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[2E] Spirit-Ridden questions - Urged, Claimed and Spirit-Thieves

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  • #16
    So, in the end, we can assume that Claiming can be ended two ways:
    1. Killing mortal host. Spirit then end in Twilight for... what, few turns before he jumps to Shadow Realm?
    2. Exorcism ( be forcing end of Claimed Conditon on host ), and mortal is still alive. Spirit end the same in Twilight, like in point 1.

    Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post
    I think this implies that killing a Claimed will eject the spirit inside. I am for certain what it is saying is that any rite or magic that ends the claimed condition by force will eject the spirit and leave the subject open. It also kinda sorta sounds like killing a claimed will leave the corpse Open to being Claimed :P although probably by a death spirit instead of a Re-Claiming by the original spirit. Unless the Claimed was already a death spirit? Wouldn't that be something! Someone left a funeral with a death spirit and it urged and controlled them over a few weeks until it could Claim them, and when the Storm Lord brings the Claimed down the Death spirit can Re-Claim the corpse cuz the corpse is still in the proper purview? Ugh, jump scares...!
    It's EXACTLY what I was planning to do as one story seed.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-13-2017, 10:32 PM.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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    • #17
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      So, in the end, we can assume that Claiming can be ended two ways:
      1. Killing mortal host. Spirit then end in Twilight for... what, few turns before he jumps to Shadow Realm?
      2. Exorcism ( be forcing end of Claimed Conditon on host ), and mortal is still alive. Spirit end the same in Twilight, like in point 1.
      Considering the strength of Claimed it would make sense that a bane would be used against them, in which case you have a weapon to use against a spirit. Or if you're capable of performing some sort of Exorcism rite, you might be able to perform a Shadowbind rite, or Bottle Spirit. Or your totem can take care of them, or everyone might be under the Bone Shadow Siskur-Dah Condition. Or any of the other ways to attack spirits in Twilight.

      Escape isn't a guarantee when dealing with a pack of werewolves, even for spirits.
      Last edited by nofather; 04-14-2017, 12:02 AM.

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      • #18
        I look for now from Wolf-Blooded / preFirst Change Uratha as in few hours I will run story for them.

        On Claimed and it's Bane - Spirit's Bane does Aggravated to Spirit, surely, but would it do to the mortal host on Claim? If not, I suspect that Bane like 'shattered mirror' still can do Lethal for mortal host, even if it's more potent to Spirit - damage is still done by mirror piece, ie. glass, yes? So we can stab Spirit to be destroyed ( but can reform ) and leave host, but mortal probably will have full Health of Lethal and dying there - if I get it right.

        Also - What would have Bone Shadow Rahu on fighting Spirits? Beside natural claws damage from Honorary Rank? Some Rites or Gifts on this would be great help for me to run story.
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-14-2017, 04:08 AM.


        My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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        • #19
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          On Claimed and it's Bane - Spirit's Bane does Aggravated to Spirit, surely, but would it do to the mortal host on Claim? If not, I suspect that Bane like 'shattered mirror' still can do Lethal for mortal host, even if it's more potent to Spirit - damage is still done by mirror piece, ie. glass, yes? So we can stab Spirit to be destroyed ( but can reform ) and leave host, but mortal probably will have full Health of Lethal and dying thene - if I get it right.
          It says this in the Claiming Manifestation section, the composite being has the spirit's bane and ban, so it would do Aggravated. It doesn't say this, but presumably this is why a spirit lives when its Claimed host dies. Even taking Aggravated damage, most spirits that will be Claiming are going to have a lot more Corpus than a Claimed would have Health.

          Also - What would have Bone Shadow Rahu on fighting Spirits? Beside natural claws damage from Honorary Rank? Some Rites or Gifts on this would be great help for me to run story.
          Whisper Knife would probably be the obvious one, or a larger variant. An easy one is the bonus from the Siskur-Dah rite.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by nofather View Post
            Even taking Aggravated damage, most spirits that will be Claiming are going to have a lot more Corpus than a Claimed would have Health.
            So what, almost all 'we need to kill this thing' ends with death of mortal host as poor human has less Health than spirits Corpus? Only alternative is exorcism, but then you need to bind physical Claimed in one place and do Rite, so not very effective I must say. That means Storm Lords are mass murders of mortal hosts to Claimed or Urged?


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            • #21
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              So what, almost all 'we need to kill this thing' ends with death of mortal host as poor human has less Health than spirits Corpus? Only alternative is exorcism, but then you need to bind physical Claimed in one place and do Rite, so not very effective I must say. That means Storm Lords are mass murders of mortal hosts to Claimed or Urged?
              If they hunt Claimed to death and kill them instead of exorcising them, they would be more like serial killers of Claimed. Or, you know, monster slayers.

              As noted before, however, even exorcising a spirit doesn't mean you'll be perfectly normal afterwards. The physical changes will revert, but you'll be mentally scarred and likely susceptible to future attempts, if you're a human at least. If you're looking for a situation where the human can be rescued and potentially live a normal life afterward, you're going to want Ridden and Urged.

              There's a section in the beginning of the book that talks about the Storm Lords and why they see Claimed as the greatest threat. Put loosely, it represents a weakness in people. Not just humans, because supernaturals can be Claimed, and animals and objects. One of the example antagonists is a Claimed dog. But it's not something, usually, done in an instant. Normally a soon-to-be-Claimed has some sort of weakness that, rather than try to deal with or get help with, or instead of having someone else notice and help, lingers and grows and lets the spirit in. But they acknowledge that everyone has their weaknesses, that Claiming can happen to anyone and that's why they see them as such a threat. It's why the Storm Lords are always about being tough and iron-willed, why personal strength is one of their greatest virtues.
              Last edited by nofather; 04-14-2017, 05:24 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                So what, almost all 'we need to kill this thing' ends with death of mortal host as poor human has less Health than spirits Corpus? Only alternative is exorcism, but then you need to bind physical Claimed in one place and do Rite, so not very effective I must say. That means Storm Lords are mass murders of mortal hosts to Claimed or Urged?
                Well it is a horror-themed game and werewolves are monsters. The tragedy of the situation that woofs don't have a solution to this (like the exorcism rite doesn't work on claimed--you'd need to find a more powerful one from an ST controlled spirit, or have a mage on your side? Or some cool changeling token that does this but that's a stretch.) From the werewolf's perspective, this is exactly why spirit's shouldn't be messing with the mortal world. Claimed are the height of unnatural. Just imagine the sort of anger the Storm Lord might feel the the Claimed put them in this unwinnable situation. What if it is a family member who is Claimed? But it is now the Storm Lord's sacred duty to take down the prey. How dramatic is that, and sad?

                The only way over that hump is to be mightier, mentally, and be prepared to do what is needed to uphold your spiritual purpose--as nofather said, the storm lords focus on being able to stoically weather anything, but that doesn't mean they have to be perfect at it. The more complexity the better--if you do not like something you could try dumping it, but if something makes you uncomfortable there's also the potential to make something of it. So many great stories make people uncomfortable and are slathered in grey.

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                • #23
                  I could see them trapping the claimed and making an ultimatum - either the spirit voluntarily leaves their host and doesn't take a new one, or the pack will kill the host to force it out, and then hunt it down in the shadow and destroy it.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    I could see them trapping the claimed and making an ultimatum - either the spirit voluntarily leaves their host and doesn't take a new one, or the pack will kill the host to force it out, and then hunt it down in the shadow and destroy it.
                    My players done exactly like that - the second route. With First Changes Death Rage of their new Ithaeur, they attacked Claimed and hit it hard enough to show they CAN kill host. Spirit start to leave when mortal host was dying, and run away to Shadow. New Pack hunted down it and then spread out becuase of painful memories.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                      I could see them trapping the claimed and making an ultimatum - either the spirit voluntarily leaves their host and doesn't take a new one, or the pack will kill the host to force it out, and then hunt it down in the shadow and destroy it.
                      Yeah that's probably their only recourse, but if one of them is a storm lord I'm guessing they are literally Honor bound to take down the prey--cull the weakness of the world and show the hisil that Claiming is not forgiven. I do like that idea though, and it fits the street-gang vibe.

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