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Wolfblooded and Supernatural Merits

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  • Wolfblooded and Supernatural Merits

    Does it detail anywhere if Wolfblooded characters retain access to Supernatural merits? I'm looking all over for it, but I can't see to find it. I guess also ghouls and proximi too..

  • #2
    Technically, RAW, they'd lose them, as ghouls and proximi do. P56, Chronicles of Darkness, 'These Merits require the character remain human (non-supernatural.) If the character becomes a vampire, ghoul, mage, or any other supernatural character type, these Merits disappear. '

    But as far as I know most people tend to let the 'minor' templates like Wolf-blooded, ghouls and proximi keep the Merits.

    There's always the Sanctity of Merits, so buying them at character creation isn't a complete loss if your character changes later.
    Last edited by nofather; 07-11-2017, 04:44 PM.

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    • #3
      Generally it seems fair to let minor splats keep supernatural merits. Your table may vary, depending on the character and specific merits involved, but the "generally" is because even mortals with a few tricks are still desperately outclassed by full-splat characters. Their lives as PCs are likely to be brutish and short, so throwing a bone for group balance is kind and probably wise.

      Now exceptions: if said supernatural merit provides the character with direct access to a featured splat's bane, then that would give me pause. E.g. pyrokinesis on a ghoul, or the ability to transmute things to silver on a wolf-blood. As a Storyteller-protection tool, the RAW are wise and appropriate; always easier to relax than tighten.

      --Khanwulf

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      • #4
        The section on ghouls in VtR core does specify that they lose all Supernatural Merits they might've had. And promptly ignored by us, just like the ban on Scales.


        Bloodline: The Stygians
        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tessie View Post
          The section on ghouls in VtR core does specify that they lose all Supernatural Merits they might've had. And promptly ignored by us, just like the ban on Scales.
          The ban on scales? What does that mean.

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          • #6
            In general, I typically disregard the no supernatural merits to a degree. Like, I'll allow a vampire or wolf-blooded to keep something like Medium, but a vampire isn't getting something like pyrokinesis unless they have that Zirnitra coil. Wolf-blooded can also get access to Pack Rites, so keep that in mind.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
              The ban on scales? What does that mean.
              Ghouls aren't allowed to learn Scales of the Dragon. Since we realized there's nothing about Scales in general that requires the user to be a vampire we allow everyone to learn Scales. Many Scales does involve vampires in some way, but since the base for most Scales is just alchemy a human should be able to perform them for a vampire.
              Of course, they have to learn them at a disadvantage since only vampires can learn the Coils and get the XP discount on Scales.

              Edit: The other disadvantage would be the lack of teachers. Scales are made by vampires for vampires and non-vampires can't advance above the rank of Slave within the Ordo Dracul.
              Last edited by Tessie; 07-11-2017, 07:33 PM.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                Ghouls aren't allowed to learn Scales of the Dragon. Since we realized there's nothing about Scales in general that requires the user to be a vampire we allow everyone to learn Scales. Many Scales does involve vampires in some way, but since the base for most Scales is just alchemy a human should be able to perform them for a vampire.
                Of course, they have to learn them at a disadvantage since only vampires can learn the Coils and get the XP discount on Scales.

                Edit: The other disadvantage would be the lack of teachers. Scales are made by vampires for vampires and non-vampires can't advance above the rank of Slave within the Ordo Dracul.
                Ah, okay. I never really though about ghouls using scales of the dragon to be honest. I always figured you at least had to have a dot in the coil to learn a scale from it.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
                  I always figured you at least had to have a dot in the coil to learn a scale from it.
                  They do, but homebrew allows for anything.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
                    In general, I typically disregard the no supernatural merits to a degree. Like, I'll allow a vampire or wolf-blooded to keep something like Medium, but a vampire isn't getting something like pyrokinesis unless they have that Zirnitra coil. Wolf-blooded can also get access to Pack Rites, so keep that in mind.
                    Yes, however the complication for Wolf-blooded is access to essence, which can be tricky. I think it's even possible for them to gain renown, but I could be (very) wrong.

                    Generally the tricky bit for mortals of all flavors is their supernatural power source is either extremely limited or their Willpower pool (for Merits). I don't know of anything that lets a mortal (Ghoul, Wolf-blooded, whatever) translate Willpower into another resource. I suppose that could be homebrewed easily enough, however.

                    --Khanwulf

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                    • #11
                      Rites don't use Essence, just time.
                      Last edited by nofather; 07-11-2017, 11:37 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                        Yes, however the complication for Wolf-blooded is access to essence, which can be tricky. I think it's even possible for them to gain renown, but I could be (very) wrong.

                        Generally the tricky bit for mortals of all flavors is their supernatural power source is either extremely limited or their Willpower pool (for Merits). I don't know of anything that lets a mortal (Ghoul, Wolf-blooded, whatever) translate Willpower into another resource. I suppose that could be homebrewed easily enough, however.

                        --Khanwulf
                        In the Pack supplement there is a merit that lets a group of wolf-blooded or normal humans power spirit gifts and the like using willpower points.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nofather View Post

                          They do, but homebrew allows for anything.
                          [Citation needed]
                          All I can find is that meeting the prerequisite Coil tier grants you an XP discount. That's it.


                          Bloodline: The Stygians
                          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                          Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                          • #14
                            In general, I don't allow it, but that's simply a quesiton of theme. Wolf blooded walking around with telekinesis and Lost Boy tech just doesn't fit into the overall animistic vibe of Werewolf, I think. Now, if an argument was made for specific powers that resonate within the gameline? And doesn't overlap with an existing ability wolf-bloods have access to? I'd give it due consideration, but my default is "no."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                              [Citation needed]
                              All I can find is that meeting the prerequisite Coil tier grants you an XP discount. That's it.
                              I'm sorry you're right, I read that bit in the Scales wrong. The Ordo's never really appealed to me the way it does to a lot of people, I'd say it's one of the fan favorites.

                              Still, in the ghouls section on p297 there's this, 'Learning Disciplines: Ghouls may learn Disciplines under the same rules as Kindred. They may not learn Coils or Scales of the Dragon.'

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