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[2E] Should not Sacred Hunt be inner ability?

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  • [2E] Should not Sacred Hunt be inner ability?

    Siskur-Dah is crucial to 2E games. It's both setting and mechanical center piece of Werewolf. Every Uratha needs to make it and fulfill Hunt, or they start loosing Harmony to Flesh. So I wonder- Why it's not inner ability of Uratha template, but 2 dot Rite? I could also see reasons for making it only 1 for Rite to make every character make one after short trening - but making it 2 dot just don't make sense to me.


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  • #2
    I think I heard this somewhere on the forums before. Something about the invoking the Sacred Hunt is well, sacred. It is a willing and conscious act to honor and fulfill one's heritage as scions of the God of the Hunt,

    I compare it to how even if you are born into a culture or the beliefs of a religion, you aren't really "of" that culture/faith without actively practicing its rituals and customs, no matter how much you claim to identify yourself with that group.


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    • #3
      It's not an innate ability because originally, they didn't need it. In Pangaea all hunts counted as sacred. When it fell, the werewolves had to come up with an artificial method of inducing the conditions in the flesh and shadow.

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      • #4
        Ohhh, that one too. Totally slipped my mind.

        The fall of Pangaea was a big hit on the werewolf race. Once, they were the dominant species. Now, they've been reduced to hiding amongst their prey.


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          Siskur-Dah is crucial to 2E games. It's both setting and mechanical center piece of Werewolf. Every Uratha needs to make it and fulfill Hunt, or they start loosing Harmony to Flesh. So I wonder- Why it's not inner ability of Uratha template, but 2 dot Rite? I could also see reasons for making it only 1 for Rite to make every character make one after short trening - but making it 2 dot just don't make sense to me.
          The Sacred Hunt is a 2-dot Rite and werewolves get 2 free dots of Rites as a base template ability. Doing it this way simply allows for more flexibility, so if your pack already has someone with your Tribe's version of Sacred Hunt, you can use those two dots on Chain Rage or something.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
            The Sacred Hunt is a 2-dot Rite and werewolves get 2 free dots of Rites as a base template ability.
            Hmmm, I missed that - I was totally convinced it was 1 dot of Rites at character creation. Still, Sacred Hunt as 2 dot Rite seems rather costly to it's usability.
            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-12-2017, 03:22 PM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
              I think I heard this somewhere on the forums before. Something about the invoking the Sacred Hunt is well, sacred. It is a willing and conscious act to honor and fulfill one's heritage as scions of the God of the Hunt,

              I compare it to how even if you are born into a culture or the beliefs of a religion, you aren't really "of" that culture/faith without actively practicing its rituals and customs, no matter how much you claim to identify yourself with that group.
              This has been a thing of much contention for certain present parties when the game first came out. And the sacredness of it being re-affirmed as a rite is definitely a thing.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                It's not an innate ability because originally, they didn't need it. In Pangaea all hunts counted as sacred. When it fell, the werewolves had to come up with an artificial method of inducing the conditions in the flesh and shadow.
                This. It's because they don't belong in this world. It's also so they have to invest themselves somewhat in the culture or spirituality, either learning it from a werewolf or a spirit, or see what 'not belonging in the world' leads to. The natural ability left them with Pangaea.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Siskur-Dah is crucial to 2E games. It's both setting and mechanical center piece of Werewolf. Every Uratha needs to make it and fulfill Hunt, or they start loosing Harmony to Flesh. So I wonder- Why it's not inner ability of Uratha template, but 2 dot Rite? I could also see reasons for making it only 1 for Rite to make every character make one after short trening - but making it 2 dot just don't make sense to me.
                  Personally i just give it for free when a character joins a tribe because otherwise it feels like a cheap shot when they got to spent 2XP in a rite that otherwise cant really play without.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LokiRavenSpeak View Post
                    Personally i just give it for free when a character joins a tribe because otherwise it feels like a cheap shot when they got to spent 2XP in a rite that otherwise cant really play without.
                    Again though, you get 2XP worth of Rites for free at character creation. If you chose to spend that 2 free XP on something other than the thing you can't play without, that's you making the conscious choice to play that way.


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                    • #11
                      I understands now why Sacred Hunt is needed to be Rite in first place. I still just thinks making it 2 dot one is rather illogical - it's the first Rite every one Uratha would learn, any time. It's still a Rite, but invoked every time pack goes on Hunt - that is, almost every other day. Making it 'very specialized part of what you are you learn after monthes or even year of traning' ( as 2 dot idicate ) does not mesh with in setting material.
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-12-2017, 05:03 PM.


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                      • #12
                        Not every Uratha would learn it. If you're a part of a pack, it makes more sense for the ritemaster to have it. And it's not invoked almost every day, I don't know where you got that idea, the sacred hunt is a special affair. The only ones who might be invoking it frequently are particularly powerful or religious werewolves, and they would justify learning it themselves.

                        But if you're not interested in having rites, those free dots of rites are best used for Sacred Hunt.
                        Last edited by nofather; 02-12-2017, 04:56 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Nooooo... EVERY Uratha should have Sacred Hunt because it let's them stop Harmony Breaking Points and Essence bleed. If you are just a bit longer without your pack - and not every Uratha have pack, this very moment - they will need to commerce it themselves. I do not see reasons why you would not learn it as every single characters first one Rite.


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                          My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            Nooooo... EVERY Uratha should have Sacred Hunt because it let's them stop Harmony Breaking Points and Essence bleed.
                            If you're part of a pack, and one member has the rite, that's not much of a concern. One member performs the rite for the whole pack every couple months and you're set.

                            If you are just a bit longer without your pack - and not every Uratha have pack, this very moment - they will need to commerce it themselves.
                            This is why it pays to be part of a pack and not a lone wolf. But even if you are a lone wolf, provided you've met another Uratha or dealt with spirits, you can learn this rite on your own and use it on your own. If you don't, that's a risk you choose to pay. If you did automatically learn it, no werewolf would need to be part of werewolf society, there would be no recognizable consequences of the loss of Pangaea, and no one would ever suffer a Breaking Point or Essence bleed from not hunting. There would be no reason to hunt at all and the idea of it being 'sacred' would be thrown out the window.

                            I do not see reasons why you would not learn it as every single characters first one.
                            Because if you're making a pack of werewolves and one person chooses to get Sacred Hunt, no one else has to and they can get whatever they want. There's no point in every member of the pack having it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              I understands now why Sacred Hunt is needed to be Rite in first place. I still just thinks making it 2 dot one is rather illogical - it's the first Rite every one Uratha would learn, any time.
                              I disagree. One use of the Rite covers the whole pack, so each pack only needs one person who knows it (probably the pack's dedicated ritemaster). If you have a multi-tribal pack, you might want one member of each represented Tribe to know it so you can get their specific Tribe benefits, but you don't need every single member to know it. As a new Uratha, you would probably train under an existing pack until you're ready to start your own, and that pack will certainly have at least one ritemaster who can perform the Sacred Hunt, so it doesn't make sense to teach it to you right away. It might be something taught to you as a right of passage, when you're ready to lead your first hunt, and then only if you expressesed interest and/or showed promise in that skill. Someone who was especially skilled with spirits might be taught Bottle Spirit instead, or Totemic Empowerment and Banish. Someone who showed great reverence for their territory might be taught Hunting Ground first. There's no reason every Uratha would need to know Sacred Hunt - the whole point of working in a pack is to combine your strengths and cover each other's weaknesses.

                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              It's still a Rite, but invoked every time pack goes on Hunt - that is, almost every other day.
                              Probably not quite that often, especially since some hunts will last more than a day. But even if you assume you're doing it that often, you still only need one person out of like five to know it.

                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              Making it 'very specialized part of what you are you learn after monthes or even year of traning' ( as 2 dot idicate ) does not mesh with in setting material.
                              In what way does a 2-dot Rite represent a very specialized skill you would learn after months or years of training?? That sounds extremely excessive. Heck, everyone gets 2 dots of Rites for free, which tells me a 2 dot Rite is the kind of training most Uratha are expected to have as a baseline before striking it out on their own. Not to mention you can trade in up to 5 of your Merit dots for Rite dots at character creation, so even 7 dots, while highly specialized, is within the scope of a new Uratha's basic training.
                              Last edited by Charlaquin; 02-12-2017, 05:26 PM.


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