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Who Can Use Fetishes?

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  • Bloodyquill
    started a topic Who Can Use Fetishes?

    Who Can Use Fetishes?

    As the title says who can use Talens and Fetishes? I know in the older editions some fetishes and talens specifically made for non-werewolves existed. Is there anything in the books giving us an answer?

  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Teatime View Post
    I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you talking about Relics as seen in "Hunter: the Vigil" and "Reliquary"? Because Mummy uses the same term for something far more specific. Unless you mean that Relics (either type) are usable by anyone while Fetishes like Gridlock Puzzle work on Uratha only.
    You were talking about Mummy relics, so I mentioned Mummy relics. The car one is specifically Nolan's Lamborghini, p221, a model of a car that lets you control cars. The one that grants a bonus could be the White Ibis or any of the other Mummy relics that grant a bonus to some stat or another. When I was referring to generic use, I was pointing out that, for instance, Nolan's Lamborghini doesn't rely on having a certain Mummy Affinity or Utterance, it does not change 'Regalia of the Mamelukes' so that all cars inflict Aggravated damage or something, just like the White Ibis doesn't only activate when you've Descended from henet, things that would trigger only for mummies.

    In the latter case, you're right. It would be weird to let a Mage use the Gridlock Puzzle. However, Fetishes like Tracker's Lantern don't have such requirements of the user. Fetishes like Dawn Shard go even further and only require being displayed on one's person. If I ran a game I would let a Mage bridge the metaphysical gap with Spirit Arcanum, as long as they also did the necessary rituals, like howling aloud when using Stalker's Lament. I might even give them a supernatural Condition for channeling the Hisil in a way they weren't supposed to.
    And you can run games how you want.

    Uratha, on the other hand, are so in sync with the Spirit World and its denizens, that it would feel unfair to bar them from interacting with a Mage Fetish. I would feel obliged to give them some kind of loophole. Maybe accepting a Condition of Supernal origin.
    Werewolves can have fetishes that 'only' use Influences as well, and any Mana investment mages use to power their fetishes is just converted to Essence anyways.

    Since we're talking houserules, I suppose what I'd do is the following. If a mage uses a fetish, either a werewolf or mage-crafted one, they can force the spirit to use the Influences or Numina of the spirit inside. If a werewolf uses one, they follow the usual rules but potentially gain a different outcome, with the spirit interacting with their unique makeup to grant some other advantage.

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  • Teatime
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    The problem is that Relics tend to have general uses. 'Controlling a car,' or granting a flat bonus to a Skill or Attribute. They tend to be 'generic' magic items, and fetishes do not.
    I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you talking about Relics as seen in "Hunter: the Vigil" and "Reliquary"? Because Mummy uses the same term for something far more specific. Unless you mean that Relics (either type) are usable by anyone while Fetishes like Gridlock Puzzle work on Uratha only.

    In the latter case, you're right. It would be weird to let a Mage use the Gridlock Puzzle. However, Fetishes like Tracker's Lantern don't have such requirements of the user. Fetishes like Dawn Shard go even further and only require being displayed on one's person. If I ran a game I would let a Mage bridge the metaphysical gap with Spirit Arcanum, as long as they also did the necessary rituals, like howling aloud when using Stalker's Lament. I might even give them a supernatural Condition for channeling the Hisil in a way they weren't supposed to.

    Uratha, on the other hand, are so in sync with the Spirit World and its denizens, that it would feel unfair to bar them from interacting with a Mage Fetish. I would feel obliged to give them some kind of loophole. Maybe accepting a Condition of Supernal origin.

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Teatime View Post
    Even though one of the writers confirmed that, I think the approach to crossover taken in "Dark Eras Companion" is far superior. In "Princes of the Conquered Lands" we learn that even though Mages and Mummies run on different metaphysics, they can use each others items - with caveats. The way Mummies use them is particularly interesting - they can use those Artifacts and Imbued Items that correspond to the Mummy's Guild and they have to whisper trade secrets to it, so the object "knows" what's required of it. I love the strangeness of it, and I think edge cases like that are far more satisfying.

    Mages, on the other hand, can activate Relics with Prime, because they're filthy cheaters.
    The problem is that Relics tend to have general uses. 'Controlling a car,' or granting a flat bonus to a Skill or Attribute. They tend to be 'generic' magic items, and fetishes do not. How is a mage going to take advantage of the Gridlock Puzzle, which only works if you have the All Doors Locked Gift?

    And even then, being 'filthy cheaters' with access to spirit, it makes more sense for them to only be able to access the spirit's side of the gifts, The Mage Craft Fetish spell lets them use the spirit's Influences and potentially Numina because they're dealing directly with the spirit. The way werewolves use these things, however, is similar to Gifts. The spirit's being goes through the werewolf, interacting with its hunter soul and potentially other Gifts, and comes out with a specialized effect because of it.

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  • Teatime
    replied
    Originally posted by MtA 2nd p.183
    Fetishes work like an Imbued Items, save that a fetish is powered by Essence and, instead of holding a Supernal spell, it holds one of the bound spirit’s Influences and, possibly, some of its Numina.
    Almost.

    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    IIRC Mage Fetishes and Werewolf fetishes are almost totally different things and neither can use the other's version.
    Even though one of the writers confirmed that, I think the approach to crossover taken in "Dark Eras Companion" is far superior. In "Princes of the Conquered Lands" we learn that even though Mages and Mummies run on different metaphysics, they can use each others items - with caveats. The way Mummies use them is particularly interesting - they can use those Artifacts and Imbued Items that correspond to the Mummy's Guild and they have to whisper trade secrets to it, so the object "knows" what's required of it. I love the strangeness of it, and I think edge cases like that are far more satisfying.

    Mages, on the other hand, can activate Relics with Prime, because they're filthy cheaters.
    Last edited by Teatime; 06-01-2017, 12:15 PM.

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  • lnodiv
    replied
    Originally posted by Malus View Post

    One runs on Mana, the other on Essence. One's made by Supernal laws, the other by Fallen ones.
    Mage fetishes run on Essence.

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  • Malus
    replied
    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    IIRC Mage Fetishes and Werewolf fetishes are almost totally different things and neither can use the other's version.
    One runs on Mana, the other on Essence. One's made by Supernal laws, the other by Fallen ones.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    IIRC Mage Fetishes and Werewolf fetishes are almost totally different things and neither can use the other's version.

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Uratha and wolf-blooded with a Tell that lets them use it. Other spirit-based creatures that use Essence.

    In many cases it will depend on the fetish. Only werewolves are going to get any use out of the charred death-rattle, which 'is used when activating the Tongue of Flame Elemental Facet.' Outside of some weirdly unusual circumstances, no one but Uratha are going to be able to do that.

    Mages can make fetishes but they're a bit different in comparison to werewolf ones, as mages aren't about the hunt.

    There's always exceptions. Hexesucher was a fetish in the mage book Night Horrors: Unbidden that would control its Awakened wielders, driving them to hunt and kill witches. If someone gained control over the fetish, it would quickly work to destroy them. Anyone could use this fetish, as the spirit could guide them, but they might be used in turn.
    Last edited by nofather; 05-26-2017, 12:27 AM.

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