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My thoughts and some questions on Werewolf the Forsaken second edition

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Malus View Post
    Note: No, the Firstborn need not show up in person to the end or start of an initiation, their lesser spirit agents can provide the means for said initiation and be the eyes and ears of the wolf gods.
    Well, we talk here about totally Ghost Wolves pack - that probably do not even know what spirits are. So showing one of Firstborns and his immerse powers points 'yeah, you see real Wolf God, so you should listen to him'. Sending messengers can be less sure players believe in Firstborn role as Wolf Gods that werewolves follow - they only see messenger, not proper God before them.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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    • #17
      Originally posted by K9ine View Post
      Hmm, well I don't really want the PC's to have less options. It seems like if they are going from their first change on I'll need to introduce all of the tribes at one point to give them a chance to join one. Maybe I can do a time skip or something.
      I am really late to the party and I'm very new to werewolf, so I might not be much help, but if I had to offer some insight, if it can be called that, it is this:

      What you know of Requiem is more analogous to the Mafia, and then Werewolf is just straight up street gangs.

      The politics of werewolf is a lot more visceral and fast paced. The spirit-politics might hit game-of-thrones stuff but that's only if you are dealing with very smart spirits later into the game--as the others have mentioned, most spirits act on feudalism, but its all about food, so it tends to stay animalistic. If Vampire can hit Game of Thrones kind of politics, then Werewolf is very much more "The Walking Dead", only without survival being always on the line (unless that is what you want). The kind of politics you might expect of the Walking Dead would probably fit more for spirits, though, especially as you maintain their one-track-minds. Spirits have difficulty running on inability to focus on anything that isn't about survival or about their resonance. Fear spirits might be able to feign understanding joy or delight, but only inasmuch as observing and eliciting fear would give them those emotions. Spirits are constantly scrounging for resources and trying to find new ways of becoming more of what they already are--their own natures.

      For werewolves themselves, if you had a big woof-on-woof game, I'd be thinking moooore... Gangs of New York .... maybe. I could be wrong. [[Edit: oh my gosh I hate smilies so much...]]

      But very few spirits are actually good at this, so while the spirit world is rife with spirits, it isn't this constant war-zone like you might see in say, the Underworld.

      So, you can keep your werewolf politics to very simple stuff. Like if a ghost wolf is annoying you on the edge of your territory, or if a new wolf pack tries to move in halfway through the game. If you keep the PC's as the only wolves around, then they probably got their tribal initiations during a road trip before returning home to start establishing their territory and totem. You could start your game's first chapter after everyone got back from such a road trip.

      The rest is just your PC's doing what wolves do and specific PC's getting to lead the hunt-of-the-week against the monster-of-the-week based on your tribe. Stormlord hunting the Claimed, Iron Master going against a drug lord messing with your territory and fostering the resonance that might be making the hisil more dangerous...

      And of course if you have the time and cash, I recommend looking at Bowery Dogs! It is the Dark Era set in the 70s and early 80s, primarily in New York, but if you're not in NYC what is going on in the world can make for interesting things for your woofs to be paying attention to. Tree spirits love to gossip, so while your werewolves can feel isolated, perhaps even alarmingly so, they might catch wind of what the packs around the country are getting up to from whispering tree spirits.

      But yeah, werewolf is more about spectacle and raw emotion. Your religious aspect is probably going to be kept more to ritual and oral traditions your pack are creating themselves--which could involve stuff from drums-and-songs to just getting high on the couch and talking about nothing for a few hours--whatever works for the pack and their totem. It's about them getting into the spirit of what their pack is about (I think). The religious aspects are best developed by the PC's themselves, in this situation, I should think. It doesn't have to even be that deep, just whatever makes the PC really feel like they're stepping into their role in the pack.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post

        I am really late to the party and I'm very new to werewolf, so I might not be much help, but if I had to offer some insight, if it can be called that, it is this:

        What you know of Requiem is more analogous to the Mafia, and then Werewolf is just straight up street gangs.

        The politics of werewolf is a lot more visceral and fast paced. The spirit-politics might hit game-of-thrones stuff but that's only if you are dealing with very smart spirits later into the game--as the others have mentioned, most spirits act on feudalism, but its all about food, so it tends to stay animalistic. If Vampire can hit Game of Thrones kind of politics, then Werewolf is very much more "The Walking Dead", only without survival being always on the line (unless that is what you want). The kind of politics you might expect of the Walking Dead would probably fit more for spirits, though, especially as you maintain their one-track-minds. Spirits have difficulty running on inability to focus on anything that isn't about survival or about their resonance. Fear spirits might be able to feign understanding joy or delight, but only inasmuch as observing and eliciting fear would give them those emotions. Spirits are constantly scrounging for resources and trying to find new ways of becoming more of what they already are--their own natures.

        For werewolves themselves, if you had a big woof-on-woof game, I'd be thinking moooore... Gangs of New York .... maybe. I could be wrong. [[Edit: oh my gosh I hate smilies so much...]]

        But very few spirits are actually good at this, so while the spirit world is rife with spirits, it isn't this constant war-zone like you might see in say, the Underworld.

        So, you can keep your werewolf politics to very simple stuff. Like if a ghost wolf is annoying you on the edge of your territory, or if a new wolf pack tries to move in halfway through the game. If you keep the PC's as the only wolves around, then they probably got their tribal initiations during a road trip before returning home to start establishing their territory and totem. You could start your game's first chapter after everyone got back from such a road trip.

        The rest is just your PC's doing what wolves do and specific PC's getting to lead the hunt-of-the-week against the monster-of-the-week based on your tribe. Stormlord hunting the Claimed, Iron Master going against a drug lord messing with your territory and fostering the resonance that might be making the hisil more dangerous...

        And of course if you have the time and cash, I recommend looking at Bowery Dogs! It is the Dark Era set in the 70s and early 80s, primarily in New York, but if you're not in NYC what is going on in the world can make for interesting things for your woofs to be paying attention to. Tree spirits love to gossip, so while your werewolves can feel isolated, perhaps even alarmingly so, they might catch wind of what the packs around the country are getting up to from whispering tree spirits.

        But yeah, werewolf is more about spectacle and raw emotion. Your religious aspect is probably going to be kept more to ritual and oral traditions your pack are creating themselves--which could involve stuff from drums-and-songs to just getting high on the couch and talking about nothing for a few hours--whatever works for the pack and their totem. It's about them getting into the spirit of what their pack is about (I think). The religious aspects are best developed by the PC's themselves, in this situation, I should think. It doesn't have to even be that deep, just whatever makes the PC really feel like they're stepping into their role in the pack.
        This was actually a really helpful post thank you. The walking dead example helps me, as well as you saying that while the spirits are intellegent they have a one track mind. Gangs are a good example, I just wish the book was a little lighter on the myth/tribal stuff, and more into the shapeshifting monster stuff.


        Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by K9ine View Post
          This was actually a really helpful post thank you. The walking dead example helps me, as well as you saying that while the spirits are intellegent they have a one track mind. Gangs are a good example, I just wish the book was a little lighter on the myth/tribal stuff, and more into the shapeshifting monster stuff.
          It sorta depends on the chapter, but it is also kind of something that can't be helped--your spirit powers ultimately come from very powerful spirits, and a pack without a totem is at a huge disadvantage. It also doesn't help that the game is about spirits and spiritual powers, but I guess nothing is stopping you from having the pack wax to the human side of harmony and not care much about spiritual matters? The thing is werewolves have a lot of heritage and it isn't something they can purely take for granted--what with Lunes existing and stuff.
          But yeah, the book starts pretty heavily on the myth stuff and gets less so later. I might be mistaken but I thought the The Pack book was veeery much more gang oriented, and Bowery Dogs especially is.

          If it helps at all, another one of the werewolf dark era chapters is about vikings, so whatever you think would be the base-level of spiritualism needed to have a buncha werewolf vikings, you could just have that, modernize it, and they slap it on your modern day woofs? I guess?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

            Well, we talk here about totally Ghost Wolves pack - that probably do not even know what spirits are. So showing one of Firstborns and his immerse powers points 'yeah, you see real Wolf God, so you should listen to him'. Sending messengers can be less sure players believe in Firstborn role as Wolf Gods that werewolves follow - they only see messenger, not proper God before them.
            Or cause them to revel against deitified, homongous wolf monsters. Fenris, for instance, as much as the notion would amuse him and meet with his approval, isn't something to be followed on account of "HARDCORE!"

            YMMV tho.

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