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  • Ghost
    started a topic Question about Lodges: The Faithful (xE)

    Question about Lodges: The Faithful (xE)

    How typical do you imagine the pack from the beginning story from Lodges: the Faithful is? For those who don't know, the pack in question is a bunch of know nothings (understandably) who are completely out of their depth and have no where to go in order to fix that problem. All except for one who is just using them for sex and money.

  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    I would only point out that Forsaken by Rome Dark Era posits that in barbarian nations Moon Tribes are spread by familiar lines, so particular human tribe/village can have only one Uratha Tribe. This way, in Canada, Native Americans human tribe each can have only one Tribe they follow.
    Well, specifically what it says is that in 9 CE, no monolithic tribal cultures exist. Things can be very different a thousand plus years later. And even at that time it's possible for other beings to take up different mantles. What Ghost is describing, for instance, is a lodge, and there's plenty of reasons people in the same area, even family, can have different lodges.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-12-2017, 11:13 AM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I would only point out that Forsaken by Rome Dark Era posits that in barbarian nations Moon Tribes are spread by familiar lines, so particular human tribe/village can have only one Uratha Tribe. This way, in Canada, Native Americans human tribe each can have only one Tribe they follow. There is no need for all Moon and Pure Tribes there - just stick with the Tribe working most closely with culture of the human populations.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghost View Post
    The requirement for regular Breaking Points to become a wolf-blood. I personally read the spirit part as "A run-in with the world of the Forsaken" or "A run-in with the world of the spirit". So being around a spirit of say, bowling may turn you wolf-blooded. Yes, that sound really dumb, but that's the quote.
    The only way I think a direct connection would lead to it is through Luna's position as Queen of the Shadow Realm. Through one of them, even a spirit of bowling, she may gain notice.

    But anything's possible. Being used as a sock puppet for some spirit may lead to gaining the Horse Tell. Or a spirit could decide to latch onto your soul and get your the Familiar Tell, or an entire pack to get the Phantom Pack one.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-10-2017, 05:27 PM.

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  • Ghost
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    Which part specifically? The Lunacy thing would be under the Lunacy section. A Dramatic Failure on a Lunacy roll turns you into a Wolf-Blooded. Obliged to point out it's not a controllable thing. I suspect when it means 'the spirit' it's referring to either Luna or some vestige of Father Wolf, like his Firstborn. Before they're a wolf-blooded, you're going to be human, and in the core Chronicles of Darkness book p74, if a character witnesses 'something traumatic, terrifying, or that rattles his understanding of the world,' or 'is the victim of a supernatural attack, whether physical, emotional, or mental,' you get a Breaking Point.
    The requirement for regular Breaking Points to become a wolf-blood. I personally read the spirit part as "A run-in with the world of the Forsaken" or "A run-in with the world of the spirit". So being around a spirit of say, bowling may turn you wolf-blooded. Yes, that sound really dumb, but that's the quote.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghost View Post
    Could you point out the book for that part? I just have the core for 2nd Edition and all it says "On occasion, Luna or Father Wolf adopts a perfectly normal person. A run-in with the world of the Forsaken or the spirit changes a perfectly mundane human being, turning her into a Wolf-Blooded." p 296. I'm probably missing a part though.
    Which part specifically? The Lunacy thing would be under the Lunacy section. A Dramatic Failure on a Lunacy roll turns you into a Wolf-Blooded. Obliged to point out it's not a controllable thing. I suspect when it means 'the spirit' it's referring to either Luna or some vestige of Father Wolf, like his Firstborn. Before they're a wolf-blooded, you're going to be human, and in the core Chronicles of Darkness book p74, if a character witnesses 'something traumatic, terrifying, or that rattles his understanding of the world,' or 'is the victim of a supernatural attack, whether physical, emotional, or mental,' you get a Breaking Point.

    Possible example that I just made up.

    Those weird wolves from up north? Yea, stay away from them. The story as I hear it is that in 1650ish the Canadians got themselves their first werewolf. This little pup named GrĂ¡inne went though the Change in Nova Scotia. Lo and behold she was alone. No other Family for thousands of miles. Just her and the Spirits. Well she starts asking herself the Big Questions, What am I? What should I do? etc. Over time others Changed in that area and she brought them the big package of ready made "answers" that she thought up while being probably the most lonely I can imagine. Probably lost part of her damned mind too, but don't let them hear you say that. Well, her little Catholic/Native mix spread west as the colonization continued leaving them as the biggest "tribe" in the area. Yea their Ghost Wolves but they call it a tribe, crazy stupid bastards. Nowadays, British Columbia is the only real place where you'll find either Forsaken or Pure. Careful around them, they'll try to convert you to the Virgin Mary/Luna with silver crucifixes.
    Yeah that's a thing. I mean, obviously in the setting there were werewolves in Canada before then, they came over with people over the ice bridge long, long ago. But misunderstandings big and small like that happen, as do large groups of Ghost Wolves and you could just as easily decide no werewolves came over until the colonists or, for whatever reason, never Changed at all in the Americas or some other area. There's just a tendency to be taken advantage of since they aren't getting the direction of the Firstborn and most spirits, Claimed and even hosts or stranger things are going to take advantage of it all they can. It's how you get things like the Temple of Apollo lodge, with a bunch of werewolves brainwashed by a weird thing that may not even be a spirit. It can lead to Bale Hounds, too.

    Basically since the Tribal thing is taught, it's not always going to find everyone. But the tribes have people working on that. In the meantime there's other supernaturals trying to take advantage of the naivety and power of freshly changed werewolves, and some werewolves are just going to slip through the cracks either way. There's a bunch of examples of these in the texts. The aforementioned Temple of Apollo from the Pack book, the werewolves of Australia from the before-times and those from the Poland hunting ground in the core book.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-10-2017, 03:06 PM.

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  • Ghost
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    Well, not just from being around spirits. Regular Breaking Points from them. Wolf-Blooded can be from Lunacy but you need a werewolf to inflict that. And of course Luna can do it but doesn't need to be particularly nearby.
    Could you point out the book for that part? I just have the core for 2nd Edition and all it says "On occasion, Luna or Father Wolf adopts a perfectly normal person. A run-in with the world of the Forsaken or the spirit changes a perfectly mundane human being, turning her into a Wolf-Blooded." p 296. I'm probably missing a part though.


    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    They might start a pack or lodge, but you need higher patronship for a tribe. So far the only tribes are patroned by the Firstborn, children of Father Wolf himself. And once that group gets big enough they're going to attract some attention from other werewolves. First contact can go pretty badly if they encounter the Pure.

    And despite the territorialism, there are a lot of werewolves who remain nomadic, traveling while listening to personal totems and lunes or getting dreams from Luna, Rabid Wolf or one of the other Firstborn to find wolf-blooded who are about to change or who changed recently. Others go the old fashioned way through detective work, hunting down bloodlines and strange occurrences.
    Possible example that I just made up.

    Those weird wolves from up north? Yea, stay away from them. The story as I hear it is that in 1650ish the Canadians got themselves their first werewolf. This little pup named GrĂ¡inne went though the Change in Nova Scotia. Lo and behold she was alone. No other Family for thousands of miles. Just her and the Spirits. Well she starts asking herself the Big Questions, What am I? What should I do? etc. Over time others Changed in that area and she brought them the big package of ready made "answers" that she thought up while being probably the most lonely I can imagine. Probably lost part of her damned mind too, but don't let them hear you say that. Well, her little Catholic/Native mix spread west as the colonization continued leaving them as the biggest "tribe" in the area. Yea their Ghost Wolves but they call it a tribe, crazy stupid bastards. Nowadays, British Columbia is the only real place where you'll find either Forsaken or Pure. Careful around them, they'll try to convert you to the Virgin Mary/Luna with silver crucifixes.
    Last edited by Ghost; 05-10-2017, 02:45 PM.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghost View Post
    (Sorry, I've been busy)
    No problem, it happens

    Especially considering that someone could be made into Wolf-blooded just from being around spirits.
    Well, not just from being around spirits. Regular Breaking Points from them. Wolf-Blooded can be from Lunacy but you need a werewolf to inflict that. And of course Luna can do it but doesn't need to be particularly nearby.

    Perhaps starting completely new "tribes" that have nothing to do with the Forsaken, the Pure, Father Wolf, etc. Honestly, that seems like it would be the norm for most local areas.
    They might start a pack or lodge, but you need higher patronship for a tribe. So far the only tribes are patroned by the Firstborn, children of Father Wolf himself. And once that group gets big enough they're going to attract some attention from other werewolves. First contact can go pretty badly if they encounter the Pure.

    And despite the territorialism, there are a lot of werewolves who remain nomadic, traveling while listening to personal totems and lunes or getting dreams from Luna, Rabid Wolf or one of the other Firstborn to find wolf-blooded who are about to change or who changed recently. Others go the old fashioned way through detective work, hunting down bloodlines and strange occurrences.

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  • Ghost
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    Oh gotcha. Yeah that's going to happen regardless. Both sides are always on the look out for potential changes to educate them about what's going to happen, but it happens at random all over the world, some are going to slip under the radar. I think there'd be a lot more Ghost Wolves in second editions, between people deciding not to join up or just never being found.

    That said, and this is back to Bill's habits, I think there'd be more of a normalization. They know what they're about. The fiction bit in the Ghost Wolf section of second edition's core did a good job of depicting it. He wasn't about to join some cult or romp around in a magic world but he was hearing about some serial killer on the news and felt an urge to hunt.
    (Sorry, I've been busy) Especially considering that someone could be made into Wolf-blooded just from being around spirits. Perhaps starting completely new "tribes" that have nothing to do with the Forsaken, the Pure, Father Wolf, etc. Honestly, that seems like it would be the norm for most local areas.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghost View Post
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was curious about their general level of ignorance. Bill and his....habits is rather secondary.

    Thanks for the answer though.
    Oh gotcha. Yeah that's going to happen regardless. Both sides are always on the look out for potential changes to educate them about what's going to happen, but it happens at random all over the world, some are going to slip under the radar. I think there'd be a lot more Ghost Wolves in second editions, between people deciding not to join up or just never being found.

    That said, and this is back to Bill's habits, I think there'd be more of a normalization. They know what they're about. The fiction bit in the Ghost Wolf section of second edition's core did a good job of depicting it. He wasn't about to join some cult or romp around in a magic world but he was hearing about some serial killer on the news and felt an urge to hunt.

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  • Ghost
    replied
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was curious about their general level of ignorance. Bill and his....habits is rather secondary.

    Thanks for the answer though.

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  • nofather
    replied
    I mean, a lot is going to depend on the area.

    In an area where there's not a lot of werewolf presence, or there's a lack of strong and wise werewolf leaders, it might be common. Especially with a pack that eschews its spirit side.

    It also seemed like the 'alpha,' Bill, was taking advantage of the naivety of the others for his own personal whims. But even without that, the perspective character is clearly wanting more. She senses something is wrong with what Bill's doing, even though she doesn't know enough about being a werewolf to explain why. I wouldn't go so far as to say they have no where to go to fix the problem, if anyone was going to make it out, she would. And of course since it seemed like Bill knocked up the other werewolf she should try to make it out fast before the unihar killed them all.

    But if there was a lot of werewolves, look at something like the Rockies, or Chicago, you have packs that even outside of a protectorate see it as their duty to sort of set an example. And in an area like that you would have someone stepping in to slap the shit out of Bill and show him the right way to do things.

    I'd like to say in second edition it would be less common, as there is the instinct and need for a hunt, so there is a more definitive answer to Zee's wondering of what she's supposed to do. But you still have families like Mary's, from Night Horrors, where they're isolated and kept under the thumb of one person who wants it to stay that way. The specific circumstances are probably less likely, but a pack led by a self-interested werewolf taking advantage of naive werewolves is probably common enough, again in less populated areas or places they wouldn't be interfered with.

    Mind there's an entire Forsaken tribe that might see it as their duty to kill werewolves like Bill. And the Pure have advanced to sort of boogeyman status, going from 'just' hating the Forsaken to setting some of the lousier examples of the Forsaken as their sacred prey.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-01-2017, 03:23 PM.

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