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  • Twilight Spirits

    Hey everyone,

    So I just had a general question, how many spirits do you typically populate the twilight with? I am just wondering, because it seems there is little use for a Spirit to go into Twilight and it is a costly affair to gain what advantage exactly? They can feed from the Resonance in the Shadow, so why even bother going into Twilight?

    I know some Spirits that are attached to items would be in Twilight since that is the only way for that to work, but these are special cases and will not likely be that many.

    Thanks!


    "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

  • #2
    Twilight isn't a place spirits go to. It's the state in which they manifest by default when they go to the physical world. And there are lots of reasons a spirit might want to go to the physical world - there is an abundance and variety of resonance here, less competition from other spirits for that resonance, and few more powerful spirits that want to eat you. You wouldn't cross the Gauntlet just hoping to find a good source of resonance when you get there, but if you sense a good enough source to sustain you, it looks like an extremely appealing option.


    Onyx Path Forum Moderator

    My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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    • #3
      They get to feed more and, with powers, can potentially create a lot of Essence to feast upon.

      Something like a forest spirit might not need to. But imagine something like a spirit of fear created by some hijinx on Halloween. What can it do the next day? The day after that? At some point there's not going to be fear filtering through the Gauntlet, and it will either have to breach over or go dormant.

      I don't really have numbers for it but when I have them en masse it's likely to represent a sort of imbalance in the Hisil. Otherwise they might just do it because they're dominant in the area, showing that no werewolves patrol the area and nothing can really stop the spirits from doing what they want. Helions are probably the most common perpetrators, they sort of march around like armed guards during the daytime.

      Another spirit you'll likely find in Twilight are totems. Because why not. Then there's familiars, demons that are harassing people or urging them to do things.
      Last edited by nofather; 03-22-2017, 04:55 PM.

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      • #4
        If I recall correctly, don't Spirits use the local Gauntlet rating as a penalty to a roll meant to gorge themselves on a source of Resonance? Being in the material world instead of the Hisil means they have an easier time feeding, and Fettering themselves to a person, place, or thing, saves them from Essence bleed because a functional, and active, Manifestation stops the clock on previously active Manifestations (of which Twilight Form is the default). The physical world means a place to hide from other, likely more powerful, spirits that would be inclined to devour their lesser brethren as easy prey, direct access to Resonance, and far fewer predators.

        Not a lot of things in the material world can permanently kill a spirit, whereas in the Shadow they just have to be sufficiently fed upon by a greater spirit, drained and then held in the grasp of a Spirit with a Rank of n+2, or just be beaten down so often that they don't spend much time active.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by nofather View Post
          imagine something like a spirit of fear created by some hijinx on Halloween. What can it do the next day? The day after that? At some point there's not going to be fear filtering through the Gauntlet, and it will either have to breach over or go dormant.
          I am just imagining an evil pumpkin bouncing through twilight causing trash cans to fall over and doors to slam in order to spook people, while 'This is Halloween' plays in the background.

          This is awesome.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the quick responses everyone!

            So, if I am understanding what you are saying correctly, it looks like this is a place for Rank 1 or 2 spirits with a special set of Numina that would allow them to survive in the state of twilight with the possibility of fettering to an object or encountering enough resonance/essence from ongoing events. Kind of like freelance spirits "Essence for Hire" sort of thing. As for the local gauntlet strength, you are correct regarding spirits suffering a penalty based on that so it would work for some low-ranking spirits with a sizable enough resonance or essence pool to push over to get some of that sweet essence.


            "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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            • #7
              I'd imagine Rank 2-3 spirits would be more popular, with occasionally 4. Rank 1 and 5 would be rare, the former because it would be harder to cross over, the latter because when you're that powerful you might not need to cross over. In either case it would be for a reason that should draw attention, there being a Verge possibly or the Rank 5 spirit is running amok.

              Any spirit crossing over is going to have Twilight form automatically. The trickier part is crossing over. Once there, Influence can do most of the work for creating new sources of Essence, and sometimes Numina.
              Last edited by nofather; 03-22-2017, 06:15 PM.

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              • #8
                Hey nofather,

                I gotcha, so a little more powerful than I had originally stated. I guess I am getting 1E confused with 2E because I could have sworn that spirits lost Essence while existing in a state of twilight, but I can't seem to find that in 2E anywhere.


                "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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                • #9
                  They do lose Essence if out of the Hisil, and in the Hisil for that matter, but it's stopped if they are Fettered to something or Manifest.

                  P184, 'Spirits in the material world but outside of a suitable Condition bleed one point of Essence per hour. The Influence and Manifestation Conditions starting on p. 187 state whether they protect from Essence bleed. Spirits that run out of Essence due to bleed suffer a single lethal wound and enter hibernation.'

                  This is also worth keeping in mind, 'Spirits can sense sources of Essence appropriate for their needs from up to a mile away, even across the Gauntlet without penalty. The “Seek” Numen (p. 193) increases this range.'
                  Last edited by nofather; 03-22-2017, 07:46 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Taldorblackfire View Post
                    I gotcha, so a little more powerful than I had originally stated. I guess I am getting 1E confused with 2E because I could have sworn that spirits lost Essence while existing in a state of twilight, but I can't seem to find that in 2E anywhere.
                    Everything loses a point of Essence per day on basic upkeep, upgrading to a point of Essence per hour outside of suitable Conditions in the physical world, and running out of Essence puts everything in hibernation; spirits get pulled back into the Shadow when they begin to hibernate and don't have the same blanket immunity to Essence bleed conveyed by their baseline Condition, which means spirits outside the Shadow need to Manifest to stick around for any length of time. It's on page 184 under the section on Essence.

                    In 1e Essence bleed scaled with Rank, but that's flattened out now.


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                    • #11
                      Ah, thanks both Satchel and nofather, I kept looking under the Gauntlet Breach and Twilight Form, didn't think to look under Essence itself. That is interesting, so the Essence Bleed Mechanic has changed a bit from 1E where I believe unless they were Fettered to an item or Possessed someone they would bleed every hour but now in 2E they can be close to something Resonant and not lose Essence as fast. Thanks for the assistance!


                      "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Taldorblackfire View Post
                        Ah, thanks both Satchel and nofather, I kept looking under the Gauntlet Breach and Twilight Form, didn't think to look under Essence itself. That is interesting, so the Essence Bleed Mechanic has changed a bit from 1E where I believe unless they were Fettered to an item or Possessed someone they would bleed every hour but now in 2E they can be close to something Resonant and not lose Essence as fast. Thanks for the assistance!
                        No, spirits still need to Manifest to avoid bleed; it's ghosts that get to hang out in Twilight at equilibrium without making themselves known thanks to the way Anchor works. Proximity to Resonant Conditions will keep spirits active in the Shadow, but in the material world they have to fight the current to break even.


                        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                        • #13
                          Oh ok, i see what you are saying now. So no real change except the amount lost.


                          "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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                          • #14
                            Also note that, while the Resonant Condition doesn't stop Essence bleed, it does provide a source of Essence, which can buy a spirit a little time to find an appropriate host to Fetter itself to or Claim, or to create the necessary Conditions to Materialize.


                            Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                            My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                            Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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