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  • [2E fan] Bale Hounds Update

    This is my attempt to update Bale Hounds to 2E rules, in variety of ways. It’s based on ideas from books of Blasphemies and Inferno to 1E. I will try to show all possible ways to use Bale Hounds, but will start with ‘secret Tribe’ option.

    What is Sin?

    In those rules, Sin is interpreted as character Integrity Breaking Point in ways of his Vice – the bigger penalty to the roll, the ‘greater’ Sin is. It's all about transgression of inner moral compass of character and the 'thrill' of breaking those boundaries.

    Hounds of Sins

    Bale Hounds are Uratha that want to dwell deep in to their immorality to find what to be human ‘failing’ their own previous moral compass. By washing in Sins, they remember how to be a human, not only Flesh. Seeding Sins in the world, they refill holes First Change left in them.

    Mechanics: All proper Bale Hounds have Bale Hound Merit that gives them Vice, next to Blood and Bone, they can use to replenish Willpower, just like humans do. They also can harvest much more Willpower and Essence for making other people to dwell in to their Vice. Vice is the same or closely relate to Maeljin they serve.

    New Merit: Bale Hound (••)
    Effect: It’s a Uratha only variant of Vice Ridden Merit ( see Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook, p. 46 ). Beside Blood and Bone, this werewolf has Vice, with all repercussion it’s lead to ( like improving Impression in Social Maneuvering ). Beside normal regaining one Willpower per scene, Uratha can also regain many Willpower and Essence points at once when leading other character to fulfill werewolves Vice while making Breaking Point on targets Integrity. Uratha regain number of Willpower and Essence points equal to penalty number on targets Breaking Point roll. For example, Killing in self-defense has basic penalty of -4 to roll, so Uratha with Bale Hound Merit would regain 4 Willpower and 4 Essence points by making target killing in self-defence while under werewolves Vice.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-19-2017, 06:40 AM.


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  • #2
    Bale Hounds Merits

    Those Merits are special tricks of each Maeljin servants. Each one of them need Bale Hound Merit connected to their patron.

    Belly of Gluttony (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Baalphegor )
    Effect: Servants of Baalphegor are known from their appetites, especially for the Essence – anytime character would be limited to certain number of Essence points he can use any number he has in his private pool. Werewolf can also digest at once any number of Essence he is absorbing.

    Blood of Lust (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Carnala )
    Effect: Carnala is Lady of Lust and her servants gladly go over her obsessions. Bale Hounds connected to her can change so much their inner desires, that even their body subject to them. They can change their Basu-Im effects on each event of it from killing all targets to raping them. Forced intercourse made in Gauru form is still treated as appropriate to create pregnancy for humans and wolves, even if character is not remembering details of his Lust.

    Brain of Greed (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Mammon )
    Effect: Hounds of Mammon have supernatural talent to pull the favors from their extensive web of cults. Once per day he can deny for other character access to Social Merit up to his Primal Urge dots, like third usage of Status Merit.

    Eyes of Envy (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Maastraac )
    Effect: Maastraac always teach his servants to look for weakness on those around them. By spending one Willpower point and taking one instant action, Hound of Envy can see weakness in group or individual he is seeing – even if it’s not obvious one. Most of the time it’s makes werewolf sensing particular Condition on character or their Touchstones.

    Heart of Rage (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Asmodai )
    Effect: By dwelling in depth in the Rage, Hounds of Asmodai can longer their Gauru Form control Kuruth Limit – instead after Stamina + Primal Urge in Gauru she goes into Kuruth, Hound goes there on 2 * (Stamina + Primal Urge ) turs before Death Rage hit them.

    Pelt of Deceit (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Pseulak )
    Effect: Serving Maeljin of Deceit have it’s perks – one of them is that no one knows you are servant to the Lords of Wounds in the first place. Any efforts to point his spiritual corruption suffer her Primal Urge as penalty.

    Soul of Cold (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Beliar )
    Effect: There is saying that Hounds of Sloth do not have heart, that they are stone cold. There is probably something to that, as Hounds of Beliar are much harder to move around Harmony. Werewolf can negate up to penalty -3 on their Harmony Breaking Points, in either to Flesh or Spirit.

    Visage of Pride (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Lamashtu )
    Effect: It is said that Lamashtu bless her servants with visage that makes the drop on the knees and worship those Uratha. When entering a form that inflicts Lunacy, the Character may activate Visage of Pride to inflict the Awestruck Condition on all prey rather than another Lunacy Condition. It work like Glorious Lunacy Facet from page 122 of 2E WtF corebook.

    Voice of Violence (••)
    Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Thurifuge )
    Effect: Thurifuge is said to be most powerful and populous in servants of Maeljin. Legions of Lord of Violence are said to be countless and ever return to destroy their prey. Hound of Thurifuge just need to spend 1 Essence per Rank and some Violence-related spirit will come to him from nearby. He also will have Perfect Impression in all Social Maneuverings with this being. Bale Hound can spend more Essence to summon at once more spirits in one scene, but he is still limited to his per turn Essence limits.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-20-2017, 07:58 AM.


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    • #3
      Rites
      Here are most important Rites for the Bale Hounds, most are translations from 1E Blasphemies book. Only one totally new I added for covering Wound from senses of other Uratha, letting Bale Hounds to prepare their powers and spirit armies in secret. Would someone with Rites writing experience to look over them – maybe BigDamnHero, @Deionscribe and salientmind will look on those?

      Wolf Rite - RITE OF THE SHROUD (••)
      Soulless Wolf must hide connection of his Bale Hounds children to Maeljin, or they would be instantly pointed by rest as Uratha as heretics. This Rite hides those connection so even Tribes Firstborn do not feel particular member as Asah Gadar. That allows the Bale Hounds to possess Maeljin or Maeltinet totems without being revealed as traitors to Luna and Urfarah.
      This rite is only taught to Bale Hounds, in the night they join the cult.
      Symbols: Hisil Wound, Soulless Wolf, Oath, fang
      Sample Rite: This Rite must be performed in Wound and Soulless Wolf must be summoned. Hound-to-be must chant the names of nine people close to him - one for each Maeljin - and swear in First Tongue that he will kill them all before his own death. After speaking each sentence, the werewolf is instructed to reach into Soulless Wolf’s mouth and break a fang free from the spirit’s powerful jaws. After them the Uratha is instructed to swallow them and concentrate on the feel of the spiritual matter dissipating throughout his body. He must shout name of Maeljin he want’s to finally serve. (Resolve + Occult)
      Action: Extended (10 successes; each roll represents 10 minutes)
      Success: Soulless Wolf leaves the Uratha alone in this moment, and the werewolf is free to leave the Wound. The werewolf is now one of the Asah Gadar, free to work against the local Forsaken of his own will and learn the cult’s dark secrets if he is able to find a teacher.

      Wolf Rite - RITE OF THE SIN-EATER (••)
      Soulless Wolf is who takes the sins of the Asah Gadar into himself, ensuring that the werewolves
      are able to control their striving for extremes Harmony. The method by which the Bale Hounds save their own
      control is based on an old Christian custom, adapted and corrupted for the cultists’ own uses.
      This rite is only taught to Bale Hounds.
      Symbols: Hisil Wound, Gathra, Sins, blood
      Sample Rite: This Rite must be performed in Wound, but Soulless Wolf do not need to be summoned. Werewolf recites a litany of her recent sins against Harmony. Then she offers Gathra appropriate to each of the Maeljin: items representing wrath, greed, lust, gluttony, violence. envy, deception, pride and sloth. Then Bale Hound must cut his own flesh and shed blood for nine minutes over the offered items. ( Presence + Expression )
      Cost: Two Essence and two points of lethal damage from blood loss.
      Action: Extended (10 successes; each roll represents 10 minutes)
      Success: Soulless Wolf manifests, representing the Maeljin. Often without a word, the spirit consumes the blood-covered
      Gathra. Bale Hound restores his Harmony to values 3 or 7, whatever is now nearest for werewolf.

      Pack Rite - RITE OF WOUND-SHROUD (••••)
      Soulless Wolf hides not only connections between Bale Hounds and Maeljin – he can also hide whole Wounds from spiritual senses. Rite makes place seen and smell perfectly normal, according to the surrounding Shadow Realm. But when someone stand in proper Wound territory, the illusion fall apart and he sees the place what it’s truly is. Most probably, to late to save his life.
      This rite is only taught to Bale Hounds.
      Symbols: Hisil Wound, Soulless Wolf, shroud, darkness
      Sample Rite: This Rite must be performed in Wound and Soulless Wolf must be summoned. Whole Pack take parts of dark cloth and covers places around Wound, invoking Maeljin names before Soulless Wolf. Rite-master finally make local darkness – like extinguish lamp. (Resolve + Stealth)
      Cost: 1 Essence + 1 point per dot of Locus Merit
      Action: Extended (10 successes; each roll represents 10 minutes)
      Duration: 1 month
      Success: Soulless Wolf leaves the Uratha alone in this moment, and pack members are free to leave the Wound. Anyone outside of Wound terrain will see and feel it as normal part of surrounding Shadow Realm.

      Wolf Rite - RITE OF DEAD LIGHT (••••)
      The Rite of Dead Light allows Asah Gadar to keep Lunes in a semi-sentient, near-death state of constant agony. The spirit is cut off from returning to Luna, and is utterly subservient to the ritemaster that bound it, in the hope that it will be granted release in death. These tortured, bestial Lunes are known as the Iduth-Su, the Flayed Ones.
      This rite is only taught to Bale Hounds.
      Symbols: Hisil Wound, eclipse, Moon, heresy
      Sample Rite: This Rite must be performed in Wound on the eclipse. Bale Hound must establish a “heresy circle” of runes defying the love offered by Mother Moon. Werewolf seek to “flay” the Lunes by inflicting row upon row of claw-carvings that literally peel the Corpus from the spirit’s body. Once the Lune resembles nothing more than a hollow shell of its former self, the Bale Hound offers the creature Gathra of a kind only appropriate only for the Maeljin Incarna , such as Essence drawn from a Wounded locus or the Essence-rich blood of another werewolf. (Strenght + Brawl or Weaponry)
      Cost: 3 Essence
      Action: Extended (5 successes per Rank of Lune; each roll represents 10 minutes); contested by the spirit’s Resistance
      Success: the Lune is dying — dying eternally — but the Rite of Dead Light feeds the spirit just enough Essence
      to maintain its agonized existence forever and binds the Lune to the will of the Bale Hounds. The Iduth-Su instinctively recognizes any of the Asah Gadar, and serves them with blind devotion. The Flayed One is restored to the Traits that it possessed as a true Lune, though its only source of Essence is through a Bale Hound (or, rarely, one of the Maeltinet).
      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-21-2017, 05:34 AM.


      My Hubs - MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks
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      • #4
        Well done.

        This is simple yet well done for a stopgap conversation.


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        • #5

          I admit, I know nothing about the Bale Hounds' original 1e version, so I can't comment on how accurate the translation is, but still...

          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          Bale Hounds Merits

          Those Merits are special tricks of each Maeljin servants. Each one of them need Bale Hound Merit connected to their patron.

          Belly of Gluttony (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Baalphegor )
          Effect: Servants of Baalphegor are known from their appetites, especially for the Essence – anytime character would be limited to certain number of Essence points he can use any number he has in his private pool. Werewolf can also digest at once any number of Essence he is absorbing.
          I'm confused by this one. So the Bale Hound can go over his Essence-per-turn spending capacity? And what does it mean by digesting at once any amount of Essence the werewolf is absorbing?

          Blood of Lust (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Carnala )
          Effect: Carnala is Lady of Lust and her servants gladly go over her obsessions. Bale Hounds connected to her can change so much their inner desires, that even their body subject to them. They can change their Basu-Im effects on each event of it from killing all targets to raping them. Forced intercourse made in Gauru form is still treated as appropriate to create pregnancy for humans and wolves, even if character is not remembering details of his Lust.
          Umm... so why would a character/player spend Experiences on this? This sounds like a good narrative quality of Lust-driven Bae Hounds, but a Merit? How about something related to seduction?

          Brain of Greed (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Mammon )
          Effect: Hounds of Mammon have supernatural talent to pull the favors from their extensive web of cults. Once per day he can deny for other character access to Social Merit up to his Primal Urge dots, like third usage of Status Merit.
          Aww, but no interaction with the Resources Merit?

          Eyes of Envy (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Maastraac )
          Effect: Maastraac always teach his servants to look for weakness on those around them. By spending one Willpower point and taking one instant action, Hound of Envy can see weakness in group or individual he is seeing – even if it’s not obvious one. Most of the time it’s makes werewolf sensing particular Condition on character or their Touchstones.
          Nice ability, but I kinda expected something like the Thief of Fate Merit mortals have, since Envy is about taking things from others.

          Heart of Rage (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Asmodai )
          Effect: By dwelling in depth in the Rage, Hounds of Asmodai can longer their Gauru Form control Kuruth Limit – instead after Stamina + Primal Urge in Gauru she goes into Kuruth, Hound goes there on 2 * (Stamina + Primal Urge ) turs before Death Rage hit them.
          Ironic that disciples of Wrath find it easier to control their Rage.

          Pelt of Deceit (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Pseulak )
          Effect: Serving Maeljin of Deceit have it’s perks – one of them is that no one knows you are servant to the Lords of Wounds in the first place. Any efforts to point his spiritual corruption suffer her Primal Urge as penalty.
          Nice, but doesn't this overlap with the Shroud Rite below that hides your affiliation with the Asah Gadar?

          Soul of Cold (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Beliar )
          Effect: There is saying that Hounds of Sloth do not have heart, that they are stone cold. There is probably something to that, as Hounds of Beliar are much harder to move around Harmony. Werewolf can negate up to penalty -3 on their Harmony Breaking Points, in either to Flesh or Spirit.
          Hmm, I feel this could be a "generic" Bale Hound Merit, rather than a Sloth one. But drawing a blank on potential Sloth Merit myself...

          Visage of Pride (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Lamashtu )
          Effect: It is said that Lamashtu bless her servants with visage that makes the drop on the knees and worship those Uratha. When entering a form that inflicts Lunacy, the Character may activate Visage of Pride to inflict the Awestruck Condition on all prey rather than another Lunacy Condition. It work like Glorious Lunacy Facet from page 122 of 2E WtF corebook.
          A Merit that copies a Facet? Hmm. Would inflicting Awestruck a given amount of times per scene to beholders at will, rather than connecting it to Lunacy, be too much?

          Voice of Violence (••)
          Prerequisites: Bale Hound ( Thurifuge )
          Effect: Thurifuge is said to be most powerful and populous in servants of Maeljin. Legions of Lord of Violence are said to be countless and ever return to destroy their prey. Hound of Thurifuge just need to spend 1 Essence per Rank and some Violence-related spirit will come to him from nearby. He also will have Perfect Impression in all Social Maneuverings with this being. Bale Hound can spend more Essence to summon at once more spirits in one scene, but he is still limited to his per turn Essence limits.
          Oooh, nice. But as with the Sloth one, I feel a "generic" Bale Hound Merit that allows Bale Hounds to summon spirits of their Sin would be nice.



          Other than these minor quips, great work! Any plans in converting Inferno itself?


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            I'm confused by this one. So the Bale Hound can go over his Essence-per-turn spending capacity? And what does it mean by digesting at once any amount of Essence the werewolf is absorbing?
            Seconded.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Umm... so why would a character/player spend Experiences on this? This sounds like a good narrative quality of Lust-driven Bae Hounds, but a Merit? How about something related to seduction?
            What about letting the Hound apply Swooning (or similar, like Wanton) Condition as part of Lunacy? Given all the ways a Werewolf has for inflicting Lunacy, this confers quite a bit of options.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Aww, but no interaction with the Resources Merit?
            Seconded.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Nice ability, but I kinda expected something like the Thief of Fate Merit mortals have, since Envy is about taking things from others.
            Seconded.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Ironic that disciples of Wrath find it easier to control their Rage.
            Seconded. I'd say maybe it should grant the ability to provoke others into rage, but that steps on the Elodoth's toes. Inflict the Bestial Condition, maybe?

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Nice, but doesn't this overlap with the Shroud Rite below that hides your affiliation with the Asah Gadar?
            Seconded.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Hmm, I feel this could be a "generic" Bale Hound Merit, rather than a Sloth one. But drawing a blank on potential Sloth Merit myself...
            Agreed. Sloth powers are usually about ignoring something that would provoke action, or granting the results of an action without effort. I'm just not sure what would fit for a Werewolf.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            A Merit that copies a Facet? Hmm. Would inflicting Awestruck a given amount of times per scene to beholders at will, rather than connecting it to Lunacy, be too much?
            Kinda not impressed when a Facet give the exact same power. What about inflicting Competitive Conditions on those affected by Lunacy (even other Werewolves)?

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Oooh, nice. But as with the Sloth one, I feel a "generic" Bale Hound Merit that allows Bale Hounds to summon spirits of their Sin would be nice.
            Seconded.

            Hmm. I just noticed that inflicting Vampiric Beast Lash Out Conditions were my answers for 3 of them. If you go this route, maybe tie something into Belial's Brood?


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
              What about letting the Hound apply Swooning (or similar, like Wanton) Condition as part of Lunacy? Given all the ways a Werewolf has for inflicting Lunacy, this confers quite a bit of options.
              Good idea.

              It's worth keeping in mind that Bale Hounds are like demons, they do not just do dark deeds themselves, they seek to corrupt others, to get others to do these things.

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              • #8
                First and foremost - all the material here is based on Blasphemies book. Merits are almost direct idea quotes from particular Maeljin Hounds descriptions. I will quote then some of them so you can judge how close I was.

                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                I'm confused by this one. So the Bale Hound can go over his Essence-per-turn spending capacity? And what does it mean by digesting at once any amount of Essence the werewolf is absorbing?
                Situation 1:
                You have normal Forsaken and Hound of Gluttony, both on Primal Urge 2, they want to make quick heal in combat. Forsaken can only spend 2 Essence per turn. Hound can spent all his Essence pool in turn if he likes.

                Situation 2:
                Our Forsaken and Hound are both ( Primal Urge 2 ) on Sacred Hunt. They corner spirit and beating it to get Essence from it. Forsaken get’s only 2 Essence per turn from the Prey, Hound of Gluttony takes all of it at once.


                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                Umm... so why would a character/player spend Experiences on this? This sounds like a good narrative quality of Lust-driven Bae Hounds, but a Merit?
                You can choose not to kill everyone on Death Rage. Imagine you are cornered with with your family, friends or even just Touchstones. You go Kuruth – and then you do not end their life. They will probably be traumatized ( and lose Integrity ) but they will live. This tactical advantage with how Rage manifest is worth 2 dots of Merit for me.

                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                How about something related to seduction?
                I don’t think it’s appropriate. Carnal is not about flirt, seduction or ‘physical love’. She is about extremes of Lust, like rape, bondage ( against will ) and a like. Let me quote the book here:

                Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, page 123’
                However, the lust inspired by Carnala is not simple desire for pleasure. This lust is an ugly emotion, a surge of want so strong and selfish that it overpowers taboos about debasing oneself or another. Werewolves can easily fall prey to this sensation, particularly where forbidden liaisons
                are concerned — a pairing with another Uratha or the desire for human partners who are repelled by the predator’s aura.

                Hounds of Lust must suffer a powerful emotional storm in their minds. While the Maeljin-bond weakens emotions and drains any real capacity to feel much of anything, a conflict arises
                when a Bale Hound finds the emotions he should have being replaced by irrational, fevered obsessions. Carnala’s Influence bleeds through the totem bond with strength unmatched among
                the other Maeljin, and this makes some Asah Gadar sworn to the Maeljin of Lust extremely volatile and obsessive creatures.
                (…)
                The Bale Hound has no control over what triggers his lusts, and finds that the target of his malicious affections changes frequently, often in time with the lunar cycle. One month the Bale Hound is trying to show a stern façade to his pack while he is secretly unable to stop himself from eating the bones of homeless people nearby, while the following month the Bale Hound can’t stop himself from committing homosexual rapes within the city limits.
                (…)
                To inspire lust in others is all too easy for Carnala’s Hounds. Their choice of worship doesn’t make them any more attractive or sexier than those sworn to any other Maeljin Incarna, but naturally Carnala’s Hounds have greater access to allied lust-spirits, sex-spirits, rape-spirits and so.
                (…)
                Simply resisting the urge for depravity is not the point; many of Carnala’s Hounds find that they simply cannot fight their Vice as other Asah Gadar do. When the Forsaken finally catch up to the hideout of these werewolves, the Uratha are likely to find sickening evidence of any number of barbarous crimes all performed simply because the Maeljin-bond poisoned the Bale Hound’s urges
                and drove him on to evermore grotesque indulgences.
                Carnala is not about sudaction – Lady of Lust is about taking other being and treat it as item you can use and destroy. Most basic trick into tempting is maybe ‘you can get girl you want’, but Hound of Carnal will end as at least constant stalker, most probably serial rapist.


                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                Aww, but no interaction with the Resources Merit?
                I meant ANY Social Merit here. But maybe I will highlight more in second draft of those Hounds Merits.

                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                Nice ability, but I kinda expected something like the Thief of Fate Merit mortals have, since Envy is about taking things from others.
                Blasphemies makes Hounds of Envy those ‘weakness spotters’. To quote source book:

                Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, page 118’
                Hounds of Envy are often farsighted when it comes to their aims, and frequently engage in ambitious plots that sabotage many packs at a time. These werewolves are adept at spotting the strengths and weaknesses of any werewolf pack, and usually devote a great deal of time in secret to studying every local pack of Forsaken and Pure, seeking out ways to use their strengths against them and deny the People any advantage they have in order to make them suffer. This is true bitter jealousy, but serves a grand enough purpose where the Maeljin are concerned. The weaker the packs in any given territory, the easier to open Wounds in their hunting grounds and breed spirits of negativity. Some Bale Hounds perform this research openly, telling their packmates that they are studying the rival packs in order so that their own pack can exploit any weaknesses found. Most Hounds simply do their research in private, gathering information, planning to breach weak points, sabotaging strong points and awaiting the time to strike.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Ironic that disciples of Wrath find it easier to control their Rage.
                  To Hounds of Wrath, Rage is sacred. But when making Merit I cannot think how to make it. So I done the closest think they can do – make them much longer to consiens Rage in Gauru Form. It’s one thing to go Death Rage and forget everything what you done then. It’s completely other thing to make conciens decisions who will die under your claws in Gauru.

                  Look from the Blasphemies:
                  Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, page 118’
                  This is true wrath — not a mindless, incoherent rage, but a devoted, targeted anger that knows no depth. Some of these scenarios might involve simple “serial killer” traps in which victims are locked in urban dungeons with the remains of previous victims and given regular beatings by their kidnapper. Other scenarios are more complex, involving the use of friends and family mem-bers (often over the phone) as a means of inciting the victim to utter fury. No man, woman or child likes to be helpless, especially if his or her family is being killed on the other end of a phone line and the person has to listen.
                  Every Uratha can Death Rage. Not every can control his Rage to something tactical.

                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Nice, but doesn't this overlap with the Shroud Rite below that hides your affiliation with the Asah Gadar?
                  Shroud Rite will hide your spiritual marks. Blessing of Deceit is that things works for you to sustain illusion. Papers are happening to show up in your suit. Some random strangers will shown with killer intents in the same place you massacred people. Shroud will only mark you ‘not smell’ as corrupted – Deceit will make sure they will never found you to accuse in the first place. J

                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Hmm, I feel this could be a "generic" Bale Hound Merit, rather than a Sloth one. But drawing a blank on potential Sloth Merit myself...
                  Once again, it’s based on Blasphemies on Hounds of Sloth.

                  Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, page 118’
                  Sloth is not mere laziness. There is nothing to fear about laziness and very little negative spiritual resonance born of such an attitude. When a werewolf is sworn to the Maeljin of Sloth, his disregard for others takes on a savage and cold-hearted clarity. True sloth is the utter lack of care for anyone or anything. No friends deserve to be defended, no lovers deserve to be cared for and no packmate is worth shedding blood for. Everything and everyone is below the Bale Hounds of Beliar. In fact, many even care little for their own lives, especially those fanatical enough to conceive of their own godhood once the Maeljin rise to dominance.

                  (…)

                  A Bale Hound dedicated to Sloth is ruthlessly efficient — not out of fevered dedication, but out of necessity and the desire to expend as little effort as possible. His hunts are savage scenes where all prey is mercilessly killed as fast as possible. Foes areslowed initially by maiming; the Bale Hound hamstrings his prey first, or bites through the ankles in order to reduce the opponent’s chances of escape or fighting back. If possible, the werewolf will take out the prey’s eyes (or other strongest senses) in order to further reduce the resistance he faces. Then, after watching the behavior of the injured prey and assessing the best chance of a kill, the Bale Hound strikes hard and fast — throat, heart, lungs, the location doesn’t matter as long as the strike is a lethal one.
                  Claws rake and fangs gouge, and in a heartbeat it is over. Ironically, many of these Bale Hounds earn respect and admiration from their packmates for their ruthless and fast hunting prowess.
                  Hounds of Sloth are most cold-hearted of all Bale Hounds. Also, Rite of Sin-Eater serves for ‘I’m monstrous werewolf cultists for evil, I need to balance myself’. Sloth works by not caring in the first place – that’s why omission of Harmony penalties.

                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  A Merit that copies a Facet? Hmm. Would inflicting Awestruck a given amount of times per scene to beholders at will, rather than connecting it to Lunacy, be too much?
                  Awestruck seems to work better as ‘attack’ on it’s target, not to ‘talk him over’

                  [QUOTE=’WtF 2E, page 306’]
                  AWESTRUCK (PERSISTENT )
                  Your character sees before her a glorious and terrifying figure, and something in her brain kicks her to kneel and grovel. She suffers a –2 penalty to attack rolls against the source of the Condition. She also suffers a –3 penalty to contested rolls against social actions from the source of the Condition, and a –3 penalty to her Composure and Resolve against actions and powers that the source of the Condition uses on her.
                  Possible Sources: Compulsion from supernatural powers.
                  Resolution: The source of the Condition leaves your character’s presence, or stops inflicting Lunacy.
                  Beat: Your character takes an action that serves the demands of the Condition’s source./QUOTE]

                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Oooh, nice. But as with the Sloth one, I feel a "generic" Bale Hound Merit that allows Bale Hounds to summon spirits of their Sin would be nice.
                  Once again, based on the Hounds of Violance points in Blasphemies book:

                  Originally posted by ’Blasphemies, page 120’
                  But there are advantages to following this most dangerous path.
                  Thurifuge is a powerful totem — perhaps even the most powerful of all the Maeljin, purely because of his primary Influence. Violence is the cause of most of the world’s Wounds splitting open in the Shadow, and the importance of this — the very resonance of this Maeljin’s power — cannot be overstated. While any Maeljin’s Influence can bleed into the spirit wilds, the sheer amount of war and battle that rage across the human and animal worlds means that Wounds fuelled by violence are undisputedly the most common. Of course, it isn’t just war — look at any situation in which humans cluster together. Most urban crimes involve an element of violence, and this resonates across into the Earth’s reflection. The alley where someone was raped, the bar where someone was shot and killed, even the road outside a club where fights break out all the time at the weekends. Every wife-beating, every terrorist strike, every act of war — all feed Thurifuge justas they Wound the Shadow. Even the Influences of the other Maeljin frequently promote actions that feed Thurifuge’s power.

                  The violence performed by the Uratha is no exception. The Forsaken are hardly strangers to their actions creating negative spirits even as they try to maintain the balance in the local Shadow, but, by far, the most frequently encountered spirits created by their own actions are weak violence-spirits feeding from their otherwise noble deeds.
                  The frequency and virulence of Wounds, the number of violence-spirits created in the world, the power constantly fed to the Maeljin totem — all add up into one distinct advantage.
                  These Bale Hounds are never, ever short of allies.
                  On paper, this can be represented by judicious purchase of the Retainers Merit. In the game, Thurifuge’s Hounds can call on any number of (often powerful) spirits that will serve a va-
                  riety of uses. Seeing as how violence-spirits are understandably common in the reflection of the urban cityscape, with the right chiminage — or the right threats — a Bale Hound can amass quite an army of his totem’s Gaffling and Jaggling followers.
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Any plans in converting Inferno itself?
                  Maybe if I got idea how to make Possesed to work with 2E rules, without making 49 power for them, someday…
                  Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-21-2017, 11:06 AM.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    First and foremost - all the material here is based on Blasphemies book. Merits are almost direct idea quotes from particular Maeljin Hounds descriptions. I will quote then some of them so you can judge how close I was.



                    Situation 1:
                    You have normal Forsaken and Hound of Gluttony, both on Primal Urge 2, they want to make quick heal in combat. Forsaken can only spend 2 Essence per turn. Hound can spent all his Essence pool in turn if he likes.

                    Situation 2:
                    Our Forsaken and Hound are both ( Primal Urge 2 ) on Sacred Hunt. They corner spirit and beating it to get Essence from it. Forsaken get’s only 2 Essence per turn from the Prey, Hound of Gluttony takes all of it at once.
                    Ah, so that's what it does. Nice.

                    You can choose not to kill everyone on Death Rage. Imagine you are cornered with with your family, friends or even just Touchstones. You go Kuruth – and then you do not end their life. They will probably be traumatized ( and lose Integrity ) but they will live. This tactical advantage with how Rage manifest is worth 2 dots of Merit for me.
                    Rape is called the murdering of the victim's personality, you know. Are you sure you want to go down this route?

                    I don’t think it’s appropriate. Carnal is not about flirt, seduction or ‘physical love’. She is about extremes of Lust, like rape, bondage ( against will ) and a like. Let me quote the book here:



                    Carnala is not about sudaction – Lady of Lust is about taking other being and treat it as item you can use and destroy. Most basic trick into tempting is maybe ‘you can get girl you want’, but Hound of Carnal will end as at least constant stalker, most probably serial rapist.
                    So how about something that interacts with Forcing Doors? Forcing Doors is described as burning bridges with that person for something you gain from them.

                    I keep suggesting the seduction angle over the rape angle, because 1) the former is already heavily associated with Lust, and 2) the latter can be... troublesome, in more than one ways.


                    I meant ANY Social Merit here. But maybe I will highlight more in second draft of those Hounds Merits.
                    Nice.



                    Blasphemies makes Hounds of Envy those ‘weakness spotters’. To quote source book:

                    Ah, I see. Still, looking at the part you quoted, I suggest something that enhances the Hound's ability to sabotage other's Social Merits. That sounds better as an Envy effect than a Greed effect.


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                    • #11
                      Overall, I see that you're doing fine converting the stuff on an one-on-one basis.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                        Rape is called the murdering of the victim's personality, you know. Are you sure you want to go down this route?
                        1. Devs went that road when writing Blasphemies. Carnala is about suduaction only on level 'look, we can get you hooked in our sex cult and you will get the girl you ever like' - but then ending cultists as serial rapist.

                        2. No offense, but rape victim still lives. When you kill someone you totally end his existance. Rape can be horrible experiance, but it still not ending you.

                        3. We talk here about demon worshiping werewolves, that from other subgroups are mass murderers, sadists and canibals. If you think that Carnala rapiest are too much in this groups, it's say just how we treat murderers to rapiest. And it's all in the eye of beholder...


                        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                        So how about something that interacts with Forcing Doors? Forcing Doors is described as burning bridges with that person for something you gain from them.
                        Okay, let's see how you want to show Carnala worshippers with Forcing Doors. I'm really interested, untill it's power is more than 'she likes you'. Those are monster abilities for monsters worshiping demons. They should be appropiate.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                          1. Devs went that road when writing Blasphemies. Carnala is about suduaction only on level 'look, we can get you hooked in our sex cult and you will get the girl you ever like' - but then ending cultists as serial rapist.
                          Not everything that the developers went with is a gospel, especially in these forums where people flat-out express their dislike of some content to the developers themselves if they can, and often come up with homebrew to amend that in whatever ways they fancy. Just look at what happened with Changing Breeds.

                          And hey, this is a Merit we're talking about, right? As in, something the players spend Experiences to buy. "It turns out that I rape people instead of killing them in my inhuman rage, as a bastardization of our race's urge to Hunt" sounds like a narrative description of a character, rather than a character customization option. By not making this "rapes people when raging" into a Merit and leaving it as something to be described in the story, you actually give more options to the player.

                          2. No offense, but rape victim still lives. When you kill someone you totally end his existance. Rape can be horrible experiance, but it still not ending you.
                          And yet we have people committing suicides, or living in a state that the Broken Condition or even the Thrall Condition emulates.

                          3. We talk here about demon worshiping werewolves, that from other subgroups are mass murderers, sadists and canibals. If you think that Carnala rapiest are too much in this groups, it's say just how we treat murderers to rapiest. And it's all in the eye of beholder...
                          I'm not saying rape is too much for disciples of the Inferno. I'm questioning whether it should be a Merit. The murderers, sadists, and cannibals get to have a nifty Merit in addition to committing their brand of sin. Why do the rapists need a Merit for doing what they're known for? For example, the Hounds of Baalphegor get to buy something that improves their Essence economy, in addition to being monstrous gluttons just be being what they are. Meanwhile, the Hounds of Carnala get rape and... more rape?

                          Okay, let's see how you want to show Carnala worshippers with Forcing Doors. I'm really interested, untill it's power is more than 'she likes you'. Those are monster abilities for monsters worshiping demons. They should be appropiate.
                          Blood of Lust (••)
                          Prerequisites: Bale Hound (Lust)
                          Effect: Followers of the Lady of Lust rarely have the patience to politely court the object of their desire. Sinners of Lust treat others as tools of their satisfaction, and tools don't resist their users. When seducing someone to satisfy his own desires, mostly sexual but sometimes otherwise, the Hound automatically uses Forcing Doors and is unpenalized by his mark's Doors. Also, even if the roll fails, the Hound may continue to use Social Maneuvering against that mark, as long as it's Forcing Doors.
                          Drawback: The Hound can only Force Doors when attempting to seduce someone. Failing this roll counts as a Kuruth trigger.
                          Last edited by 21C Hermit; 04-22-2017, 08:02 PM. Reason: oops, messed up with quotation marks


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                            I'm not saying rape is too much for disciples of the Inferno. I'm questioning whether it should be a Merit. The murderers, sadists, and cannibals get to have a nifty Merit in addition to committing their brand of sin. Why do the rapists need a Merit for doing what they're known for? For example, the Hounds of Baalphegor get to buy something that improves their Essence economy, in addition to being monstrous gluttons just be being what they are. Meanwhile, the Hounds of Carnala get rape and... more rape?
                            Hounds of Gluttony get's Essence economy trick because 'eating humans' is a thing all Uratha do, from time to time. Making Merit obsolete based on cannibalization only, as it's not 'wicked' in use to be proper power for demons cultists. However, cannibalism in mechanics is highly connected with Essence taking, so Hounds of Gluttony, when spending all the Essence in one turn, have much more incentive to repeat cannibalism, just to refill their over used stores of Essence.

                            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                            Blood of Lust (••)
                            Prerequisites: Bale Hound (Lust)
                            Effect: Followers of the Lady of Lust rarely have the patience to politely court the object of their desire. Sinners of Lust treat others as tools of their satisfaction, and tools don't resist their users. When seducing someone to satisfy his own desires, mostly sexual but sometimes otherwise, the Hound automatically uses Forcing Doors and is unpenalized by his mark's Doors. Also, even if the roll fails, the Hound may continue to use Social Maneuvering against that mark, as long as it's Forcing Doors.
                            Drawback: The Hound can only Force Doors when attempting to seduce someone. Failing this roll counts as a Kuruth trigger.
                            And once again we have seducing here that I marked is bar too low. Maybe I'm not seeing here, but were is rape angle? As I say, making cultists of Carnala only 'guys that get cool chicks' cheapens the idea of cult. First seen sex spirit can have enough for you on that.

                            If you want to get with Forcing Doors and Kuruth Trigger and need to take rape from obvious answer - at least makes that they do not do only from sudaction. Carnala is about using others as your own ( very dark ) playthings. They do not want 'no' for any answer - so Kuruth is in each failed Forcing Doors attempts.
                            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-23-2017, 12:30 AM.


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                            • #15
                              You don't have to actually comply with your promises of sexual gratification after the pawn has been doing your bidding to attain them, that still is making them your play-things. And I effusively challenge the notion that every Uratha is a cannibal.

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