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Valid Targets for Siskur-Dah

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  • Valid Targets for Siskur-Dah

    Greetings,

    I know this has been probably asked to death but I'm new to the game and this came up in our last session. I wanted to gather some opinions.

    I have a Blood Talon that wants to call Siskur-Dah on "gathering information / gauging the strength" of a neighboring Uratha pack. Basically, calling a hunt to go sniff around, maybe get a glimpse at their Renown (via the Blood Talon benefit) and then the hunt is complete, in his eyes. What's the consensus on this? I've seen mention that hunts on concepts or other abstract things (changing city laws) are acceptable. Do most people take this approach or do you try to keep Hunts focuses on taking something down / changing status quo in some way.

    Or should you call the hunt on the other Pack, naming them as the prey? I guess you could break off the hunt when you've gathered your information but that doesn't seem as fun to me, especially in regards to the Predator / Prey theme that runs throughout the game.

    So really, I would love to know how people handle the following in their games:
    • What kinds of targets or prey, do you allow when your players use Siskur-Dah? Only things that can be killed? Vague Concepts? What about a rescue mission?
    • Do you make the ritemaster specify their intention of how the hunt will end? i.e. "We are going to scout / threaten / maim / kill Target X."
    Any thoughts on my ramblings above are appreciated

  • #2
    Breaking Siskur-Dah before the hunt is over is extremely disgraceful for the Forsaken. In my mind, it would even make purchasing Renown quite hard for a while.

    As for targets of Siskur-Dah, my rule is that, although you can name something not concrete, such as Pain, those types of hunts should be very rare as there is a lot of room to fail Siskur-Dah, something no Urdraga takes lightly. Another rule is that it has to feel like a hunt, which means the prey at the end has to die even if it is on a metaphorical level. Gathering Information as a target, which means making it the prey, doesn't fit for me because nothing dies at the end.

    My last point is that the rite of Siskur-Dah is the most sacred rite for the Forsaken, not just something you do to get a bonus. It should rub any Urdraga with high Purity and/or Honor the wrong way to see another use it for something as mundane as gathering information. Siskur-Dah should be called when something is part of fulfilling their duty to Father Wold and Luna or preventing the werewolves from doing it, or when it reinforces their bond with their Primal Urge, such as calling Siskur-Dah on a spirit to gain Essence without completely destroying it or gaining a Gift.

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    • #3
      I allow hunts against abstract things, but you have to be able to name what the prey is, and successful completion of the hunt has to involve somehow taking down or capturing that prey. So "gauging the strength of the enemy pack" wouldn't be a valid Hunt, but "knowledge of the enemy pack's highest Renown" might be valid prey for a Hunt at my table. Completing such a Hunt might be difficult though, cause how do you "take down" knowledge?

      Also, you want to be careful with over-using Siskur-Dah. The Sacred Hunt is sacred, and should be treated as such. It's not to be used for beer runs or minor fetch quests.
      Last edited by Charlaquin; 05-20-2017, 03:16 PM.


      Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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      • #4
        So far I've only called hunts on individuals, cults, or vampiric organizations. I think if he just wants to know which renown they have, get a glimpse of them at the Shadow, or get spirits (such as your totem) to tell you, because spirits need to be able to tell which renown uratha have in order to impart gifts. Or bribe some other spirit with the task. But yeah, if you're calling a hunt and break it off after looking at your prey... Breaking point dude.

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        • #5
          On last game session my players invoke Sacred Hunt on spirit, after their Bone Shadows Ithaeur. If PC only find and questioned this spirit - Was it fullfiled Siskur-Dah? Condition marks that Prey maybe not be needed to be killed to resolution.


          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #6
            Other question - Can you invoke Sacred Hunt on beings you are not sure who is? My PCs know that close to them NPC - Lars - was murdered. But they do not know killer ID yet. Can they invoke Siskur-Dah on 'Killer of Lars' without specifiying?


            My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
            LGBT+ in CoD games

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            • #7
              And last, but not least - Can you have multiple Siskur-Dah instances on your self? Like in my examples - Could one PC have Sacred Hunt Condition on particular spirit and 'Lars Killer', in the same time?


              My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #8
                @wyrd

                1 - Depends on how they phrased the hunt and what was the outcome of the questioning.

                2 - Yes.

                3 - No.


                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                  1 - Depends on how they phrased the hunt and what was the outcome of the questioning.
                  HOW Sacred Hunt should be phrased? Or even invoked? Example in 2E corebook is only stating actions on the rite ( ritemaster dressing up and running and hiding from rest of the pack ), but do not have incantation examples. Could they work:

                  'Oh, Shadow Realm/Spirits/Gods, we will hunt <Prey>!'

                  'We will get <Prey>!'

                  'We will brought down <Prey>!'


                  From players stand point it's better to mark Siskur-Dah as broad as it can, to decide what to do with the Prey based on information their collect in the time of whole Hunt.


                  My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                  LGBT+ in CoD games

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                    HOW Sacred Hunt should be phrased? Or even invoked? Example in 2E corebook is only stating actions on the rite ( ritemaster dressing up and running and hiding from rest of the pack ), but do not have incantation examples. Could they work:

                    'Oh, Shadow Realm/Spirits/Gods, we will hunt <Prey>!'

                    'We will get <Prey>!'

                    'We will brought down <Prey>!'


                    From players stand point it's better to mark Siskur-Dah as broad as it can, to decide what to do with the Prey based on information their collect in the time of whole Hunt.

                    "With the blood of Urfarah in our flesh and the light of the Warden Moon in our soul, we of the Night Dancers pack declare that we shall ferret out The Baron of Whispers and demand from him the knowledge we seek, under the grace of Kamduis-Ur the Firstborn."


                    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                    • #11
                      Also, invocation should be on start or at end of the Rite? You first invoke and run the ritemaster, or run the ritemaster and then invoke?


                      My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                      LGBT+ in CoD games

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                        HOW Sacred Hunt should be phrased? Or even invoked? Example in 2E corebook is only stating actions on the rite ( ritemaster dressing up and running and hiding from rest of the pack ), but do not have incantation examples. Could they work:

                        'Oh, Shadow Realm/Spirits/Gods, we will hunt <Prey>!'

                        'We will get <Prey>!'

                        'We will brought down <Prey>!'


                        From players stand point it's better to mark Siskur-Dah as broad as it can, to decide what to do with the Prey based on information their collect in the time of whole Hunt.
                        No, that's a rather pathetic attempt at a Sacred Hunt, unworthy of The People. Display some courage, earn the name Uratha and actually say what your accomplishments will be.

                        (If I was the Storyteller and you used those words for your hunt, I'd interpret it as dramatically as possible and declare that the Shadow laws demand blood and death from such a hunt. Either kill or be killed. If you want a more nuanced hunt, make a more nuanced statement.)

                        Giving further answer to your first question, you asked if finding and questioning a spirit counts as fulfilling the hunt. As I said, it depends on the wording.

                        "Come on pack, we're going to hunt that spirit and get some answers!" - you're fine. Hunt complete.

                        "Come on pack, we're going to hunt that spirit and make it pay!" - you may be fine. Certainly, if answering inconvenient questions is paying it in kind for whatever it's done, it's thematic for the Bone Shadows.

                        "Come on pack, we're going to hunt that spirit and tear it apart!" - asking a few questions isn't likely to fulfill this, unless its bane is answering questions under duress.

                        "Come on pack, we're going to hunt that spirit and destroy it utterly!" - you're not even close to fulfilling the hunt. You either keep going or fail.





                        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post


                          "With the blood of Urfarah in our flesh and the light of the Warden Moon in our soul, we of the Night Dancers pack declare that we shall ferret out The Baron of Whispers and demand from him the knowledge we seek, under the grace of Kamduis-Ur the Firstborn."
                          Yeah, 21C Hermit gets it.


                          Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            On last game session my players invoke Sacred Hunt on spirit, after their Bone Shadows Ithaeur. If PC only find and questioned this spirit - Was it fullfiled Siskur-Dah? Condition marks that Prey maybe not be needed to be killed to resolution.
                            Was the spirit hiding? Was questioning the spirit enough to "treat it in kind"? What did he "took down"?

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