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[2E] Voluntarily Fail a Breaking Point?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wakuwa View Post

    The way I see it, intentionally failing this kind of roll is pushing a player desire onto a character's role-play. It's like the old alignment issues of D&D: you've been doing a bunch of good deeds, and you're at risk of losing your neutral alignment, so you go and stab some random people and kick some puppies while you're at it. It can come off as reckless playing, or as if the player doesn't want to deal with the consequences of their actions and wants an easy out. There's definitely some in-game level of awareness of the Harmony mechanic, but I like to look at it more like what's pushing and pulling at the character's being, instincts, etc. instead of just a number and a roll. So if I were the ST, I'd say you can't just opt to fail the roll, but I'd also try to work with you as a player to find some in-character opportunities to balance things back out if that's what you're looking for.
    Re: in character motivations are aspirations.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Malus View Post

      Re: in character motivations are aspirations.
      Or out of character goals the player has for the character. Nor if what you were saying is true that excludes other mechanics also governing character motivation: example Blood and Bone, Harmony, Aspirations, Doors open against a character, and various merits all chip in with some weight on the matter.

      Aspiration Example:
      Fail at defending my mother from the Pure Packs harassing our kin.
      Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 06-07-2017, 12:09 PM.


      “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
      "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Pale_Crusader View Post

        Or out of character goals the player has for the character. Nor if what you were saying is true that excludes other mechanics also governing character motivation: example Blood and Bone, Harmony, Aspirations, Doors open against a character, and various merits all chip in with some weight on the matter.

        Aspiration Example:
        Fail at defending my mother from the Pure Packs harassing our kin.
        Yes, yes, I was the one who first stated that aspirations could be negative outcome like that back in that thread about it.

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        • #19
          The way is written is weird. This one case of applying the same mechanic to everything and not thinking things through.

          Normally in all the other WoD lines, when a players wants to fail a degeneration roll you let him because its rare the player who consciously shoot himself on the foot that way.

          However as it is now its a weird scenario, as falling a roll is actually good sometimes and passing a roll is bad in other times which leaves a bad taste in players mouth as it feels weird.

          The way i handle it now is the following. Every time you roll for harmony and you pass, you get a positive outcome and every time you fail one you get the negative one. So if your PC commits an act to make himself fall toward spirit and rolls a success and he is above 5 then he moves downward. Same situation but he is 5 or less and he succeed then he stays where he is.
          Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 06-16-2017, 07:00 AM.

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          • #20
            I resolve this issue by having a 0-5 Spirit Harmony and 0-5 Flesh Harmony which totals to a 0-10 Harmony system when they add together, where "high harmony" representing having more in each sub stat.0-0 mean no Harmony towards flesh nor spirit.
            Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 06-16-2017, 05:54 PM.


            “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
            "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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            • #21
              You could also amend it by altering the definitions of 'failure'. Any time you make a sin that would move you closer to 5, a 'failure' keeps you where you are - and a success moves you closer to the ideal harmony. Any time you make a sin that would move you away from 5, a failure moves you away and a success keeps you where you are.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Pale_Crusader View Post
                I resolve this issue by having a 0-5 Spirit Harmony and 0-5 Flesh Harmony which totals to a 0-10 Harmony system when they add together, where "high harmony" representing having more in each sub stat.0-0 mean no Harmony towards flesh nor spirit.
                How did you deal with the affects of Harmony on shapeshifting? Or Death Rage Triggers? Or the Code of Honor Merit?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post

                  How did you deal with the affects of Harmony on shapeshifting? Or Death Rage Triggers? Or the Code of Honor Merit?
                  This is for the shapeshifting and movement to the material or the hisil,
                  Originally posted by Pale_Crusader View Post
                  Alternate Harmony where "High Harmony" stat means having more Harmony between spirit and flesh
                  Uratha are drawn back and forth between their role as apex spirit predator maintaining the balance of the spirit ecology and as beings of flesh in need of human connections. For an Uratha being pulled away from the spirit world is as dangerous to their emotional and mental well being as slipping away from the mundane normal world. To reflect the complex pull towards two different aspects of their nature, which is how Harmony is expressed, Uratha have two types of Supports. These Supports are capped at 5 each, for a total of 10. The first type is Human Supports which are the same as other supernaturals and mortals. The other type of Support is Spirit Supports which represents minor gaffling spirits within their territory which are evident of the spiritual health of aspects their territory. Think of these spirits as ecological indicator species found in the natural world. Like indicator species in the natural world the presence of these low level and often bottom of the food chain spirits show what the environmental factors foster. If these spirits are overfed and progress beyond gaffling shows imbalance, or if they are lost through through hurt, exposure, or vengeance they also indicate damage to the ecology. In these cases the damage represents neglect or abuse by the Uratha (Hurt), over exploitation or deliberate outside sabotage (Exposure) or reckless damage caused by reactionary rampage (Vengeance). Watching over, interacting with and keeping these spirits in line is the spiritual equivalent for a Uratha as maintaining their relationship with their territory. Uratha instinctively feel maintaining the status qua or equilibrium with these spirits keeps their territories, and thus their lives in balance, and they are correct that is a major factor in doing so.

                  Uratha begin play with 4 Human Supports and 3 Spirit Supports. After their first change some human relationships fall away, and a new spiritual awareness awakens.


                  Human Relationships
                  Parent
                  Sibling
                  Child
                  Lover
                  Rival
                  Mentor
                  Protege

                  Spirit Relationships
                  Virtue
                  Vice
                  Artifical
                  Nature
                  Elemental
                  Magath



                  Spirit Supports
                  At 4 or more Spirit Supports they don't need to roll to enter the Hisil.
                  -1 to Rolls to enter the Material each.
                  At 1 or less Spirit Supports takes the Primal Urge in Lethal wounds when changing forms.
                  At 0 Spirit Supports the Uratha loses the ability to reach to the Hisil

                  Human Support
                  At 4 or more Human Supports they don't need to roll to enter the Material
                  -1 to Rolls to enter the Hisil each.
                  At 1 or less Human Supports treats all Banes as if had 1 Permanent Atrocity higher.
                  At 0 Human Supports the Uratha loses the ability to reach to the Material.
                  It includes the Atrocity and Support mechanics, and I need to copy paste my post about death rage, which take a moment to add as an exit to this post.


                  “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                  "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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