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[2E fan] Lodge of Crime – Tribal Pillar of Iron Masters

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  • [2E fan] Lodge of Crime – Tribal Pillar of Iron Masters

    When looking over Iron Masters Tribal Pillars in The Pack book, I found out there are still missing two crucial Lodge themes in them – those hunting human cults. And those that work from the so called criminal underworld. If we marry this two concepts, we get Lodge based on Mafia-like structures that hunts for cults and their members by illegal activities of those groups – like illegal auctions, gun trade drug trade or even human trafficking. Compared to Lodge of Shield, they would do this more because ‘cultists are bad for business’. Wanted to call this group Lodge of Silence – as more open translation of Omerta code – but there is already official Lodge of that name. So any idea on the name are more than welcome. 😊

    Here are basic idea of Lodge write-up – opening and Totem section will be written when I have name of the group.

    Lodge of Crime

    Organized crime is as old as society. Some even say it is the society. Ebb and flow of illegal business is the lifeblood of commerce in some places were law do not work. And were are humans, there are werewolves. Lodge of Crime is one of truly ancient origin. Respected as one of Iron Masters Tribal Pillars, is dedicating in looking over lawless and driven to crime. Is it local gang, Mafia family or even rag tag band of criminals – they all can work for the good of Forsaken. Many organized crime cells works as werewolf packs, dedicated to secrecy, protecting their territory, assets and members, under one common goal. Adherents of Crime just ramp it to next level, by adding sacred duty amidst all the crimes – to hunt and take out cults from their territory.

    Many are surprised hearing this, but cults and extremist groups are often clashing with organized crime. Fringe religion need to defend it’s assets, so they go in to arms dealing. Often they need trafficking humans or get their hands to corrupt local authority figures of day society. Not too mention how terrorism makes everyone too scared to work black market deals. Not to mention that many times, cults are hiding as the organized crime structures in the first place. It’s all bad for business. So adherents take out all the cults they can find of the picture. Business must go on.

    As Tribal Pillar most Lodges members are Iron Masters. As proverbial ‘wolves in sheep clothing’ they best understand working in secrecy illegal acts under human society. There are also rare Bone Shadows and Storm Lords members, but they are much more dedicated in seeking supernatural cults leaders than working the streets or looking over business.

    TOTEM: <First Tounge name>, Dark Deeds
    <First Tounge name> is a spirit of secret and illegal actions. He looks like human-like figure about doing some disturbing actions, made of darkness and in modern equivalent of robes and hood, concealing as much as he can of his non-face. In this days he use black as night leather jacket pants with symbols of local gangs and, with dark motorcycle helmet always on. Century ago it was black suit and cape with hood. He miss light when he can, sending cryptic commands or warnings from under the street lamp.

    He shows up, from time to time, to the adherents of the Lodge to send some cryptic or need advises on how to run business or what competition to take out. Most of the time it’s all that needed, as members just by their own actions generate all the Essence he needs. In rare instance adherent may summon <First Tounge name> to ask for advise himself – or to wanting to seal some very lucrative contract.


    BONDS

    Blessing: The Lodge member instantly ‘know the guy who know the guy’. It works as Ties Of Word And Promise Facet of Half Moon Gifts. If adherent already have this Facet, he can use it with 1 Essence discount – for example, creating Allies 4 network will only costs 3 Essence the character.

    Aspiration: To work ‘good business’. / Competition is in many times ‘bad for business’. 😉 /

    Ban: Adherent cannot go to the law enforcement for help in any of it’s Hunts.

    SACRED HUNT
    The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to sense spiritual connection over human, even when he is not direct Ridden. If mortal is under influence of Totem Blessing or even spirit’s Manifestations, Influences or Numina, adherent can scenes this connection. He do not know what being is influencing mortal, but can sense it’s connection by human he sees.

    TOOLS
    The Lodge of Crime has access to the Lodge Armory and Lodge Connections Merits.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-26-2017, 02:36 AM.


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  • #2
    I think the problem with cults is that it isn't just humans. It's a three-pronged problem with otherworldly entities (Bone Shadows), humans (Iron Masters), and otherworldly entities breaking through and possessing humans (Storm Lords).
    It wouldn't be an Iron Master-focused Lodge. It'd be a lot more wide-spread than so.

    Lodge of the Fallen Idol in Splintered might be a good place to start though, considering that they are focused on making sure humans don't worship stuff.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
      I think the problem with cults is that it isn't just humans. It's a three-pronged problem with otherworldly entities (Bone Shadows), humans (Iron Masters), and otherworldly entities breaking through and possessing humans (Storm Lords).
      Not every cult have Ridden members/leaders - spirit or Totem can connect with humans directly, for examples in dreams.

      Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
      It wouldn't be an Iron Master-focused Lodge. It'd be a lot more wide-spread than so.
      From what I know, Tribal Pillars are not only sole one Tribe groups - just main Tribe is most important. With using 'criminal underworld as means to capture cult in works', Iron Masters surely come to mind. Probably Bone Shadows would be much more smaller minority, as they are having much worse time adjusting to humanity interplays of human criminal society.

      Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
      Lodge of the Fallen Idol in Splintered might be a good place to start though, considering that they are focused on making sure humans don't worship stuff.
      Okay, will look in to them than and talk about what would I use them.


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      • #4
        Okay, so Lodge of the Fallen Idol from Splintered are basically atheists and cults deprogrammers. Even if, myself, privately, can side with Fallen Idol philosophy, it is completely other group than the Lodge of Mafia (?) I proposed.

        My own idea is that running cult, in reality, makes you do illegal stuff - stuff that will, sooner or later, come with conflict with organised crime. And so, organised crime will want to take out cults from the possible problems. Just see John Marcone from Dresden Files - he is mafioso that is entwined in supernatural only because those cults and sorcerers are doing bad things to his illegal business. Lodge of Mafia can go to suppress belief in other things than 'hard cash & reality' on those they have direct influence, but I think they would much less be concerned with what every one believes around them - at least till they do not start to make 'secret deals' with alien forces, thinking it's all sacrifices to your private god.
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-24-2017, 11:35 AM.


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        • #5
          Tribal Pillars are a bit more than just having the 'main tribe' more important. They're core aspects of the tribe, 'pillars.' It's why there's only three of them per tribe. This would be a lodge but it wouldn't be a pillar, going by the setting.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nofather View Post
            This would be a lodge but it wouldn't be a pillar, going by the setting.
            Concentration on cults and criminals society points to large dedication to Iron Masters goals and dogma.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

              Concentration on cults and criminals society points to large dedication to Iron Masters goals and dogma.
              Not really. They concentrate on humanity, not specific subsets of it.

              What you want could also be a part of the Lodge of Lightning, who "hunt humans who galvanize society around them".
              That certainly includes cult leaders, and crime bosses, but also politicians, successful businessmen, and really anyone who has a great deal of social impact.

              It isn't different enough to be a tribal pillar.

              Also, organized crime is way younger than the tribal pillars.
              Because really, organized crime is just a parallel society, and in early human history, it WAS a society. When someone built up an organisation like that, it wasn't a crime syndicate: it was a new state or settlement. They are in essence identical.

              Oh, and if you wanted to use the Italian Mafia as a template, that's way, WAY too young.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                What you want could also be a part of the Lodge of Lightning, who "hunt humans who galvanize society around them".
                That certainly includes cult leaders, and crime bosses, but also politicians, successful businessmen, and really anyone who has a great deal of social impact.
                More respect from me to the Lodge of Lighting then. But I still think that Lighting is concerned with individuals, not whole groups/cults - at least from my reading of paragraph about them in Pack book.

                Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                It isn't different enough to be a tribal pillar.
                I still would argue that there maybe more Tribal Pillars than 3 proposed in The Pack book - like Lodge of Metal is described as 'A highly respected and ancient Lodge with a penchant for smithing and forging of all types'. The group I think about is 'as old as society', making it technically a Pillar - they were 'forever' with the Tribe.

                Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                Also, organized crime is way younger than the tribal pillars.
                Because really, organized crime is just a parallel society, and in early human history, it WAS a society. When someone built up an organisation like that, it wasn't a crime syndicate: it was a new state or settlement. They are in essence identical.

                Oh, and if you wanted to use the Italian Mafia as a template, that's way, WAY too young.
                Italian Mafia would only by one of latest organisations template. It can also work in diffrent templetes from diffrent cultures - making it more worldwide universal, .

                And as you pointed - organised crime is as old as society. And we know that even in Vinca culture, we had society to based it - i.e. before Urfarafth death and creation of Tribes as we know it. It was on the start, and is to this day - i.e. Tribal Pillar.

                Thinking about symbol - That we hammered it would be about Crime ( on general ) - I just wonder if using Crime itself as Lodge Symbols. It seems a bit blunt and do not wholly jive with hunting cults.

                Best would be Symbol between Crime and Omerta - something fairly universal to organised crime, but not tradition of particular instance of it. Silence would be golden here, but it's used for official group.
                Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-25-2017, 12:34 AM.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  More respect from me to the Lodge of Lighting then. But I still think that Lighting is concerned with individuals, not whole groups/cults - at least from my reading of paragraph about them in Pack book.
                  But... Cults ARE all about individuals. The leaders are really all that matter. They are the reason for the cult surviving.
                  And if it's an otherworldly entity mucking it up, it's Bone Shadow or Storm Lord territory as well as the Iron Masters.

                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  I still would argue that there maybe more Tribal Pillars than 3 proposed in The Pack book - like Lodge of Metal is described as 'A highly respected and ancient Lodge with a penchant for smithing and forging of all types'. The group I think about is 'as old as society', making it technically a Pillar - they were 'forever' with the Tribe.
                  Yeah, but "making stuff" isn't a unique facet of the Iron Masters. All tribes need craftsmen and makers. This is one of the great things about separating Lodges from Tribes, it isn't just an Iron Master thing.

                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Italian Mafia would only by one of latest organisations template. It can also work in diffrent templetes from diffrent cultures - making it more worldwide universal, .

                  And as you pointed - organised crime is as old as society. And we know that even in Vinca culture, we had society to based it - i.e. before Urfarafth death and creation of Tribes as we know it. It was on the start, and is to this day - i.e. Tribal Pillar.
                  No no. Organized crime isn't as old AS society, it IS society.
                  When there is nothing to keep order, people will make it. Organised crime just happens to be a society that deals with illegal stuff, but at it's core ALL organised crime groups are about creating order.

                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Thinking about symbol - That we hammered it would be about Crime ( on general ) - I just wonder if using Crime itself as Lodge Symbols. It seems a bit blunt and do not wholly jive with hunting cults.

                  Best would be Symbol between Crime and Omerta - something fairly universal to organised crime, but not tradition of particular instance of it. Silence would be golden here, but it's used for official group.
                  Silence isn't anything special. That's just a part of loyalty to the group. That's universal humanity that.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                    But... Cults ARE all about individuals. The leaders are really all that matter. They are the reason for the cult surviving.
                    LOL, Nope! It's like you saying that Catholic Church is so much powerful, because it's ruled by one old man in Rome. No, religions are powerful because many people follow them with 'good cause', dedicating their lives to churches mission. Cults, as extremists religions, are much more vulnerable for lose of leader, but in the end it's number of followers that crucial here. That's all the day-to-day members doing all this 'love bombing', using shame or fear tactics, collecting resources. Without his followers, cult leader is only weird speaking guy. And there are known examples of cults surviving after their cult leaders death.

                    Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                    And if it's an otherworldly entity mucking it up, it's Bone Shadow or Storm Lord territory as well as the Iron Masters.
                    I do not deny that once we have Spirit or Claimed marked, other Tribes will want their Prey to kill. But it's assessed that on first try to checking if something supernatural is going in human society, only Iron Masters are dedicated to put up the neck. Remember, there are also non-supernatural cults or non-religion cults. They all will, sooner or later, do something illegal - earlier nWoD book Antagonists even use word 'terrorism' for actions of cults - but it still wan't be other Tribes Prey here. Iron Masters are needed on any level of hunting cults, other Tribes are only for the ending thing that spawn it.

                    Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                    No no. Organized crime isn't as old AS society, it IS society.
                    When there is nothing to keep order, people will make it. Organised crime just happens to be a society that deals with illegal stuff, but at it's core ALL organised crime groups are about creating order.
                    Okay, great - so as Iron Masters are 'society hunters' it marks them clearly as Tribal Pillar group of Tribe that use society. Thanks for next argument for the Lodge.
                    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-26-2017, 01:34 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      LOL, Nope! It's like you saying that Catholic Church is so much powerful, because it's ruled by one old man in Rome. No, religions are powerful because many people follow them with 'good cause', dedicating their lives to churches mission.
                      Wyrd, a cult does not spontaneously form out of its followers. There is no Buddhism without the Buddha, there is no Christianity without the Christ, and the ramshackle faith of a cult of possession-victims simply does not coalesce into a concrete social unit without The Idea Guy or at the very least The Face Of The Formative Inner Circle. These organizations do not come into being without that foundational advocate. That's part of why the Lodge of Lightning hunts those people.

                      The 2e corebook highlights humans' threat level relative to the individual level in terms of specific characters' interaction with the wider world, not an artless appeal to greater numbers — the serial killer is dangerous despite his human frailty because he can wreak havoc on the resonance of the local Shadow, the corrupt councilor is worrisome with or without immunity to Lunacy because she holds sway over important chunks of mortal society, and the cult leader who's pulled a bunch of dissatisfied rich folk into a brainwashing scheme should be cause for concern regardless of whether their rhetoric holds mass appeal.


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                      • #12
                        Written first version of full write-up, choosing name as Lodge of Crime. Need only First Tounge transaltion of Totem, and it seems as ready.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          Wyrd, a cult does not spontaneously form out of its followers.
                          Would argue with that - secular cults from Antagonists book seems to work exactly that way. Cult leader use cause that is not working in cult members lives and starting the group. Most will disband without cult leader - some will survive, as next cult leaders shows up from previous members.

                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          There is no Buddhism without the Buddha, there is no Christianity without the Christ,
                          Weird, I did not seen any Buddha and Christ in over two millenia, and still their cults works even long after they death.

                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          the ramshackle faith of a cult of possession-victims simply does not coalesce into a concrete social unit without The Idea Guy or at the very least The Face Of The Formative Inner Circle.
                          There are MANY kinds of cults, not only personality type. Really, read Antagonists book chapter, to see all diffrent. But even if we only commits to religious only ( that is not the point of the Lodge, it hunts various groups ), our major religions were cults before. Christianity is rebellious off-shoot from Judaism, lead by the 13 men on the beginning, from when their cult leader die.

                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          These organizations do not come into being without that foundational advocate. That's part of why the Lodge of Lightning hunts those people.
                          Great, so let Lodge of Lighting hunts cult leaders. Really, let Lighting do it's thing. There are also this all other normal-level cult members that do all this illegal stuff cult leaders do not want themselves or do not have time for. There comes Lodge of Crime.

                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          The 2e corebook highlights humans' threat level relative to the individual level in terms of specific characters' interaction with the wider world, not an artless appeal to greater numbers — the serial killer is dangerous despite his human frailty because he can wreak havoc on the resonance of the local Shadow, the corrupt councilor is worrisome with or without immunity to Lunacy because she holds sway over important chunks of mortal society, and the cult leader who's pulled a bunch of dissatisfied rich folk into a brainwashing scheme should be cause for concern regardless of whether their rhetoric holds mass appeal.
                          If 'Humanity as a Prey' is only about some individuals, why have two others Pillars? Why have any other Lodges in Tribe? Lodge of Lighting should be then end of any Iron Masters actions. It's not? Oh, so there is place for other groups and Prey interpretations in a Tribe.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                            LOL, Nope! It's like you saying that Catholic Church is so much powerful, because it's ruled by one old man in Rome. No, religions are powerful because many people follow them with 'good cause', dedicating their lives to churches mission. Cults, as extremists religions, are much more vulnerable for lose of leader, but in the end it's number of followers that crucial here. That's all the day-to-day members doing all this 'love bombing', using shame or fear tactics, collecting resources. Without his followers, cult leader is only weird speaking guy. And there are known examples of cults surviving after their cult leaders death.
                            Religions and cults survive the death of their former leadership when those leaders are replaced. When a cult seemingly has no central leadership figure, that's because the real man of power whom the followers converge around is well-hidden from outsiders.

                            Okay, great - so as Iron Masters are 'society hunters' it marks them clearly as Tribal Pillar group of Tribe that use society. Thanks for next argument for the Lodge.
                            Iron Masters hunt society? You sure about that, wyrd? They hunt humans. Not just any humans, since most aren't dangerous. They only hunt the ones whose influence reach out beyond themselves. Serial killers, politicians, cult leaders and such are those people, the big game in the woods. Human society is the woods the game prance in, and the Iron Masters learn to navigate through those woods. Trying to dismantle societies, while being something that an Iron Master lodge could form out of, is by no means central enough to be called a Pillar.

                            Seidmadr, in his argument, said organized crime basically equals society. Which is ubiquitous, as you yourself said. Then it disqualifies them from being a Pillar Lodge, because hunting within human societies is what all Iron Masters do in the first place.


                            I propose the Lodge of Crime as a Lodge primarily composed of Iron Masters, whose Sacred Prey is rival organized crime but focusing more on the underground movers and shakers rather than the phenomenon itself. These guys would come straight for John Marcone, not the mafia of Chicago. Also, Uratha logic would conclude that cults which encourage harmful Resonances are basically criminal organizations as well. Crimes against the spirit world, that is. So human cults are another "competing criminal organization," so to speak, and thus they're still valid prey for the Lodge.

                            However, crime bosses and cult leaders are by definition surrounded and protected by their minions and cultists. That's where the Siskur-Dah Condition can come in. Maybe something similar in concept to the 3rd facet of the Full-Moon Gift, which lets the werewolf easily dispose of hecklers that get in the way of the real prey.


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                            • #15
                              Using Christianity as an example, the Lodge of Lightning would hunt the would-be Jesuses. Your Lodge of Crime would hunt the would-be Apostles. All the regular would-be Christians are cannon fodder, the equivalent random encounter monsters in RPGs in the dungeons and fields.


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