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My thoughts and some questions on Werewolf the Forsaken second edition

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  • My thoughts and some questions on Werewolf the Forsaken second edition

    I have recently gotten into the Chronicles of Darkness last year by playing a campaign with the core book. I really loved the system, and this was also my first experience with a White Wolf/Onyx Path game.
    Currently I am playing in a Vampire the Requiem campaign, that despite the storyteller removing the covenants (vampire factions) from the game and setting it in a small city with only 14 vampire NPC’s other than our characters (that were each belonging to 1 of 4 groups) and a hunter cell, the campaign has turned into a political intrigue thriller like Game of Thrones.

    So, having that experience I want to run a campaign that deals with a small group of close-nit characters against lone threats. I figured “hey, werewolf sound perfect, since they are just a pack”, but now that I am reading the book it seems heavily skewed towards the political and religious faction way of dong things. To be honest, even more so than vampire.

    Here is my campaign so far. The time period is in the 80’s, the PC’s are in their mid teens, outsiders about to go through their first change. This is during the satanic panic, where everyone thought there were secret cells of satanist integrated into every part of society. The PC’s, being loners, will be under suspicion for a murder. The antagonist will be a spirit of suspicion, and forbidden desires that is influencing murder, and suspicion in the small town.

    So you see my problem. And here is my questions.

    -If I remove the religious/political aspect of the setting what unintended consequences might occur? For example, if I want to give my players access to Auspice, and Shadow Gifts, will this effect the game in a bad way?

    -What rules do you think I should rely on? What rules and setting aspects should I ditch?

    -Am I playing the wrong game for what I am trying to do? I want the players to empowered, but also under scrutiny. I want them to have secrets (such as their first change) I want them to band together because they are cut off from the rest of the town. And I want them to be able to do cool stuff, which is why I didn’t go for regular mortal characters.

    -Finally, what advice would you give me? Even if its just “don’t do this with werewolf”. I’m considering slowly revealing werewolf setting details, but not to the extent the book presents.

    I have recently gotten into the Chronicles of Darkness last year by playing a campaign with the core book. I really loved the system, and this was also my first experience with a White Wolf/Onyx Path game.
    Currently I am playing in a Vampire the Requiem campaign, that despite the storyteller removing the covenants (vampire factions) from the game and setting it in a small city with only 14 vampire NPC’s other than our characters (that were each belonging to 1 of 4 groups) and a hunter cell, the campaign has turned into a political intrigue thriller like Game of Thrones.

    So, having that experience I want to run a campaign that deals with a small group of close-nit characters against lone threats. I figured “hey, werewolf sound perfect, since they are just a pack”, but now that I am reading the book it seems heavily skewed towards the political and religious faction way of dong things. To be honest, even more so than vampire.

    Here is my campaign so far. The time period is in the 80’s, the PC’s are in their mid teens, outsiders about to go through their first change. This is during the satanic panic, where everyone thought there were secret cells of satanist integrated into every part of society. The PC’s, being loners, will be under suspicion for a murder. The antagonist will be a spirit of suspicion, and forbidden desires that is influencing murder, and suspicion in the small town.

    So you see my problem. And here is my questions.

    -If I remove the religious/political aspect of the setting what unintended consequences might occur. For example, if I want to give my players access to Auspice, and Shadow Gifts, will this effect the game in a bad way?

    -What rules do you think I should rely on? What rules and setting aspects should I ditch?

    -Am I playing the wrong game for what I am trying to do? I want the players to empowered, but also under scrutiny. I want them to have secrets (such as their first change) I want them to band together because they are cut off from the rest of the town. And I want them to be able to do cool stuff, which is why I didn’t go for regular mortal characters.

    -Finally, what advice would you give me? Even if its just “don’t do this with werewolf”. I’m considering slowly revealing werewolf setting details, but not to the extent the book presents.
    Last edited by K9ine; 04-08-2017, 01:17 PM.


    Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

  • #2
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    So, having that experience I want to run a campaign that deals with a small group of close-nit characters against lone threats. I figured “hey, werewolf sound perfect, since they are just a pack”, but now that I am reading the book it seems heavily skewed towards the political and religious faction way of dong things. To be honest, even more so than vampire.
    Could you explain this? I think you may have gotten it wrong, politics are a very small thing in Werewolf. You can make it more important by having very powerful and domineering packs controlling beyond their own territory, but that would just be you making it political. And the religious angle sort of stops beyond the Oath of the Moon. 'The Wolf Must Hunt' isn't particularly controlling of what the wolf must hunt, either is their tribe or auspice. The only things that demand a focus are the, optional, lodges, but at that point you're joining a cult.

    Here is my campaign so far. The time period is in the 80’s, the PC’s are in their mid teens, outsiders about to go through their first change. This is during the satanic panic, where everyone thought there were secret cells of satanist integrated into every part of society. The PC’s, being loners, will be under suspicion for a murder. The antagonist will be a spirit of suspicion, and forbidden desires that is influencing murder, and suspicion in the small town.

    So you see my problem.
    I don't? It sounds like the usual kind of werewolf story. Spirits love to harass werewolves.

    -If I remove the religious/political aspect of the setting what unintended consequences might occur? For example, if I want to give my players access to Auspice, and Shadow Gifts, will this effect the game in a bad way?
    If everyone has access to all Auspice you're going to heavily unbalance things. Moon Gifts are very powerful and are limited because of that.

    -What rules do you think I should rely on? What rules and setting aspects should I ditch?
    Like I said, it seems like a standard werewolf story, I don't think you'd need to ditch anything. If it's a small town it might not have a lot of other werewolves.

    -Am I playing the wrong game for what I am trying to do? I want the players to empowered, but also under scrutiny. I want them to have secrets (such as their first change) I want them to band together because they are cut off from the rest of the town. And I want them to be able to do cool stuff, which is why I didn’t go for regular mortal characters.
    That's basically what a pack is. And a standard werewolf problem. This kind of scrutiny is a key point in the werewolf fiction in the core book, as they go about their hunts, which are basically crime sprees, trying to avoid notice and accidentally lead to a beshilu gaining control of police.

    -Finally, what advice would you give me? Even if its just “don’t do this with werewolf”. I’m considering slowly revealing werewolf setting details, but not to the extent the book presents.
    Keep things simple. There's no need to introduce the 'out there' aspects like lodges or protectorates, though as I think about it, the spirit could be the totem of a lodge if you wanted to make the problem a bigger one, in that case the minions mentioned in the next sentence might be werewolves, wolf-blooded or humans. As a small town you might have it not have a lot of werewolf packs, or have werewolf packs in surrounding country to be antagonistic, or even Pure. Also, give the spirit some minions who can do its lesser work, so that it won't put itself in danger whenever it's acting against the wolves.
    Last edited by nofather; 04-08-2017, 02:45 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nofather View Post

      Could you explain this? I think you may have gotten it wrong, politics are a very small thing in Werewolf. You can make it more important by having very powerful and domineering packs controlling beyond their own territory, but that would just be you making it political. And the religious angle sort of stops beyond the Oath of the Moon. 'The Wolf Must Hunt' isn't particularly controlling of what the wolf must hunt, either is their tribe or auspice. The only things that demand a focus are the, optional, lodges, but at that point you're joining a cult.
      By politics I mean organizations. I wanted the PC's to be almost all of the werewolves in the setting. Tribes have to teach them stuff, but if I remove tribes I have to remove a large part of character customization. Also the oath of the moon requires the werewolf PC's to interact with a Lune, or another pack (or tribe) and I wanted to keep factions out of the game. Thats what I meant by politics and religion. The book asumes there is a whole werewolf society thing going on.



      I don't? It sounds like the usual kind of werewolf story. Spirits love to harass werewolves.[/QUOTE]

      That was just me explaining that it didn't seem like the way the book presents, since the PC's don't know any other werewolves. I guess their what the book calls ghost wolves.



      If everyone has access to all Auspice you're going to heavily unbalance things. Moon Gifts are very powerful and are limited because of that.[/QUOTE]

      I think the book said each kind of werewolf only gets one auspice, and then you gain renown to get more facets. But you need access to werewolf groups to take advantage of these things.


      Keep things simple. There's no need to introduce the 'out there' aspects like lodges or protectorates, though as I think about it, the spirit could be the totem of a lodge if you wanted to make the problem a bigger one, in that case the minions mentioned in the next sentence might be werewolves, wolf-blooded or humans. As a small town you might have it not have a lot of werewolf packs, or have werewolf packs in surrounding country to be antagonistic, or even Pure. Also, give the spirit some minions who can do its lesser work, so that it won't put itself in danger whenever it's acting against the wolves.[/QUOTE]

      Like, weaker spirits? I was thinking spirits are sort of alien, so are they social like werewolves?


      Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by K9ine View Post
        By politics I mean organizations. I wanted the PC's to be almost all of the werewolves in the setting. Tribes have to teach them stuff, but if I remove tribes I have to remove a large part of character customization. Also the oath of the moon requires the werewolf PC's to interact with a Lune, or another pack (or tribe) and I wanted to keep factions out of the game. Thats what I meant by politics and religion. The book asumes there is a whole werewolf society thing going on.
        There is, but it doesn't have to be everywhere. You have a small town, there's good enough reason for there to be a small werewolf population. The players can be the only werewolves in the county, and they could have been initiated into tribes by a traveling pack, by some spirits visiting them in dreams. Or you could have them not in tribes yet, in which case they'd be mechanically treated as ghost wolves.

        That isn't politics, though, it's socializing.

        That was just me explaining that it didn't seem like the way the book presents, since the PC's don't know any other werewolves. I guess their what the book calls ghost wolves.
        Yes, they'd be ghost wolves if you don't want to have them recruited into a tribe.

        I think the book said each kind of werewolf only gets one auspice, and then you gain renown to get more facets. But you need access to werewolf groups to take advantage of these things.
        You don't need access to werewolf groups to take advantage of them. Renown is granted by lunes, who are potentially aware of everything that happens at nighttime, and Luna, who might just be aware of everything that werewolves do. A werewolf doesn't need to ever meet another werewolf to get renown.

        Like, weaker spirits? I was thinking spirits are sort of alien, so are they social like werewolves?
        They're social, but not like werewolves. They tend to have a pyramid-like hierarchy with a powerful spirit at the top, and lesser related spirits below it. The lesser spirits would do favors and tithe Essence to the higher one in exchange for not being eaten and other advantages, like being allowed to eat its competition. There are exceptions where one particular spirit will just not abide by socializing and will instead eat everything it can. But like I said your story would probably pay off better with some minion spirits.

        Luna is an extreme example. Taking one of her Influences she's 'The' moon-spirit. And the lunes, being moonlight spirits, are servile to her. But there are rogue lunes and mad lunes and lunes who have become magath by eating other, unrelated spirits. There's five well known types of lune, each associated with an auspice and representing Moonlight and one of the five Renown. But then, below them, there's Glimmerings, which are spirits of moonbeams, not associated with Renown and generally weaker than the Renown-oriented lunes. Like I said, though, Luna is an extreme example as she's a massively powerful spirit. A Rank 3 or 4 spirit of suspicion that seeks to start witch hunts and paranoia would likely have a far smaller retinue of spirits, some too base to even understand orders and just going along for the ride.
        Last edited by nofather; 04-08-2017, 05:26 PM.

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        • #5
          Some thoughts and answers:
          1. Yes, you want to run with Ghost Wolves, non-Tribes werewolves. As each character starts with Auspice after First Change, they will have those powers and basic Renowns connected to them. Auspice will also grant per character one Moon Gift - if you are Irraka you only get No Moon Gift. ( Rules are written so developers can later add next Moon Gifts per Auspice if any 2E supplements will come. ) Moon Gifts can be learned from Lunes, Spirits of Moon Phases - it's how Tribes get those powers in first place. Hell, it's how Uratha still get to learn them. Luna is mother to all werewolves, even those without Tribes.
          2. Not only Tribes teach Gifts and Rites - Totems and other rare allied spirits can also teach 'magic' the werewolves use. Remember, Uratha are half-spirits, so spirits are like 'cousins' to them. Spirit only needs to be of appropriate concept - Rite of Healing can be, for example, learned from Spirit of Medicine, Snake or Bear ( or any other animal/concept you connect to Healing as Storyteller. )
          3. Most important Rite in 2E is Sacred Hunt ( called Siskur-Dah ), as Uratha need to Hunt, or they become unstable and hit by Harmony. But as Hunting is like breathing to Shadow Realm spirit ( they all do this when need to survive, it's why you have Magath in setting ), any allied spirit can teach new werewolves this. They only do not get shiny bonus from Tribes Siskur-Dah, but on basic version, it will suffice.

          To sum up, I do not see any real mechanical or setting problems with running game of truly Ghost Wolves pack, only if there are some spirits in nearby. They will need to get things maybe a harder way than Tribes teach their members, but there is nothing to stop them from learning.
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-08-2017, 05:40 PM.


          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            Some thoughts and answers:
            1. Yes, you want to run with Ghost Wolves, non-Tribes werewolves. As each character starts with Auspice after First Change, they will have those powers and basic Renowns connected to them. Auspice will also grant per character one Moon Gift - if you are Irraka you only get No Moon Gift. ( Rules are written so developers can later add next Moon Gifts per Auspice if any 2E supplements will come. ) Moon Gifts can be learned from Lunes, Spirits of Moon Phases - it's how Tribes get those powers in first place. Hell, it's how Uratha still get to learn them. Luna is mother to all werewolves, even those without Tribes.
            2. Not only Tribes teach Gifts and Rites - Totems and other rare allied spirits can also teach 'magic' the werewolves use. Remember, Uratha are half-spirits, so spirits are like 'cousins' to them. Spirit only needs to be of appropriate concept - Rite of Healing can be, for example, learned from Spirit of Medicine, Snake or Bear ( or any other animal/concept you connect to Healing as Storyteller. )
            3. Most important Rite in 2E is Sacred Hunt ( called Siskur-Dah ), as Uratha need to Hunt, or they become unstable and hit by Harmony. But as Hunting is like breathing to Shadow Realm spirit ( they all do this when need to survive, it's why you have Magath in setting ), any allied spirit can teach new werewolves this. They only do not get shiny bonus from Tribes Siskur-Dah, but on basic version, it will suffice.

            To sum up, I do not see any real mechanical or setting problems with running game of truly Ghost Wolves pack, only if there are some spirits in nearby. They will need to get things maybe a harder way than Tribes teach their members, but there is nothing to stop them from learning.
            Can you tell me a bit more about Lunes? What do they look like? I remember them being bi-polar or something. Do they help the werewolves and give them the oath rules, or do they just give them their auspice and disapear without interacting much with them? Do they give orders?


            Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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            • #7
              I think it needs stressing that while Covenants and Tribes occupy similar game space, they are exceedingly different in terms of what they actually do in-setting.

              A Tribe isn't a faction. It's not a political organization. It's not a religious ideology. It is spiritual in nature, but everything in Werewolf is spiritual in nature because animism is a deeply ingrained part of the setting. Tribes are more like specialty groups within larger professions. If all werewolves in this analogy are scientists, than the Tribes are things like biologists, chemists, physicists, etc. There's a lot of cross training and work to be done together, across those lines, but each field's specialists are united in a deep understanding of that thing (in Werewolf, this is what the Tribe specializes in hunting). There are chemists that are parts of large global organizations, and their are ones that work in a small lab that never interact with big chemist organizations beyond getting their degree back in college. Members of the Tribes are the same way. Some of them are going to rarely if ever interact with the rest of their Tribe after Initiative, and others are going to want to be part of a larger collection of like minded individuals. Letting your players play members of the Tribes isn't going to force the Tribes as larger organizations into the game at all.

              A far better argument for going Ghost Wolves with this is actually your intended plot. Because one of the most felt impacts of the Tribes mechanically is their expanded Sacred Hunt bonuses, if your game is very focused on a spirit antagonist, the Bone Shadows are going to dominate the hunting of this enemy. Ensuring that it doesn't feel like you're making the Bone Shadows that stars and everyone else is supporting them isn't impossible, but it takes a lot more work (either expanding the antagonists so that the big bad final boss spirit has a lot of allies/servants/etc. in the other Tribal specialties, or just working on the balancing act carefully). Just going with Ghost Wolves avoids this issue completely, though it increases the difficult of the scenario a bit as well.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                Can you tell me a bit more about Lunes?
                WtF Supplement book Predators have whole section on them. I advise to get it, as also example other kinds of spirits make running Werewolf easier. Year ago we had discussion on forum on more nature of Lunes in this topic.

                Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                What do they look like?
                Once again, from Predators, example more powerfull Lunes.



                Also, Lunes are partially spirits of shapechanging, so they can change they outer forms even with each interaction of the same spirit.

                Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                I remember them being bi-polar or something.
                'Mercurial', changing ( in personalities ) like Moon is changing. One time they help you - other times they can test you, or even betray you, sometimes.

                Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                Do they help the werewolves and give them the oath rules, or do they just give them their auspice and disapear without interacting much with them? Do they give orders.
                Depends on Lune. They can command, advise or test. They can even 'betray' particular werewolf if he thinks he is not worthy of Luna's blessings. Like I said above - mercurial in nature. It's also why Firstborns are much better allies than Lunes for Uratha - Wolf Spirits are much more stable and they have direct business in Uratha worship of their ideas - they do not have many other sources of Essence. Lunes, on the other hand, are 'worshiped' by anyone or anything feeling 'what a magical/butifull night under THIS Moon is'. They are much less dependent on Uratha.
                Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-08-2017, 07:17 PM.


                My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                  I think it needs stressing that while Covenants and Tribes occupy similar game space, they are exceedingly different in terms of what they actually do in-setting.

                  A Tribe isn't a faction. It's not a political organization. It's not a religious ideology. It is spiritual in nature, but everything in Werewolf is spiritual in nature because animism is a deeply ingrained part of the setting. Tribes are more like specialty groups within larger professions. If all werewolves in this analogy are scientists, than the Tribes are things like biologists, chemists, physicists, etc. There's a lot of cross training and work to be done together, across those lines, but each field's specialists are united in a deep understanding of that thing (in Werewolf, this is what the Tribe specializes in hunting). There are chemists that are parts of large global organizations, and their are ones that work in a small lab that never interact with big chemist organizations beyond getting their degree back in college. Members of the Tribes are the same way. Some of them are going to rarely if ever interact with the rest of their Tribe after Initiative, and others are going to want to be part of a larger collection of like minded individuals. Letting your players play members of the Tribes isn't going to force the Tribes as larger organizations into the game at all.

                  A far better argument for going Ghost Wolves with this is actually your intended plot. Because one of the most felt impacts of the Tribes mechanically is their expanded Sacred Hunt bonuses, if your game is very focused on a spirit antagonist, the Bone Shadows are going to dominate the hunting of this enemy. Ensuring that it doesn't feel like you're making the Bone Shadows that stars and everyone else is supporting them isn't impossible, but it takes a lot more work (either expanding the antagonists so that the big bad final boss spirit has a lot of allies/servants/etc. in the other Tribal specialties, or just working on the balancing act carefully). Just going with Ghost Wolves avoids this issue completely, though it increases the difficult of the scenario a bit as well.
                  Hmm, well I don't really want the PC's to have less options. It seems like if they are going from their first change on I'll need to introduce all of the tribes at one point to give them a chance to join one. Maybe I can do a time skip or something.


                  Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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                  • #10
                    Generally character creation is considered to have happened 'a little bit' after the actual First Change. This allows players to set up their backstories and avoids forcing every storyteller to introduce every player to every aspect of every game while the game is running. Similar to how you don't want every superhero movie to be an origin story.

                    The core book has fairly brief descriptions of the tribes.

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                    • #11
                      Three years ago, I ran a ( 1.5 E) game about 'only Pack in town' and still give PCs Tribes. How? For Tribes most important is bond with Firstborns. And those Wolf Gods are known to show up EVERYWHERE on Earth ( if they want too ). So - in very much setting exception - Winter Wolf show to post-First Change cubs and said to them he and his siblings will judge about 'adopting' them . PCs need to impress Firstborn they want ( i. e. Getting aromaterapia Tribal Renown). Simple as that.
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-09-2017, 01:46 AM.


                      My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                      LGBT+ in CoD games

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                      • #12
                        I agree with the other posters on most the WtF elements, so I will focus my input on the 80s Satantic Panic part of the OP, since have done a lot of research on that era for a novel. Since you want the campagin to be a bit political with an Us against the world deal, perhaps going the conspiracy thriller, you can't trust anyone route is best, so I include some interesting connections and
                        1. the panic wasn't JUST the work on Christie fundamentalists, even through they originated the idea and benefited the most from the panic. Part of the reason it the mainstream was due to certain elements of the 2nd feminist movements that promoted the panic for very different reasons than the conservatives did. The 1995 book Satan's Silence is a good source on that aspect of it as is We Believe the Children: A Moral Panic in the 1980s by Richard Beck, which has the advantage of more hindsight, being published in 2015. The 2nd wave feminist involvement is a great way to bring a CIA conspiracy via Gloria Steinem, who did some work for them in the 60s
                        2. Talk shows have a lot to answer for when it comes to the panic, as this Geraldo Rivera special shows. That being said, Gerlado is actually one of the only Talk Hosts of that to admit he did a horrible thing by promoting the panic, Oprah, on the other hand hasn't which is why if I were to run a 80s Satanic Panic chronicle, I would rather have her be the talk host accusing the PCs. Also, Oprah's IRL phobia of chewing gum is just BEGGING a more sadistic PC to use it against her.
                        3. You know that old Turmoil the Toybox book from during the panic? The church that promoted that book the most was called the Eagle's Nest, which also happened to be the name of the headquarters of the Hashshashin, which was in what in the 80s is Iran, which itself was an object of 80s panic and conspiracy. Meaning that you could somehow, money laundering via the tax exmpt church maybe? involve both the order of assassins AND the Iran Contra thing, which itself would connect back to the CIA and the 2nd wave feminists.
                        4. Part of the Chieron Group's history is a reference to the Proctor and Gamble urban legend from the panic. IRL, Amway, the company owned by Education Secretary Betsy Devos's family, is known to have spread the rumors on purpose.


                        Despite the user name I am actually bigender.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The young man in the cafe View Post
                          I agree with the other posters on most the WtF elements, so I will focus my input on the 80s Satantic Panic part of the OP, since have done a lot of research on that era for a novel. Since you want the campagin to be a bit political with an Us against the world deal, perhaps going the conspiracy thriller, you can't trust anyone route is best, so I include some interesting connections and
                          1. the panic wasn't JUST the work on Christie fundamentalists, even through they originated the idea and benefited the most from the panic. Part of the reason it the mainstream was due to certain elements of the 2nd feminist movements that promoted the panic for very different reasons than the conservatives did. The 1995 book Satan's Silence is a good source on that aspect of it as is We Believe the Children: A Moral Panic in the 1980s by Richard Beck, which has the advantage of more hindsight, being published in 2015. The 2nd wave feminist involvement is a great way to bring a CIA conspiracy via Gloria Steinem, who did some work for them in the 60s
                          2. Talk shows have a lot to answer for when it comes to the panic, as this Geraldo Rivera special shows. That being said, Gerlado is actually one of the only Talk Hosts of that to admit he did a horrible thing by promoting the panic, Oprah, on the other hand hasn't which is why if I were to run a 80s Satanic Panic chronicle, I would rather have her be the talk host accusing the PCs. Also, Oprah's IRL phobia of chewing gum is just BEGGING a more sadistic PC to use it against her.
                          3. You know that old Turmoil the Toybox book from during the panic? The church that promoted that book the most was called the Eagle's Nest, which also happened to be the name of the headquarters of the Hashshashin, which was in what in the 80s is Iran, which itself was an object of 80s panic and conspiracy. Meaning that you could somehow, money laundering via the tax exmpt church maybe? involve both the order of assassins AND the Iran Contra thing, which itself would connect back to the CIA and the 2nd wave feminists.
                          4. Part of the Chieron Group's history is a reference to the Proctor and Gamble urban legend from the panic. IRL, Amway, the company owned by Education Secretary Betsy Devos's family, is known to have spread the rumors on purpose.
                          Wow, truth is stranger than fiction. Thanks for the information.


                          Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                            Wow, truth is stranger than fiction. Thanks for the information.
                            It was truly a weird time in american history. Look up the satanic backwards masking thing too. That one is particularly funny because the only real backwards messaages were from artists making fun of the rumors, even weird al got in on the joke, twice

                            That being said, you could have secret messages left by Bale Hounds producers in popular music that only werewolf hearing can pick up


                            Despite the user name I am actually bigender.

                            My Savannah Setting for CofD can be found here

                            My heroes as monster tamers rules for BtP can be found here

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              Three years ago, I ran a ( 1.5 E) game about 'only Pack in town' and still give PCs Tribes. How? For Tribes most important is bond with Firstborns. And those Wolf Gods are known to show up EVERYWHERE on Earth ( if they want too ). So - in very much setting exception - Winter Wolf show to post-First Change cubs and said to them he and his siblings will judge about 'adopting' them . PCs need to impress Firstborn they want ( i. e. Getting aromaterapia Tribal Renown). Simple as that.
                              Note: No, the Firstborn need not show up in person to the end or start of an initiation, their lesser spirit agents can provide the means for said initiation and be the eyes and ears of the wolf gods.

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