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[2E] Voluntarily Fail a Breaking Point?

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  • [2E] Voluntarily Fail a Breaking Point?

    As a player, can I choose to fail a Breaking Point to make progress towards Harmony 5?

    Cheers

  • #2
    Not by the rules as written. Your ST might allow it, but it sort of takes away some of the drama. Plus, Harmony 5 is explicitly the best place to be mechanically, and I'd argue it would allow one to game the system a bit too much.



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    • #3
      Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
      Not by the rules as written. Your ST might allow it, but it sort of takes away some of the drama. Plus, Harmony 5 is explicitly the best place to be mechanically, and I'd argue it would allow one to game the system a bit too much.
      Also, it kind of takes some of the weight out of higher-Primal Urge werewolves destabilizing more easily* if you don't have to deliberately hamstring your Resolve or Composure or go to further lengths to fail your way towards the middle.

      * Siskur-Dah and Essence hunger do a lot of heavy lifting on the Harmony scale - who knew?


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      • #4
        Yeah it kind of removes any teeth from Harmony if you can voluntarily fail Breaking Points.


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        • #5
          From a similar out of character standpoint you could just repeat the sin until your Harmony breaks the way you want it to, but in-character there's likely to be consequences for it.

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          • #6
            I was going to comment on how its a little weird that it is so hard to deliberately change your harmony considering that it is something that would be pretty important for the "onboarding" process of a new uratha, but on a re-read I found a surefire way to do it that I had forgotten about: losing your physical touchstone shifts you towards spirit no matter what. I actually really like how this reinforces a lot of tropes that I like in a way that is so much better than fiddling with how breaking points towards harmony work.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by solidork View Post
              I was going to comment on how its a little weird that it is so hard to deliberately change your harmony considering that it is something that would be pretty important for the "onboarding" process of a new uratha,
              Harmony's meant to be tested a lot during play. You shouldn't have a problem just rolling and chancing it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nofather View Post

                Harmony's meant to be tested a lot during play. You shouldn't have a problem just rolling and chancing it.
                There's also the matter of the mounting one-way penalties that make it easier and easier to fall towards the ends the further from the middle you are.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kal View Post
                  As a player, can I choose to fail a Breaking Point to make progress towards Harmony 5?

                  Cheers
                  My general rule is that the player can voluntarily fail any tests so long as the character is conscious.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nofather View Post

                    Harmony's meant to be tested a lot during play. You shouldn't have a problem just rolling and chancing it.
                    I get that the examples given are mostly guidelines, but the fact that some of them are so extreme (murder, cannibalism) leaves me uncertain what should count. It would make sense and make things simpler if the major steps of initiation into the Forsaken culture (swearing the Oath of the Moon, joining or forming a pack, getting a totem) were breaking points towards spirit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by solidork View Post
                      I get that the examples given are mostly guidelines, but the fact that some of them are so extreme (murder, cannibalism) leaves me uncertain what should count.
                      Murder's likely to pop up a lot, and cannibalism is on the table whenever someone rages, or just needs Essence.

                      It would make sense and make things simpler if the major steps of initiation into the Forsaken culture (swearing the Oath of the Moon, joining or forming a pack, getting a totem) were breaking points towards spirit.
                      Some of these things are likely to happen once in the life of a werewolf, for some characters like ghost wolves never. Besides, they're part of the character creation process so already tied into why you start with 7 when you have 9 after the First Change.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nofather View Post
                        Some of these things are likely to happen once in the life of a werewolf, for some characters like ghost wolves never. Besides, they're part of the character creation process so already tied into why you start with 7 when you have 9 after the First Change.
                        No, I totally get that. This mostly just musing about what might have gone on between somebody's first change and when play starts to cause them to be at 7 when play starts, and how werewolf society would actively encourage newly changed wolves to do things to bring their harmony in balance and what those things might be. If all of the normal initiation type stuff is what actually contributes towards balancing your harmony during the first phase of your werewolfitude then a tiny part of me that has been going "hmmm" starts going "ahhhh".

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                        • #13
                          Player risen in Harmony to 8 in previous sessions. To lower it, he wanted to commit murder. I run intense scene of his sacrificing innocent. I then pass rolling Resolve + Composure as player wanted to lower Harmony, and rolling will be anticlimactic with going for success, for player and my investment in the scene. Still, most of the time I would ask player to roll on his Harmony Breaking Point.
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-06-2017, 04:07 AM.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            Player risen in Harmony to 8 in previous sessions. To lower it, he wanted to commit murder. I run intense scene of his sacrificing innocent. I then pass rolling Resolve + Composure as player wanted to lower Harmony, and rolling will be anticlimactic with going for success, for player and my investment in the scene. Still, most of the time I would ask player to roll on his Harmony Breaking Point.
                            Alternatively, roll for them and fudge

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kal View Post
                              As a player, can I choose to fail a Breaking Point to make progress towards Harmony 5?
                              Cheers
                              The way I see it, intentionally failing this kind of roll is pushing a player desire onto a character's role-play. It's like the old alignment issues of D&D: you've been doing a bunch of good deeds, and you're at risk of losing your neutral alignment, so you go and stab some random people and kick some puppies while you're at it. It can come off as reckless playing, or as if the player doesn't want to deal with the consequences of their actions and wants an easy out. There's definitely some in-game level of awareness of the Harmony mechanic, but I like to look at it more like what's pushing and pulling at the character's being, instincts, etc. instead of just a number and a roll. So if I were the ST, I'd say you can't just opt to fail the roll, but I'd also try to work with you as a player to find some in-character opportunities to balance things back out if that's what you're looking for.

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