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Demons and Pure Uratha

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  • Story Letter
    started a topic Demons and Pure Uratha

    Demons and Pure Uratha

    Hello everyone,
    I was lately running a campaign of Demon and my player decided to check the local mountain forest of the region he dwells in.
    The thing is that pure packs roam the deep wilderness and Mage shamans-necromancers reside in places where the forest touches the outskirts of the local mountain villages.
    Not to mention local centaur and servant-grey alien like cryptids. Maybe something more sinister roams these highlands as well.
    The thing is, how would the local pure packs react towards a demon who enters their territory in the following conditions.

    a) Interrupting a camping moot
    b) Interrupting a hunting performance
    c) While fighting against a local pack
    d) While performing an important ritual.

    While the highest possibility is that the pure pack will be offended, how would the demon make proper social maneuvers in order to improve position and not get hacked appart ?
    What actions would you do as story tellers in order to give the demon player a chance for good roleplaying and maybe to find some new interesting even though highly dangerous bedfellows ?

    Thanks

  • Story Letter
    replied
    Originally posted by Korogra View Post

    That's pretty fair. Just be sure to have some sort of insurance policy in case fire demon guy tries to bite off more than he can chew lol
    He won't bite, he is too afraid of the godmachine to endager his cover, he only used partial transformation in order to defeat some mortals and he feels guilt for that, not the kills, that he had to use partial trans.

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  • Korogra
    replied
    Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
    I think that people should house rule this depending on the needs of their campaigns.
    As for my needs, I think its a good way to inroduce the demon to a pure pack without being hacked appart with the first glance.
    That's pretty fair. Just be sure to have some sort of insurance policy in case fire demon guy tries to bite off more than he can chew lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Story Letter
    replied
    I think that people should house rule this depending on the needs of their campaigns.
    As for my needs, I think its a good way to inroduce the demon to a pure pack without being hacked appart with the first glance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Malus
    replied
    I guess the reason why demons are fluent with First Tongue isn't because humanity is, but because First Tongue is their natural/real native tongue. Knowing the Mother-tongue of all languages seems like logical prerequisite to the purview of Natural Aptitude.

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  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    A spirit with Influence: Latin may speak Latin, but it does so because it's gained the Influence of Latin. As a spirit, its native language is the First Tongue. The native language thing seems to be important, not whether or not people can speak it.
    Also, while there's that line in Book of Spirits about how "everything" has a spirit, that's more to do with the breadth of spiritual purviews than probable specimens — spirits draw from things but are not those things themselves, which means their substance is built out of the nature of their resonant phenomena rather than the pure abstraction of a named concept stamped into ephemera.

    Even assuming spirits of languages naturally arise, the realities of their development and conceptual resonance are such that by the time you get a spirit conversational enough to speak Latin it's passed the threshold for which this would be be considered a language it grew up with in human terms. You start out with a mindless being that has the spiritual qualities of the Latin language and the same instinctive understanding of First Tongue as everything born of the Shadow has, and by the time it's evolved into a Hursih it's either become something else or turned into an aggregated pile of those things that happens to have a shortcut to learning Latin; you won't hear the dozing landscape conjugating verbs if you listen in on the idle chatter of rivers and hills.

    It could be that there are spirits of languages and they're all hooked into that hypothetical deep-Shadow Infrastructure Demon posits might be responsible for the Unchained gift of tongues, but that's kind of a fundamental game-by-game setting decision to make.

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  • nofather
    replied
    A spirit with Influence: Latin may speak Latin, but it does so because it's gained the Influence of Latin. As a spirit, its native language is the First Tongue. The native language thing seems to be important, not whether or not people can speak it.

    Demon the Descent, p183, 'Demons only speak native languages, however. No one in modern times grows up speaking ancient Sumerian or Latin, despite the fact that some scholars might have enough skill with these languages to understand them. Likewise, while enthusiasts might develop enough facility with artificial languages such as Tolkein’s Elvish, no one speaks the language as a native. Demons can learn to speak such languages through study, but not through Natural Aptitude. By the same token, demons can use Natural Aptitude to speak First Tongue (the “native language” of spirits), but not High Speech (the mystical tongue of the mages, no longer in common or conversational use).'

    It goes further into some demons having theorized that if they raised a bunch of children on 'unavailable' languages those languages might become available to them, as the language would be native to someone.

    All that said, to risk further derailing, the Demon the Descent forum seems a better place to ask further questions.
    Last edited by nofather; 06-28-2017, 11:23 PM.

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  • Malus
    replied
    Originally posted by Korogra View Post

    Do all spirits have Influence: Latin? No. The rules that apply to human languages logically would apply to spirits too.

    And I would... but I'm on my phone and don't have access to my copy of Demon, and while I don't have the Devs insight, I'm pretty sure they would possibly agree with me and nofather.
    Not all people speak Chinese either. What's the metric?

    Leave a comment:


  • Korogra
    replied
    Originally posted by Malus View Post

    You're telling me that a spirit born off the notion of latin (which knew about it before having the presence of mind to speak first tongue) doesn't counts as a native? Alright then.




    Not even Demons know how it works. Last I checked you didn't commanded the Word of God, and if so, provide a quote.
    Do all spirits have Influence: Latin? No. The rules that apply to human languages logically would apply to spirits too.

    And I would... but I'm on my phone and don't have access to my copy of Demon, and while I don't have the Devs insight, I'm pretty sure they would possibly agree with me and nofather.

    Leave a comment:


  • Story Letter
    replied
    Originally posted by Malus View Post
    Pardon the off-topic, but the notion of spirits somehow counting to the population needed for Unchained to dominate a particular language, then they'd be able to speak dead tongues too. I find it difficult to believe that no law or knowledge spirit can't speak fluent Latin.

    I think that it has to do with the anthropo-centric character of all the WoD games, if it doesn't get on well with your campaign mood you can adjust this issue accordingly and allow other kinds of populations, like spirits or Fae, to make the logistic of a demon to add their language-es to their data store.
    But they should first have a first-hand experience with such encounters and take a note that there are indeed enough people out there who use the language, more like a nation, rather than like a Tolkien cult.
    Last edited by Story Letter; 06-28-2017, 04:27 PM.

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  • Malus
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post

    I think it has to be a native tongue. First Tongue is the native language of spirits. There are people and spirits who can speak Latin but it's no one's native tongue.
    You're telling me that a spirit born off the notion of latin (which knew about it before having the presence of mind to speak first tongue) doesn't counts as a native? Alright then.


    Originally posted by Korogra View Post

    While that's a good point, sadly the Demons quantum linguistics program-power thing doesn't work that way, since a spirit of Latin would be like people who know Klingon, there might be a good number of them, but they do not count where this quirk of occult science is concerned.
    Not even Demons know how it works. Last I checked you didn't commanded the Word of God, and if so, provide a quote.

    Leave a comment:


  • Korogra
    replied
    Originally posted by Malus View Post
    Pardon the off-topic, but the notion of spirits somehow counting to the population needed for Unchained to dominate a particular language, then they'd be able to speak dead tongues too. I find it difficult to believe that no law or knowledge spirit can't speak fluent Latin.
    While that's a good point, sadly the Demons quantum linguistics program-power thing doesn't work that way, since a spirit of Latin would be like people who know Klingon, there might be a good number of them, but they do not count where this quirk of occult science is concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Malus View Post
    Pardon the off-topic, but the notion of spirits somehow counting to the population needed for Unchained to dominate a particular language, then they'd be able to speak dead tongues too. I find it difficult to believe that no law or knowledge spirit can't speak fluent Latin.
    I think it has to be a native tongue. First Tongue is the native language of spirits. There are people and spirits who can speak Latin but it's no one's native tongue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Malus
    replied
    Pardon the off-topic, but the notion of spirits somehow counting to the population needed for Unchained to dominate a particular language, then they'd be able to speak dead tongues too. I find it difficult to believe that no law or knowledge spirit can't speak fluent Latin.

    Leave a comment:


  • Story Letter
    replied
    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    a garou from Apocalypse, but close enough.
    More like Masquerade lupine, a least he has an earring on his left eyebrow.

    Leave a comment:

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