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Vampires vs. Werewolves!

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  • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    Ghoul thing wouldn't work, anyway. They're not immune to lunacy, so werewolves have a few ways to make them shit themselves and scatter.

    Except that Lunacy kicks in after the encounter.

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    • Originally posted by Poseur View Post
      Except that Lunacy kicks in after the encounter.
      Lunacy can kick in after the encounter. It can kick in immediately, as well.

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      • The problem with vampires vs. werewolves is that the outcome changes based on xp levels.
        A starting werewolf will most likely defeat a starting vampire, in mid-level it's equal, and at high end the vampire wins. If the vampire somehow neutralizes Gauru (such as by going invisible and outlasting the timer, or simply staying out of reach), the vampire wins from mid-level onward.

        The problems really arise in that vampires have some nice things that scale with blood potency. Those are Frenzy benefits (increased by going Wyrm-Ordo), and vitae expenditure. These two combined will mean that a vampire can get high enough of a dice pool to take out the Uratha with relative ease. Vampires can also benefit from using large weapons, unlike the Uratha, whose damage increase ability is tied to their natural weapons. Vampires also have a few benefits that the Uratha lack. Such as a power to increase defence (two, if Wyrm-Ordo). If it's a group fight, the Uratha suffer as well, since their damage reduction power (Rage - Glory, Berserker's Might) only stops one instance of damage, whereas Resilience stops more, and works on all sources.

        For great defensive powers, the Uratha have cost on their side, but vampires have power and utility. Juggernaut's Gait is expensive, but it is complete immunity to damage, and as long as one can afford the great cost, it's use is unlimited. Gauru on the other hand has fantastic healing, but it does nothing to handle extreme amounts of damage. It is also limited in it's use. It has one burst, that lasts a few rounds. If the vampire can last that long, the fight is theirs. Kuruth on the other hand takes away the utility of the other shapes, which means that the werewolf is forced to rely on a single (though strong) path to victory.

        Gift of Elements (Purity) is a great counter for vampires, but Claws of the Unholy on the other hand are a great counter for everything.

        And honestly. I see no problem with this. Werewolves counter their weakness by being parts of packs who work well together. Vampires tend to get more and more lonely and mistrustful as they age, and won't really have anyone to rely on to watch their backs in combat. So yeah, werewolves lose one-on-one, but they rarely fight one-on-one either.

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        • Originally posted by Seidmadr View Post
          The problem with vampires vs. werewolves is that the outcome changes based on xp levels.
          But also time of day. I'd argue this has a much bigger impact.

          I mean, if a human can sneak into a vampire's lair and kill them while they sleep, a werewolf can do it.

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          • Originally posted by nofather View Post
            I mean, if a human can sneak into a vampire's lair and kill them while they sleep, a werewolf can do it.
            Far more easily, in fact.

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