urban spaces, a lot of them have movedto the cities and eve to other regions of Spain.
    Other surnames: Eiximenis, Jimena, Jiménez, Jimeno, Ximena, Ximenes, Ximénez.
    Tribe: Bone Shadows
    Family Tell: As a result of their traditional isolationism, the Linaeage has evolved distintly in different villages, so they have different Tells. There are three main Tells (players can chose any of them without suffering the Foreign Tell Condition): Horse, Piercing Eyes, and Waystone.
    Patron: Forest-Cleaning, a natural Spirit.
    Taboo: Treating the spirits without the respect they deserve.
    Extra: Theres also a branch of the family who is a Proximi Lineage.


    ALMOGÀVER
    The Loner Company Lodge was born with the Greek expedition of the AlmoCatalan Company in Middle Ages. They all were from humble class, despised by nobles, but their warrior spirit was great. Among them there were some wolf-blooded and even a few Werewolves, all of them Ghost Wolves. Under the protection of a martial spirit, they united in a Lodge, in order to protect themselves and other Ghost Wolves from Pure and Forsaken. Currently, from their base in Balearic Islands, they have become a mercenary company who protects other ghost wolves and fights for whoever pays them (currently, they are helping the Forsaken against the Pure in the Spanish 2nd Reconquista). In the Loner Lodge, their wolf-blooded are very respected and appreciated, being full members as any Ghost Wolf).
    Other surnames: Almogávar, Almugávar, Berenguer, Entença, Flor /de Flor, Rocafort.
    Tribe: Ghost Wolves / Loner Company Lodge
    Family Tell: Anger Issues
    Patron: Despertaferro (Awaken-Iron), a magath of different weapons, armors and martial concepts. He is the same Patron to the Lodge.
    Taboo: Don't allow or help in the mistreating of other Ghost Wolves neither their wolf-blooded.



    VILLALAR (Lesser Lineage)
    In XVI Century, there was the Revolt of the Comuneros in Castilla, when a lot of Castilian cities revolted against King Charles I (the later Holy Emperor Charles V). Among the revolters there were some wolf-blooded, who, although they were not revolting against werewolves, they were cruelly punished by them, specially by the Crusaders of Santiago, whose wolf-blooded lineage (the Santiago), were allies of the king. But that unfair punishment caused a second revolt of wolf-blooded, this time against the Uratha, becoming the Villalar family (in memory of the Battle of Villalar, where the Comuneros were defeated and later punished). During centuries theyve trained to fight and hunt werewolves and rescuing other wolf-blooded from them.
    Other surnames: Acuña, Bravo, Maldonado, Pacheco o Padilla
    Tribe: None.
    Family Tell: None special. As they rescue other wolf-blooded and join the family, there's a lot of diversity among them, but the tells useful in combat are very common (Anger Issues, A Wolf's Meat or Bite, among others). Bitten is a very common second Tell.
    Patron: None. Although some spirits have offered being their Patron, they have always refused. They dont want to change a form of slavery for another one.
    Taboo: As they have no Patron, they have no mystical Taboo.
    Extra: The Villalar also are Hunters, and can use Hunter Tactics. They are not a Compact or Conspiracy, and they use to join other Hunter organizations. The most common, through, is Comisiones Humanas (Human Commissions, the Spanish version of the Union).


    I also want to create a Romaní Lineage linked to the Ivory Claws, the Vargas, but I dont wanna fall in ethnic offensive stereotypes, so I have still not written it.



    EDIT: English is not my first language, so is there's something that os not as clear as I would like, ask me for clarification.
    Last edited by Uxas; 04-01-2017, 11:00 PM.

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  • Uxas
    replied
    SANTIAGO
    The Santiago are an ancient noble Lineage. They claim once belonged to the Grandees of Spain (the highest dignity of the Spains nobility) but lost that dignity after supporting to the Austriacists in the War of Spanish Succession, suffering a Damnatio Memoriae. But in the next centuries they recovered their power and influence, and today are one of the main players of Spanish politics and economy.
    Other surnames: Diego, Diéguez, Iago, Jacobo, Jaime, Jaimes, Jáimez, Jakob, Jaume, Yago, Yágüez
    Tribe: Storm Lords, and Crusaders of Santiago Lodge.
    Family Tell: Alfa Predator
    Patron: Grandee-of-Spain, a (or maybe, "the") spirit of Spanish nobility
    Taboo: Behaving in a vulgar way below their social position.



    Alpha Predator Tell:
    The wolf-blooded is a natural born alpha, he was born to command, to lead. He knows it and people know it. However, just as its body language, its voice, its look ... it points out to an alphas, sometimes it can happen the opposite, and it delates him as a predator, so people tend to shy away.

    Boon: The wolf-blooded has always shined in his social relations. People instinctively know he's an alpha born to rule. His movement, his gait, his gaze ... a multitude of microsignals on his body language point towards it. Whenever you deal with other humans, your social rolls enjoy the Repeat 9s quality.
    But for the same reason, the wolf-blooded, usedto command, does not tolerate not being obeyed or not being treated with the deference he deserves. Whenever a Social roll fails, your Benefit will be reversed (except with Intimidation). For the rest of the scene, people will not see him as an alpha, but rather as a predator (or a bully, a thug abuser) to better avoid, so their social rolls will lose the Repeat 10s quality (and obviously, Repeat 9s as well).
    This weakness does not apply to werewolves, for he knows the blood-lupine knows how to recognize a superior predator as an alpha. But it does applies with other Santiago (they are a very competitive family).



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  • Uxas
    replied
    Yeah, they're canon since first Edition (Blood of the Wolf), but they haven't any mechanic associated, while Ghoul families and Proximi Lineages had one, so I wanted to create some for them.

    About the rules revised:

    ​1) Many Lineages are linked to a Tribe or Lodge (in a few cases to an Auspice, too, although this is very rare). However, this is not mandatory practice.

    2) Werewolves from a certain Lineage obtain a bonus of +2 to all Social rolls with wolf-blooded of that Lineage (at Storyteller discretion, that bonus may apply to other Uratha from the Tribe or Lodge associated whith that Lineage).

    3) There are two kinds of Lineages, Greater and Lesser. The difference is not about the number of members, but about whether it has a Patron spirit.

    ​4) All members of each Greater Lineage (and from some Lesser ones, at Storyteller discretion) have a common Tell. The character can choose a second personal Tell by paying three Merits dots. Or you can change yours for another Tell by paying one dot (suffering the Foreign Tell Condition, associated with the rejection you may suffer from your family).

    5) Greater Lineages have a Family Patron. A great spirit who protects the family and gives them some benefits, but also imposes them a Taboo. Mechanically, this means that all members of that Lineage receive a free variant of the Magnanimous Totem Merit, which allows them to acquire the Merit Family Totem (which functions exactly as the Totem Merit to the Uratha, but among pack members of that Lineage). The Patron determines the benefits they can gain from the Totem (usually, a subordinate spirit to the Patron), and if they break the Taboo, they lose those benefits).

    6) Greater Lineages have free access to a 3-dots variant of the Moon's Grace Merit (allowing them access to Pack Tactics). This variant only works with packs with wolf-blooded from the same Lineage or wreewolves who, before the First Change, belonged to the same Lineage and pack.



    NEW CONDITION: FOREIGN TELL (PERSISTENT)
    Although you belong to a wolf-blooded Lineage, your Tell is different from the Lineage's one. Although this does not turns you an outcast, you are not seen as truly belonging to the Lineage by many of its members. When you socialize with them, in the social rolls, the 10s are not repeated and the 1s subtract successes.
    Possible Sources: Perhaps one of your parents belonged to another Lineage. Or maybe Luna is just capricious.
    Resolution: You develop the Family Tell as a second Tell, or you experience the First Change.
    Beat: When you need help from your Lineage, but this is denied you because of your "impure" origin
    Last edited by Uxas; 04-01-2017, 09:22 PM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Does not those Wolf Blooded Linages connected to particular Tribes are practicly canon as barbaric Uratha in Germania Uratha works in Forsaken by Rome Dark Era?

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  • Uxas
    replied
    Finally, I've worked them as Packs with Totems, but with a Lineage Patron.

    Tomorrow I'll translate the rules (I've written them in Spanish) and put some concepts of them.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Pardon the necromancy, but might you be able to list some examples, as a proof of concept and to illustrate how it should work out?

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  • Uxas
    replied
    Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
    1. So it's just terminology, then?
    Not just terminology. Greater lineages would work as Lodges, mechanically. Lesser lineages would work as packs. As point three.

    2. Is the second Tell the packaged Benefits+Drawback, or something else?
    It would work as a normal Tell. With its packaged Benefits+Drawback. So I'm unsure if make the players pay it or just gave it for free to whoever wants it.

    4. Would this vary by Totem/Lineage, or all have access to it?
    Probably will vary, but Im not still thought all the details. Maybe Moon's Grace only allows them access to certain specific Gifts specifically linked to the family's theme or their Tribu associated. But I stll have to work this part. It was an idea for a 1st Edition Setting and I'm just updating it to 2nd Edition rules, with a lot of changes (1st edition splat was linked to the variable WB Merit).

    1. I don't see why - Wolf-Blooded aren't default Hunters the way werewolves are. They often fulfill other roles, so tying them to Sacred Prey may not make sense.
    Yeah, that was what I thought, but I had doubts. So no Sacred Prey benefit.

    2. Are you saying they have access to Renown, or their entire Family has one Renown pool?
    They have access to Renown, they can buy it as Werewolves. I thought an specifical kind of Renown. But I still have to work this.

    4. I'd think some have Mystery Cults, but it wouldn't be something they have by default. The largest, longest lived lineages probably have one (or more!), but that's more the function of being a large, old cult (albeit bound by blood).
    Yeah. I was thinking in the greatest and oldest lineages. Not the small families.

    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by Uxas; 01-22-2017, 03:06 PM.

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by Uxas View Post
    Edited first post ith some of yours ideas:

    Some of my ideas:

    1) There will be two kinds of lineages, greater and lesser. Greater lineages are extended families with tens or hundred of members, product of werewolf breeding for centuries, in an extense territory. Lesser lineages are small local families, with less than ten members (more or less). These rules are for greater lineages.

    2) All WB lineages have two tells: one of them is fixed for all members of family. The other one can be choosed for the player. Im thinking in making the players pay for the second one. Not giving them free but paying 3 Merit dots for a second tell. Or even paying just one dot for changing their tell (with some social drawbacks for that).

    3) The greater lineages would have a Family Totem. A great spirit that protects the family and give them some benefits. Mechanically, that would work as a Lodge totem, with Blessing, Aspiration, Ban and Lore Merits (those Merits can include some Werewolf Merits). If that lineage is linked to a Lodge, they can use the same Totem and benefits for them.

    3b) Minor lineages (and local family branches of greater ones) can have their own local totem, as a pack.

    4) If they pay, they can access to Magnanimous Totem and some variant of Moon's Grace.

    But I still have some doubts:

    1) Should Family Totem give them a sacred prey benefit, as Lodges Totems?

    2) Do I give them access to family Renown? (if they have Moon's Grace and have access to gifts, it would be useful)

    3) I'm thinking some variant of Moon's Grace: What about limited to packs with Lineage members and werewolves from Tribes or Lodges the lineage is traditionally associated with:
    a) Example: the Ximeno Tribe is traditionally linked to the Hunters in the Darkness: they can buy this Merit if they belong to a pack comprised by Ximenos and Meninna, but they cannot if in their packs there are WB not of the family (although it is a WB only pack).

    4) Should I give them the benefits o a Mystery Cult? Or is that too much benefits for them?

    1. So it's just terminology, then?
    2. Is the second Tell the packaged Benefits+Drawback, or something else?
    3. Nice theme, and source of the effects.
    4. Would this vary by Totem/Lineage, or all have access to it?

    1. I don't see why - Wolf-Blooded aren't default Hunters the way werewolves are. They often fulfill other roles, so tying them to Sacred Prey may not make sense.
    2. Are you saying they have access to Renown, or their entire Family has one Renown pool?
    3. Sounds complicated.
    4. I'd think some have Mystery Cults, but it wouldn't be something they have by default. The largest, longest lived lineages probably have one (or more!), but that's more the function of being a large, old cult (albeit bound by blood).

    Leave a comment:


  • Uxas
    replied
    Edited first post ith some of yours ideas:

    Some of my ideas:

    1) There will be two kinds of lineages, greater and lesser. Greater lineages are extended families with tens or hundred of members, product of werewolf breeding for centuries, in an extense territory. Lesser lineages are small local families, with less than ten members (more or less). These rules are for greater lineages.

    2) All WB lineages have two tells: one of them is fixed for all members of family. The other one can be choosed for the player. Im thinking in making the players pay for the second one. Not giving them free but paying 3 Merit dots for a second tell. Or even paying just one dot for changing their tell (with some social drawbacks for that).

    3) The greater lineages would have a Family Totem. A great spirit that protects the family and give them some benefits. Mechanically, that would work as a Lodge totem, with Blessing, Aspiration, Ban and Lore Merits (those Merits can include some Werewolf Merits). If that lineage is linked to a Lodge, they can use the same Totem and benefits for them.

    3b) Minor lineages (and local family branches of greater ones) can have their own local totem, as a pack.

    4) If they pay, they can access to Magnanimous Totem and some variant of Moon's Grace.

    But I still have some doubts:

    1) Should Family Totem give them a sacred prey benefit, as Lodges Totems?

    2) Do I give them access to family Renown? (if they have Moon's Grace and have access to gifts, it would be useful)

    3) I'm thinking some variant of Moon's Grace: What about limited to packs with Lineage members and werewolves from Tribes or Lodges the lineage is traditionally associated with:
    a) Example: the Ximeno Tribe is traditionally linked to the Hunters in the Darkness: they can buy this Merit if they belong to a pack comprised by Ximenos and Meninna, but they cannot if in their packs there are WB not of the family (although it is a WB only pack).

    4) Should I give them the benefits o a Mystery Cult? Or is that too much benefits for them?
    Last edited by Uxas; 01-20-2017, 09:24 PM.

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  • Uxas
    replied
    Originally posted by Arcanist View Post

    If I recall correctly, there's a precedent for it. In The Pack there's the Moon's Grace Merit (on pg. 31) that gives Human and/or Wolf-Blooded packs access to Pack Tactics, Wolf Rites, Renown and Shadow/Wolf Gifts (at three, four, and five dots, respectively). The standard use of Totem would probably be unlikely, just by sheer numbers, but purchasing Magnanimous Totem (The Pack pg. 30) would help counteract that, and it would mean they'd have to spend time honouring the Totem too, which gives them the 'weird family tradition' angle.

    Alternatively, treat it as a small Lodge Totem, which means that the Totem Blessing is more abstract and less concrete.
    Thank you very much. This information has been very useful. I'm thinking how to include those Merits in it.

    About the Totem, I think that I'll go for the Lodge version. I'm thinking more on extended families than can have tens or hundreds of members, products of the breeding by werewolves during centuries. If so, they should have also a Sisku-dar?
    For lesser families of few members (or local branches of great lineages), I think I'll go with the totem merits option.

    Im going to edit with those ideas.

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  • Arcanist
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    I don't see why a wolf-blooded would get Renown. Or what they'd do with it.

    You might give them one of the Tribal Blood Merits.
    If I recall correctly, there's a precedent for it. In The Pack there's the Moon's Grace Merit (on pg. 31) that gives Human and/or Wolf-Blooded packs access to Pack Tactics, Wolf Rites, Renown and Shadow/Wolf Gifts (at three, four, and five dots, respectively). The standard use of Totem would probably be unlikely, just by sheer numbers, but purchasing Magnanimous Totem (The Pack pg. 30) would help counteract that, and it would mean they'd have to spend time honouring the Totem too, which gives them the 'weird family tradition' angle.

    Alternatively, treat it as a small Lodge Totem, which means that the Totem Blessing is more abstract and less concrete.

    Leave a comment:

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