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[2E] WtA Tribe as WtF Lodge – Black Spiral Dancers

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  • [2E] WtA Tribe as WtF Lodge – Black Spiral Dancers

    I give you Dancers of Black Spiral! I hope will chill your bones - Bon Appetit, Werewolf fans! [ Group is based of Black Spiral Dancers Tribe write up from W20 corebook and Bale Hounds write-up in Blasphemies WtF book, using my 2E Stopgap for Hounds. ] /Still needs good Ban for them, and I not truly dedicated to Blessing of Lodge./

    Black Spiral Dancers
    ??? <Need help on nicknames>

    They are truly mad – mad even on Bale Hound standards! When rest of Servants of Maeljin are worshiping only one dark patron, Dancers believe every one of Dark Nine needs devotion of equal measure. Each act of wickedness, each new soul corrupted - they all gone into so called Black Spiral, beneath the Dark Nine rest of Hounds worship. This force is constantly behind their eyes, behind their mind. They constantly feel it and it’s stroke are rumbling in their ears. Join to their mad Dance!

    They are like priests in Maeljin cults. Anybody can look for Wounds, contact other cultists, summon dark spirits. No, Black Spiral Dancers are above this - they look for the ‘whole’ and subsume it in Black Spiral. They found virtuous – and bring them to the fold of Maeljin. They sense weakness – and explore them till people are broken and keeling before Lords of Wounds. And it all started with tragedy.

    In 1st century, group of British Picts werewolves, Lodge of White Howl, was dedicated to hunting for ghosts of long lost dead in Underworld, founded trail of Maeljin influences in Great Below. In depths of Underworld and Shadow Realm, they found mysterious portals to realm of Black Spiral Labyrinth. Adored by possibility of regaining human Vices in their new lives, they were corrupted and lead in to dimension lying under Wounds, lead before the chaotic ‘Black Spiral’. Only handful of White Howlers survive madness of Labyrinth – and when they returned, they slaughtered rest of the cult. Lodge members started their own version of Siskur-Dah, called ‘Black Spiral Dance’, changing name for whole unholy group.

    Totem: Mad Nightjar
    Nightjar was original Totem of White Howlers – he was bird that sang to the dead they looked for, starting their famous Howl. When Lodges become corrupted, Totem was brought pass the edges of madness, in practices similar to Flayed Lunes, created by other Bale Hounds. Now Mad Nightjar is terrifying spirits of song bringing people to madness, incanting dark howls of ‘Black Spiral’, that is rambling in all adherents heads and hearts.
    Influances: Vices ( as Maeljins ) 4, Dead 3

    Bonds
    Blessing: Mad thoughts patterns make Black Spiral Dancers resistant to mental influences - Any time a supernatural creature uses a power to influence adherents thoughts or emotions, add two dice to the dice pool to contest it. If the roll is resisted, instead subtract two dice from the other side’s dice pool. Adherent is also give Bale Hound Merit for free if he did not have and is treated as being follower of any possible Maeljin for access on characters powers or Merits.

    Aspiration: To create new Wounds and Maeljin servants.

    Ban: Adherent need at least once in lunar month ‘Dance Black Spiral’ – call and resolve victorious Lodge’s Siskur-Dah variant. ( see below ).

    The Sacred Hunt
    The Lodge’s Siskur- Dah rite - called ‘Dance of Black Spiral’ - let adherent to sense anyone having now Breaking Point ( Integrity or Harmony ) in their range of senses. Dancer simply feels the pull of Black Spiral over the target he see ( or hears ). To fulfill the Hunt, adherent need to push his target into coming act of Vice that will break his Integrity or equivalent.

    Tools
    The Lodge of Black Spiral Dancers has access to the Lodge Armory, Lodge Sorcery and Lodge Stronghold ( Labirynth ) Merit.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-23-2018, 11:41 PM.


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  • #2
    What are the Dancers' concept, or narrative niche so to speak, in the Chronicles of Darkness? What purpose they fill that regular (for a given value of "regular") Bale Hounds can't? Defining this first will help designing the rest of the crunch.

    I heard that the BSD are an apocalypse cult who believe that all their acts of corruption, defilment, and debasement will hasten the World's End and allow the Destroyer to basically reset the universe... or so do the more talkable members of the cult claim. They're the ones who do most of the recruiting and brainwashing, so their credibility is heavily suspect, but still.

    EDIT: Oh, and how do their worship of (insert Big Nasty here) interpreted in the lens of the Hunt? That's what really separates standard cults from Lodges.

    EDIT: Oh, oh, and take a look at this, a homebrew Mystery Cult that follows what appears to be the Wyrm.
    Last edited by 21C Hermit; 05-08-2017, 10:38 AM.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      What are the Dancers' concept, or narrative niche so to speak, in the Chronicles of Darkness? What purpose they fill that regular (for a given value of "regular") Bale Hounds can't? Defining this first will help designing the rest of the crunch.
      They are 'mad prophets' of Bale Hounds. They are those that get dreams of vision sent by Maeljin, find those places that need to be Wounds and do their mad 'Black Spiral Dance' to spread their Maeljin influnace - many times, by converting next Uratha to the cult.

      Typical Bale Hound can be fixated on his Vice spreading. BSD are about leading army of fanatics and winning 'the war' with rest of their kind. All in the musical 'dance' metaphor.

      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      I heard that the BSD are an apocalypse cult who believe that all their acts of corruption, defilment, and debasement will hasten the World's End and allow the Destroyer to basically reset the universe... or so do the more talkable members of the cult claim. They're the ones who do most of the recruiting and brainwashing, so their credibility is heavily suspect, but still.
      It's also goal of ALL of Bale Hounds in Forsaken. Just read Blasphemies - Bale Hounds want to end world in one big Wound with their particular patron winning contest of 'most powerful being at the end'. Bale Hounds are more or less the same nihilistic and brainwashed as BSD from Apocalypse were. Just BSD were much more straight forward.

      If Bale Hounds are sleeping terrorist cells inside Western countries, Black Spiral Dancers are ISIS in the Middle East.

      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      EDIT: Oh, and how do their worship of (insert Big Nasty here) interpreted in the lens of the Hunt? That's what really separates standard cults from Lodges.
      They Hunt for new Wounds and looking for new cultist they can 'connect' to great Black Spiral. They are Bale Hounds fanatics, making pushes on Hounds to strive for more action in cults.

      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      EDIT: Oh, oh, and take a look at this, a homebrew Mystery Cult that follows what appears to be the Wyrm.
      I want to miss the Wyrm as such from write-up, like we did not use Wyld and Weaver. I do not think we need to include those elements to the group for make it work inside WtF setting.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        It's also goal of ALL of Bale Hounds in Forsaken. Just read Blasphemies - Bale Hounds want to end world in one big Wound with their particular patron winning contest of 'most powerful being at the end'. Bale Hounds are more or less the same nihilistic and brainwashed as BSD from Apocalypse were. Just BSD were much more straight forward.
        Having the world inundated by one sin or another is not the same as destroying it so that there is no humanity to sin. These are diametrically opposed goals.

        The Maeljin need life, for the most part. The Wyrm works on a far higher level and needs nothing.
        Last edited by nofather; 05-08-2017, 05:16 PM.

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        • #5
          Seconding nofather here. The original BSD and the Wyrm they serve are much closer to the Abyss from Mage rather than the Inferno.

          Fortunately, you don't seem to be interested in a direct conversion, so that might not be a big issue.

          Okay, so we have Bale Hounds as a secret Tribe of sorts, with the BSD as their Pillar Lodge? Hmm... Thinking about it, I'm not sure about making their Siskur-Dah effect be centere on finding Wounds and Maeltinet, based on how the Bone Shadows and the Fire-Touched approach the Shadow respectively. The latter are the ones who worship the Shadow, and they aren't the ones getting the "sense spirits" power.

          Maybe their Sacred Prey is something like "the corruption of the undefiled," with their Hunts taking on equally abstract forms by being about corrupting/seducing/brainwashing new humans and Uratha into the Maeljin cults. Then the Siskur-Dah effect would be the ability to sense Integrity and Harmony ratings, along with abilities to aggravate the prey's Vices so that the prey commits more and more atrocities until they join the Dark Side.

          Lodge Benefit sounds fine. Although I considered gaining Influences over the classic Vices (including Violence and Deception), the Hounds and the Dancers should be able to procure fetishes and totems to that end.

          Aspiration sounds fine, but I feel that either one among the Aspiration and the Ban should involve the Black Spiral itself somewhere. Maybe leave the Aspiration as it is, with the Ban being something like "dance again in the Black Spiral every lunar month" so that every BSD remain drunk on evil?


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          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Seconding nofather here. The original BSD and the Wyrm they serve are much closer to the Abyss from Mage rather than the Inferno.

            Fortunately, you don't seem to be interested in a direct conversion, so that might not be a big issue.
            Yes, I'm not interested in direct conversion - for me WtF cosmology and setting has proceeding.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Okay, so we have Bale Hounds as a secret Tribe of sorts, with the BSD as their Pillar Lodge?
            Yes, in simple terms, it's exactly what i have in mind.

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Maybe their Sacred Prey is something like "the corruption of the undefiled," with their Hunts taking on equally abstract forms by being about corrupting/seducing/brainwashing new humans and Uratha into the Maeljin cults. Then the Siskur-Dah effect would be the ability to sense Integrity and Harmony ratings, along with abilities to aggravate the prey's Vices so that the prey commits more and more atrocities until they join the Dark Side.
            But how this would work in game terms? Hunting Maeltinets and Wounds is straight forward - you simply find what you looked. But if you sense 'people need to be corrupted', it then highlights whole town ( minus few individuals with lower Integrity that is already 'corrupted' ). Maybe Dancers scenes people or werewolves in moment of their Breaking Points for Integrity or Harmony, connected or not to Vice? Seeking persons in moments of their 'weakness'?


            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Lodge Benefit sounds fine. Although I considered gaining Influences over the classic Vices (including Violence and Deception), the Hounds and the Dancers should be able to procure fetishes and totems to that end.
            I was thinking about granting Influences to Vices, but would not be this much more powerfull than other Lodges?

            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            Aspiration sounds fine, but I feel that either one among the Aspiration and the Ban should involve the Black Spiral itself somewhere. Maybe leave the Aspiration as it is, with the Ban being something like "dance again in the Black Spiral every lunar month" so that every BSD remain drunk on evil?
            If Black Spiral is about 'drowning people down' their Integrity, maybe they need to make at least one successful Dance every lunar month - i.e. make one person to go down their Integrity based on their Vice?
            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-09-2017, 02:48 AM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

              But how this would work in game terms? Hunting Maeltinets and Wounds is straight forward - you simply find what you looked. But if you sense 'people need to be corrupted', it then highlights whole town ( minus few individuals with lower Integrity that is already 'corrupted' ). Maybe Dancers scenes people or werewolves in moment of their Breaking Points for Integrity or Harmony, connected or not to Vice? Seeking persons in moments of their 'weakness'?
              The Siskur-Dah effect doesn't always have to be the ability to directly sense your Sacred Prey. Especially for the BSD, since by their definition the "undefiled" are pretty much everyone else except fellow Bale Hounds. Kinda similar to how the Iron Masters' SD effect gives you the ability to screw with humans rather than sense humans, the BSDs' SD effect would give the Dancer the ability to screw with the undefiled.

              One that's crossing my mind is the ability to grant one of the nine Vices on a prey, and slapping some Condition on them to make them sate that Vice in breaking point-worthy ways.


              I was thinking about granting Influences to Vices, but would not be this much more powerfull than other Lodges?
              Dunno about that.

              Maybe the Benefit can be something like the Spiral-born madness granting both immunity to mental influences, and bonus to interacting with Wound-corrupted spirits and entities? I think Uratha in Death Rage add twice their Primal Urge to resist against mental control powers, right?. Maybe the "immunity" is this instead, signifying that the BSD's standard state of mind is eerily close to that of Death Rage.


              If Black Spiral is about 'drowning people down' their Integrity, maybe they need to make at least one successful Dance every lunar month - i.e. make one person to go down their Integrity based on their Vice?
              I thought literally Dancing the Black Spiral was the Lodge initiation, not the average corruption?


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              • #8
                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                I thought literally Dancing the Black Spiral was the Lodge initiation, not the average corruption?
                I was thinking for Dancing the Black Spiral would more like 'phenomenon' sourdining adherents. Something akin to Drums for the Master from Doctor Who.



                Black Spiral is always calling Dancers, trying to pull everyone around 'down'. Acting on this impulse would be proverbial 'Dancing'.

                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                The Siskur-Dah effect doesn't always have to be the ability to directly sense your Sacred Prey. Especially for the BSD, since by their definition the "undefiled" are pretty much everyone else except fellow Bale Hounds. Kinda similar to how the Iron Masters' SD effect gives you the ability to screw with humans rather than sense humans, the BSDs' SD effect would give the Dancer the ability to screw with the undefiled.
                But with 'unndefiled' is (almost) everyone around you, it sounds as too broad Sacred Hunt. I think that idea of looking for people in moment of Breaking Point and trying to exploit them makes it much more Prey model.

                Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                One that's crossing my mind is the ability to grant one of the nine Vices on a prey, and slapping some Condition on them to make them sate that Vice in breaking point-worthy ways.
                It's already basis of Bale Hounds mechanics with basic Bale Hound Merit - you are rewarded for making humans commit your Vice.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  But with 'unndefiled' is (almost) everyone around you, it sounds as too broad Sacred Hunt. I think that idea of looking for people in moment of Breaking Point and trying to exploit them makes it much more Prey model.
                  Oh right, forgot this is a Lodge and not a Tribe. What was your Bale Hounds' Sacred Prey again? The BSD should be a narrowing of that.


                  It's already basis of Bale Hounds mechanics with basic Bale Hound Merit - you are rewarded for making humans commit your Vice.
                  And with the BSD Lodge you have up here, I'm of the opinion that that power fits the Lodge better rather than something all members of a Tribe get.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                    Oh right, forgot this is a Lodge and not a Tribe. What was your Bale Hounds' Sacred Prey again? The BSD should be a narrowing of that.
                    I written general Bale Hounds as working for any model - from Secret Tribe to Dark Pantheon - so I did not choose Sacred Prey. But I think it would be 'Vice', in general sense - places and actions that promote Vice. So the Black Spiral Dancers can have people weakened by Breaking Point as Sacred Prey, then, to ease their job in spreading more profound Vice.


                    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                    And with the BSD Lodge you have up here, I'm of the opinion that that power fits the Lodge better rather than something all members of a Tribe get.
                    It's basic idea of any Bale Hound ever - according to Blasphemies - so it's stays with Bale Hound at mass. BSD members can just have it for free, upon joining, not needing to buy it. And open to any Vice of Dark Nine - other Hounds need to specialize in one Vice only.


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                    • #11
                      Then the Dancers should hunt Virtue; and shift the premise on it's head: it's far easier to corrupt those already tainted than deposing the truly virtuous. If I can tell someone has Integrity 3 or Harmony 9; those are the easiest targets to bring into the cult.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Malus View Post
                        Then the Dancers should hunt Virtue; and shift the premise on it's head: it's far easier to corrupt those already tainted than deposing the truly virtuous. If I can tell someone has Integrity 3 or Harmony 9; those are the easiest targets to bring into the cult.
                        If Bale Hounds are 'Hunting' Vice - by seeding it and leading others to it - then Tribal Pillar of Hounds should do the same, only more specialized. Looking for people in moments of weakness ( i.e. Breaking Point ) sounds exactly like this.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-09-2017, 12:30 PM.


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                        • #13
                          This is more of a setting thing, but there's no whippoorwills in Europe. Nightjars are a relation that would fit for a substitute. Hard to tell why it happened to the first dancers, their spirit stuff goes cosmic pretty early into it, though it seems like a horror story reference.

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                          • #14
                            Second version of Black Spiral Dancers write-up, taking your comments in consideration. Hopes it works much better as Lodge.


                            Black Spiral Dancers
                            ??? <Need help on nicknames>

                            They are truly mad – mad even on Bale Hound standards! When rest of Servants of Maeljin are worshiping only one dark patron, Dancers believe every one of Dark Nine needs devotion of equal measure. Each act of wickedness, each new soul corrupted - they all gone into so called Black Spiral, beneath the Dark Nine rest of Hounds worship. This force is constantly behind their eyes, behind their mind. They constantly feel it and it’s stroke are rumbling in their ears. Join to their mad Dance!

                            They are like priests in Maeljin cults. Anybody can look for Wounds, contact other cultists, summon dark spirits. No, Black Spiral Dancers are above this - they look for the ‘whole’ and subsume it in Black Spiral. They found virtuous – and bring them to the fold of Maeljin. They sense weakness – and explore them till people are broken and keeling before Lords of Wounds. And it all started with tragedy.

                            In 1st century, group of British Picts werewolves, Lodge of White Howl, was dedicated to hunting for ghosts of long lost dead in Underworld, founded trail of Maeljin influences in Great Below. In depths of Underworld and Shadow Realm, they found mysterious portals to realm of Black Spiral Labyrinth. Adored by possibility of regaining human Vices in their new lives, they were corrupted and lead in to dimension lying under Wounds, lead before the chaotic ‘Black Spiral’. Only handful of White Howlers survive madness of Labyrinth – and when they returned, they slaughtered rest of the cult. Lodge members started their own version of Siskur-Dah, called ‘Black Spiral Dance’, changing name for whole unholy group.

                            Totem: Mad Nightjar
                            Nightjar was original Totem of White Howlers – he was bird that sang to the dead they looked for, starting their famous Howl. When Lodges become corrupted, Totem was brought pass the edges of madness, in practices similar to Flayed Lunes, created by other Bale Hounds. Now Mad Nightjar is terrifying spirits of song bringing people to madness, incanting dark howls of ‘Black Spiral’, that is rambling in all adherents heads and hearts.
                            Influances: Vices ( as Maeljins ) 4, Dead 3

                            Bonds
                            Blessing: Mad thoughts patterns make Black Spiral Dancers resistant to mental influences - Any time a supernatural creature uses a power to influence adherents thoughts or emotions, add two dice to the dice pool to contest it. If the roll is resisted, instead subtract two dice from the other side’s dice pool. Adherent is also give Bale Hound Merit for free if he did not have and is treated as being follower of any possible Maeljin for access on characters powers or Merits.

                            Aspiration: To create new Wounds and Maeljin servants.

                            Ban: Adherent need at least once in lunar month ‘Dance Black Spiral’ – call and resolve victorious Lodge’s Siskur-Dah variant. ( see below ).

                            The Sacred Hunt
                            The Lodge’s Siskur- Dah rite - called ‘Dance of Black Spiral’ - let adherent to sense anyone having now Breaking Point ( Integrity or Harmony ) in their range of senses. Dancer simply feels the pull of Black Spiral over the target he see ( or hears ). To fulfill the Hunt, adherent need to push his target into coming act of Vice that will break his Integrity or equivalent.

                            Tools
                            The Lodge of Black Spiral Dancers has access to the Lodge Armory, Lodge Sorcery and Lodge Stronghold ( Labirynth ) Merit.
                            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-10-2017, 07:18 AM.


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