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[Dark Eras] Wolf & Raven - Blót and Siskur-Dah

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  • [Dark Eras] Wolf & Raven - Blót and Siskur-Dah

    Prepering for Viking game, I re-read Wolf & Raven text. I found some puzzling quote on page 148 of Dark Eras corebook :

    As summer begins, and their human brethren offer blót to Odin, Norse Uratha name their prey.

    I wonder HOW Norse Uratha can name their Prey in Sacred Hunt amidst human ritual when they do not know what kind of enemy they will face over the seans?

    What, they all the time name 'people of England'? Or 'monks in monastery'? Uratha do not know what is o the other side. Not simpler would be doing Siskur-Dah on site, in the night before battle?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-19-2017, 08:08 AM.


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  • #2
    It's really not that hard. They'll hunt whatever they find on the other side of the sea.

    Blood Talons - We'll hunt whatever werewolves we find.
    Bone Shadows - We'll hunt whatever spirits we find.
    etc.

    If they want to narrow it down, or add nuance, or acknowledge that not everything they find needs to be hunted:

    Blood Talons - We'll hunt any werewolves who do .... that we find.
    Bone Shadows - We'll hunt any spirits who do ... that we find.


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    • #3
      Even if we go with Uratha naming Prey in time of Blót, they would need to articulate name of it. Do not Herd Must Not Know being broken if part of ritual participates call something like 'We will kill werewolves/spirits/Hosts/etc.'?


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      • #4
        Nothing in the passage you quote suggests that the Uratha name the prey while humans are present, or that they break their Oath.


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        • #5
          So Wolf & Raven Dark Era assumes that blót ceremony and Siskur-Dah rites are two seperate events, each time?


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          • #6
            You don't need to know their true name or anything, and any active members of the pack are already going to know there's werewolves existing, but specifics don't have to be announced to bystanders. 'Our cousins across the water.' 'The servants of the dead god.' 'Those people.'

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            • #7
              That passage doesn't even specify that they start their Siskur-Dah at the blot, just that they name their prey. Declaring what they want to seek out and hunt.
              If anything, it feels like it's one of the 1E Seasonal Rites from The Rage. Granting small, but long-term benefits.
              I mean, that makes sense, right? Declaring the over-arching goals on a big, elaborate ritual at an auspicious time, and then declare specific goals while closer to the goal.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                That passage doesn't even specify that they start their Siskur-Dah at the blot, just that they name their prey. Declaring what they want to seek out and hunt.
                If anything, it feels like it's one of the 1E Seasonal Rites from The Rage. Granting small, but long-term benefits.
                I mean, that makes sense, right? Declaring the over-arching goals on a big, elaborate ritual at an auspicious time, and then declare specific goals while closer to the goal.
                But... It's still illogical. They do not make Siskur-Dah - so they do not need to state their Prey - because doing this is on brink of Herd Must Not Know and there are no real benefits ( like Siskur-Dah bonuses) to gain from doing this. If proper Siskur-Dah is seperate event, then there is even less incentive to share secrets with humans.


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                • #9
                  It's just a social convention, I think. A lot of social customs and community rituals (the sociological kind, not the magical kind) don't make sense to outsiders but are perfectly logical to the people practicing it.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                    It's just a social convention, I think. A lot of social customs and community rituals (the sociological kind, not the magical kind) don't make sense to outsiders but are perfectly logical to the people practicing it.
                    It's adjoining on Herd Must Not Know - social convention or not, I would say that sentence in Era text is misleading - if Uratha do not truly start Siskur-Dah with humans blót, it should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Simple reading points that, indeed, Uratha starts Sacred Hunt with mortals witnessing and doing blót offerings - that is not true, as you pointed out. They are two separate ceremonies/events.

                    What is ironic, in my hack on Siskur-Dah for Everyone - where Sacred Hunt is simply Pack Rite - it CAN work as the Wolf & Raven text implying it. In my slight alternative change you do Blót with your extended Pack members ( even humans ) and naming Prey in it for Odin is totally working with the game as written. It's still is border on Herd Must Not Know, but at least Uratha and Wolf-Blooded ( or even humans ) get benefits of Siskur-Dah Conditions - Uratha and Wolf-Blooded supernatural, humans as Beat generation only for perusing Prey.
                    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-21-2017, 04:34 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                      But... It's still illogical. They do not make Siskur-Dah - so they do not need to state their Prey - because doing this is on brink of Herd Must Not Know and there are no real benefits ( like Siskur-Dah bonuses) to gain from doing this. If proper Siskur-Dah is seperate event, then there is even less incentive to share secrets with humans.
                      It's a sacred day. It is the start of the war season. I think it fits, the Uratha have their own blot and decide what to hunt, on a large scope, during the summer and fall.

                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                      It's adjoining on Herd Must Not Know - social convention or not, I would say that sentence in Era text is misleading - if Uratha do not truly start Siskur-Dah with humans blót, it should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Simple reading points that, indeed, Uratha starts Sacred Hunt with mortals witnessing and doing blót offerings - that is not true, as you pointed out. They are two separate ceremonies/events.

                      What is ironic, in my hack on Siskur-Dah for Everyone - where Sacred Hunt is simply Pack Rite - it CAN work as the Wolf & Raven text implying it. In my slight alternative change you do Blót with your extended Pack members ( even humans ) and naming Prey in it for Odin is totally working with the game as written. It's still is border on Herd Must Not Know, but at least Uratha and Wolf-Blooded ( or even humans ) get benefits of Siskur-Dah Conditions - Uratha and Wolf-Blooded supernatural, humans as Beat generation only for perusing Prey.
                      I don't see what the problem is. It's a holy day, start of summer and all that.
                      You wouldn't assume they would do it with mortals present if it was something connected to Halloween or New Years Eve, would you?
                      It is a date of astronomical significance, it's the midway point between the vernal equinox and the summer solstice. It's a natural day for holidays.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        It's a sacred day. It is the start of the war season. I think it fits, the Uratha have their own blot and decide what to hunt, on a large scope, during the summer and fall.
                        It's just this sentance wording. To me it looked like Eras text imply that Uratha made one Blót with humans. They do not, only it's marking they are making their own Blót-Siskur-Dah without humans, after official one.

                        Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                        You wouldn't assume they would do it with mortals present if it was something connected to Halloween or New Years Eve, would you?
                        I would not? From Changeling perspective you can be rewarded by making rites with humans ( as generating Glamour of particular flavor ). Hell, Summer Court can directly use Blót ceremony to make both Pledges and collect Glamour from humans dedicated to killing enemies ( i.e. with risen Anger ). And some Uratha could still use holidays like those as start of their Sacred Hunt - think about Lodge of Seasons marking their Prey on Halloween party or in the middle of winter solstice.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 06-21-2017, 08:11 AM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                          It's just this sentance wording. To me it looked like Eras text imply that Uratha made one Blót with humans. They do not, only it's marking they are making their own Blót-Siskur-Dah without humans, after official one.
                          Whereas to me it clearly looked as if they simply celebrated it on the same day.

                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          I would not? From Changeling perspective you can be rewarded by making rites with humans ( as generating Glamour of particular flavor ). Hell, Summer Court can directly use Blót ceremony to make both Pledges and collect Glamour from humans dedicated to killing enemies ( i.e. with risen Anger ). And some Uratha could still use holidays like those as start of their Sacred Hunt - think about Lodge of Seasons marking their Prey on Halloween party or in the middle of winter solstice.
                          Yeah, but Changelings try to blend into human culture, Uratha do not. They have their own culture, outside mainstream humanity.
                          I mean, of all the supernaturals in CofD, Uratha are those who are furthest removed from normal human life.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
                            Whereas to me it clearly looked as if they simply celebrated it on the same day.
                            I'd say it's vaguer. There's really no indication of timing beyond 'summer' and no actual connection indicated between Blot and naming prey beyond them being done for similiar purposes. It's really just a way of saying that as summer begins and the norse get ready for war, so do the Uratha in their own way. It's the kind of poetic thing you'd have to end a section.


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                            • #15
                              All in all, I think you're making this a larger problem than it is, wyrd.

                              So what if the mortals see the pack declaring what to hunt on their holiday? Would they immediately conclude that the hunters are actually a race of shapeshifters with ties to the spirit world? We can, armed with out-of-game knowledge. We're versed well enough in Werewolf lore to suspect any insular group who are enthusiastic with hunting as an Uratha pack. The mortals in-game... don't.


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