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  • The Lords of Pangaea- Today!

    Sundered World has gave us the concept of the pangaeans- the very spirit principles of the world, existing between flesh and spirit. While we do know the fate of some of those primal gods from before civilization (Father Wolf, for example), some are shrouded in mystery, becoming either spirit, flesh or simply dying. That means that there is a chance that at least some of those are still around, in one form or another. While thinking of the subject, I've made a small list of the possible fate of the pangaeans we know about, and those we don't. Here is what I have-

    Cannon Pangaeans

    Wolf- dead, of course. His legacy is left behind in the Uratha, and perhaps in the shards of the Wolf Host

    Bird- still around, apparently. Serpent's Tooth (Collection of Horrors 12) seem to describe that she and Snake are still fighting each other over in the US. In my head canon, she is the power behind the creation of the Distant Ones' ritual.

    Bull- unknown, although he is the one to make the ritual of creating Baal Hadad. In my homebrew, during the ancient days he built himself a power base in the Levant to supply him with Essence, believing himself to be Wolf's righteous heir. However, his desire for power has allowed corruption to creep into his heart, and damned him to Inferno. He took the name of Moloch and prospered upon human sacrifices, until he was bound- yet the rite of Moloch kept feeding him. Thinking that Bull was dead and gone, the God Machine tried to exploit the unused sacrifices and take over them. It regretted it quit quickly, as it lost a huge chunk of its Infrastructures to Moloch.

    Cat- unknown, but it is safe to assume that she is the one to create the Colony. As I, together with Arcanist and Deionscribe, write Apep as an Idigam, in my headcanon she played a key roll at defeating the Chaos Serpent as it awakened in the Bronze Age Collapse. She may have been killed in the process (or not, haven't decided yet), but her legacy was forever captured in the myths of Egypt in the form of Bast, and the Colony was created to protect the world from the human evil which allowed Apep to awaken. May even exist in Duat as an honorary "Nameless Goddess".

    Snake- alive, as Serpent's Tooth suggests- but it doesn't mean she has never been killed. In my head canon, either through a pact with Sea, some Underworld power or even through her own power, Snake is able to cheat death- and every time she dies, she swims out of the Underworld while replacing her skin. The Snake Hosts were created during one of the times she died. She actually spends most of her time in the Underworld, with the ophidians I've write as her progeny.

    Sea- nothing official, but I believe her to be the creator of the Brineborn. If that's the case, if we believe that Brineborn's feeling, she is still well and waiting to devour us all.

    Fox- dead already before Pangaea has fallen. She may be Inari, and as such the one responsible for the Siten Uzu's creation.

    Spider- dead and shattered, becoming the Spider Host.

    Rat- Dead and shattered, becoming the Rat Host.

    Mountain- defeated by Father Wolf, but maybe he is still around. The cannibal children from Asylum who are brainwashed by a great Mountain not-really-spirit seem to suggest he feel into dormancy from which its was lately awakened.

    Firstborns- we know about 8 of them which are still around, and about at least 1 which was killed and returned to life (perhaps two, as I think I remember that Apollo the Sun Wolf has an Omphalos Stone- maybe he is one of the Twins?). The Player's Guide, when suggesting new Tribes, has offered that some of them may still hide deep in the Shadow. If Soulless Wolf is what he say he is and not just a fake persona used by the Maeljin, then at least one of them has also fell to Inferno's clutches.

    Harvest (not really canon)- unknown. Maybe still around.

    Potential Pangaeans

    Raven/Crow- dead and shattered, creating the Halaku. In my headcanon, Raven and Crow were twin Pangaeans, one which was defeated by Father Wolf during Pangaea and another which was defeated after the Sundering. Raven has made the more "friendly" host, which just watch through the eyes of others. Crow has made the more vicious Karasu from Japan.

    Fungi/Rot- the last pangaeans, dead and shattered after growing from Wolf's corpse. Creating the Fungal Host

    Worm- potential progenitor of the Worm Host, probably dead and shattered. On the other hand, it could be the Zmai from Predators, and the potential Progenitor of the Nosferatu- so it is still alive (or cheated death, as I believe Worm would have dots in Death) and as such still around, worming its way through the earth and enslaving others to its goal.

    Leech- potential progenitor of the Leech Host, probably dead and shattered.

    Lamprey- potential progenitor of the Lampery Host, probably dead and shattered.

    Crab- potential progenitor of the Crab Host, probably dead and shattered.

    Cicada- potential progenitor of the Cicada Host, probably dead and shattered.

    Jaguar- not officially a pangaean, but Ka'an Balam from Skinchangers does seem to be one. At any case, his finale fate is unknown, although I think he is still out there, leaving the Kanaima behind.

    Cockroach- not officially exist, but the Unclean does seem to come from somewhere. I think it should have some connection with the Underworld. I'm also a fan of the top 5 pangaeans being united during the days of Pangaea, and since then that council still somewhat exist. At the ancient days, it was Wolf, Bull, Bird, Snake and Cat. After Wolf's death, Sea took his place, and after Bull's fall, Cockroach- the best of survivors, found his way in.

    Locust- yeah, I know, he is an idigam, but that made me thinking- before Sundered World, I've always thought all of the Shartha progenitors were idigams, and before that I've thought they were "just" powerful spirit lord. So, can both Idigam and Pangaeans make hosts? Are the "hosts" simply being a phenomena which could be created every time a powerful ephemeral being (spirits, ghosts, goetia, angels, heck- maybe strixs?) gets shattered and tries to cheat death? Or maybe it is something stranger still- after all, were are told that many pangaeans turned spirits after the Sundering- and idigams are a type of spirit. Maybe pangaeans could become Moon Banished, too?

    Turtle- unknown, ask Deionscribe

    Moth- dead and shattered.. probably. I'll have to write it down.

    Ant- dead and shattered

    Mosquito- dead and shattered

    Bee- dead and shattered, probably. Ask Cinder.

    Bat- again, I know that they came from an Idigam. We'll have to ask Cinder what they think about the whole "hosts come from Pangaeans" thing. Should there be any fundamental difference between idigam spawned Hosts and Pangaean ones? Should Goetic Host be different than a ghostly one? Or maybe when the Obsidian Butterfly threw her heart into the chasm, Bat has consumed it, leading to its shattering- and those shards, touched by the heart of an idigam, became the Bat Host? Or maybe she also was once in the past a Pangaean, and was turned into an idigam for some unknown reason? Her shattering her own heart does sounds as if it was an Omphalos Stone..

    Bear- maybe still alive. I'll have him alive in my games, as the patron of the conspiracy version of the Bear Lodge :P

    Electricity/Lightning- if a Pangaean is alive and well, is this one.

    Frost- unknown

    Owl- a potential Pangaen who fell to the Lower Depths and became the mother of all strix.

    so- what are your theories about the finale fate of the lords of the ancient world?
    Last edited by LostLight; 02-21-2017, 05:47 PM.


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  • #2
    I believe the creator of the Brineborn was an idigam, specifically Afzu'Umm'Ia from the Bristol setting. I'd probably have Sea still exist, perhaps in a pseudo Pangaea deep under the ocean or in some fantastic monstrous form like out of Illuminatus!

    I think Incandescent turned into Apollo.

    Mountain does seem to be linked to the children from Asylum, I'd probably have that as a vestige. Mountain could be linked with God-Machine, too.

    Aegis Kai Doru has a weird reference to a Mistress of Honey and Asterion the Bull that always seemed to not quite fit spirits. I suppose they could be Supernal entities but in going with the Pangaean theme they could be them. I suppose Bull, after having parts of his soul stolen, may be trapped in some sort of magical labyrinth, perhaps inside its omphalos. But the Pangaeans are so monstrous, it's hard to imagine anyone confusing one for a 'mistress.'

    I prefer Soulless wolf as one of the 'true' Firstborn, and their being Soulless has a new meaning, considering what we know from Dark Eras.

    I have Serpent managing to struggle on until killed or dying by sacrificing its omphalos to 'live on' in a Uratha.

    Fear, Flight or Nightmare, might have run off to the Astral to become the Primordial Dream.

    The Rockies has a really old and powerful bear spirit that might be Bear.

    There's so many potential Pangaeans it would be easy to really associate one in a game.
    Last edited by nofather; 02-08-2017, 03:29 PM.

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    • #3
      We have Harvest representing autumn, so what could the other seasonal Pangaeans be?


      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
        Other potential seasonal Pangaeans like Rot and Frost could quite possibly have Death, though, as well as Pangaeans of the sea.
        Could probably have Rut for Spring, too. I think you'd have more than four. 'Harvest is a Pangaean of autumn.'

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        • #5
          Bull is dead. As mentioned at the story hook for the Baal Hadad. It was killed by Father Wolf just wanted to point that out.
          But this is fun thread don't get me wrong.

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          • #6
            What about Nam Uha, the progenitor of the Thar Akuru from Skinchangers? By my headcanon based on this, perhaps he could be the offspring of one of your two proposed corvid Pangaeans?

            Also, might I also add my creation, Turtle, to the list of potential Pangaeans? Here's his description below.

            Turtle, Calm and Contemplative

            Though an unfamiliar god to most of the Vinca, this Pangaean is honored by coastal and seafaring tribes in different parts of the world. He is also one of the very few denizens of the Border Marches who can pass into the Worlds of Spirit and Flesh without facing reprisal from Urfarah. Why this is the case is a mystery for Uratha and wise alike.

            Background: One of the greater gods of the Border Marches, it is said that this Pangaean rivals Urfarah in age as well as power. Such a claim is backed by his ability to venture out of the Border Marches unchallenged in order to roam the Worlds of Spirit and Flesh.

            Turtle is honored by the People. His animals make their homes in the River, and priests and shamans invoke his name to honor or tame the river-spirits so that their villages thrive. However, he is also called to act as a guide for the dead, so that they may reach the Underworld and make their final descent into its dark waters. Hence, his role is a dualistic one in the pantheon of the gods. Creator and Destroyer. Life and Death.

            Many among the Wise and Uratha have tales on why Turtle is given a wide berth by even the Great Predator. Some say that the two Pangaeans clashed in a great battle not unlike the one between Wolf and Bull. Others suspect that Turtle found some secret of the Marches that gave him an edge against his fellow gods, including Urfarah. Whatever the reason, Turtle wanders freely as a result, and often travels to a world on either end of Pangaea in pursuit of his own agendas. Not only that, but the Wise have discovered the Pangaean also spending much time in the Astral Realm, and even the Ocean Beyond Life.

            In the World of Flesh, the People seldom find themselves graced by Turtle's presence. The Pangaean secludes himself in the oceans of whichever world he is in. And he seldom strays far from the shore in those few times he sets foot on land. This relative isolation may be another reason why Wolf refrains from hunting him.

            Description: Turtle's vast power is equally matched by his size, to the point that he is often mistaken for an island at a distance. Furthermore, the Pangaean will become the basis for the myth of the World Turtle found in future cultures in the lands of China, India, and North America, among others.

            Storytelling Hints: Turtle is revered by other tribes besides the People. Islanders and seafarers feel the Pangaean's influence more strongly in the waters of their homes, and the Wise among their number often seek him out for knowledge and a number of other boons. These Awakened cultivate a relationship with Turtle and other waterborne gods of the Marches that is not always positive, but nowhere near as hostile as that of the land-based Vinca.

            Turtle, Calm and Contemplative
            Type: Pangaean
            Rank: 7
            Influence: Turtles 5, Water 2
            Arcana: Death 5, Spirit 5, Life 2, Matter 2
            Numina: Fate Sense, Omen Trance, Pathfinder, Essence Thief, Drain

            Last edited by Deionscribe; 02-09-2017, 07:46 AM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Blakemikizuki View Post
              Bull is dead. As mentioned at the story hook for the Baal Hadad. It was killed by Father Wolf just wanted to point that out.
              But this is fun thread don't get me wrong.
              I don't read that as he's dead. It says the Baal-hadad were born from fragments of Bull's Horns from he fought with Urfarah, but I dont think that means he's dead (he could be, but not as a fact).


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              • #8
                Yeah the Bull men think that the Mages have stolen stones but the stones they have are the ones gifted to them by Bull before he withdrew.

                That said, it's just a plot hook and you can toss it if you want. Even if you don't and decide that Bull is dead, it just leads to another question, what happens to a dead Pangaean? Wolf seemed unique, his death may have destroyed the entire world as if he were a lynchpin to it. But, from the legends at least, we hear that Rat and Spider broke into shards that continue, to this day, to try and rebirth their progenitor. And a Firstborn has been resurrected through the actions of the Eaters of the Dead.

                What is death to these beings? It doesn't seem to be the final end the way it is for humanity. The whole Pangaean scene and era is just...great. Our game's going time traveling eventually and the Neolithic will be the first stop. It's not werewolf but it's something I wanted to explore anyways.

                That reminds me, people gathered to the horns of the General to wage war against Ant, so the omphalos stones could be used for a special rite that would eventually create the Myrmidon.
                Last edited by nofather; 02-09-2017, 10:38 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LostLight View Post

                  Bird- still around, apparently. Serpent's Tooth (Collection of Horrors 12) seem to describe that she and Snake are still fighting each other over in the US. In my head canon, she is the power behind the creation of the Distant Ones' ritual.

                  Snake- alive, as Serpent's Tooth suggests- but it doesn't mean she has never been killed. In my head canon, either through a pact with Sea, some Underworld power or even through her own power, Snake is able to cheat death- and every time she dies, she swims out of the Underworld while replacing her skin. The Snake Hosts were created during one of the times she died. She actually spends most of her time in the Underworld, with the ophidians I've write as her progeny.
                  ​You'll also note that the Sundered World talks about the two being seen as aspects of the same whole.


                  Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  That reminds me, people gathered to the horns of the General to wage war against Ant, so the omphalos stones could be used for a special rite that would eventually create the Myrmidon.
                  Good idea!


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post

                    ​You'll also note that the Sundered World talks about the two being seen as aspects of the same whole.
                    so a dual faced goddess of life and death which is found in constant, internal struggle? Well, that sounds fun :P


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                    • #11
                      So I wonder, could any of the monsters from the end of Predators be re-fluffed into Pangaeans who turned completely physical?
                      If so, what were they?

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                      • #12
                        We have homebrew for Tha'hon and Nuigim, courtesy of Deionscribe.


                        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                        • #13
                          well, that giant worm (which I've forgot its name) may be the progenitor of the Worm Host from Night Horrors- which has managed to rebuild itself from Shards somehow (or cheated death by any other way- connection between worms and the underworld are not that far fetched). Considering it may also be one of the vampire progenitors (the Nosferatu, most likely) may mean that Worm (or whatever its name is) may be one of the more powerful Pangaeans of its time.. or perhaps it was one of the weakest, becoming powerful only as it grew fat upon Pangaea's rotting corpse.


                          My Homebrew Signature- Because I need one. If you use any of it, please share with me how it went!

                          On a Dragonlance-reading break. Surprise homebrew may still happen :P
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                            We have homebrew for Tha'hon and Nuigim, courtesy of Deionscribe.
                            Thanks for mentioning me Although the Nuigim is not a Pangaean, but rather one of the many other strange creatures that once roamed the Border Marches.

                            Speaking of Pangaeans, I think Zho'ak could also qualify as one as well. Perhaps it was once a god of mists and vapor that wielded the Matter Arcanum in the past? Maybe it even has some control over Death if you want to grant its present day form the ability to animate corpses as undead? Heck, perhaps it was a god whose Omphalos Stone was stolen by the Wise or (somehow) ended up being destroyed at its own hands?

                            Anyway, here's my conversion of him.

                            Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                            well, that giant worm (which I've forgot its name) may be the progenitor of the Worm Host from Night Horrors- which has managed to rebuild itself from Shards somehow (or cheated death by any other way- connection between worms and the underworld are not that far fetched).
                            That would be Zmai. Yet another Horror I will be doing a conversion of soon enough.
                            Last edited by Deionscribe; 02-15-2017, 10:47 AM.


                            "My Homebrew Hub"
                            Age of Azar
                            The Kingdom of Yamatai

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                            • #15
                              An Owl behind the strix?

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