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Claiming a creature with a template, possible?

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  • Claiming a creature with a template, possible?

    Greetings,


    I am confused with the possession and claiming rules, can a spirit possess or claim a supernatural creature like a werewolf (who are part spirit), or vampires, mages, prometheans?

  • #2
    Yes unless the template is specifically immune to possession.


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      Yes unless the template is specifically immune to possession.
      Thanks for the answer. Is any major (or minor) template immune to possession/claiming?
      Last edited by lbeaumanior; 07-20-2017, 11:28 PM.

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      • #4
        I swore Beasts did, maybe it was removed during the revamp. I can't think of any other offhand. There's obviously resistances and ways to prevent it but none are permanent.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nofather View Post
          I swore Beasts did, maybe it was removed during the revamp. I can't think of any other offhand. There's obviously resistances and ways to prevent it but none are permanent.
          Mummies are explicitly immune to possession, being basically made of necromancy.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post

            Thanks for the answer. Is any major (or minor) template immune to possession/claiming?

            I think the Purified and maybe Visitors were immune? Not sure on this one, though, unlike mummies which Satchel already mentioned.


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              Mummies are explicitly immune to possession, being basically made of necromancy.
              Okay. A weird one, though, as Mummy's first edition, and in first edition Claiming couldn't be done to things with supernatural templates and Possession had similar limitations.

              You don't think they'll change it in second, I take it?

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              • #8
                Outside mechanics, mummies and Beasts do have the best in-universe excuse for being immune to possession, one's souls being direct possessions of ancient gods and the other's souls being an active creature on its own.

                EDIT: Adding the Bound to the list, since a minor death-god is acting as substitute souls for them.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Outside mechanics, mummies and Beasts do have the best in-universe excuse for being immune to possession, one's souls being direct possessions of ancient gods and the other's souls being an active creature on its own.

                  EDIT: Adding the Bound to the list, since a minor death-god is acting as substitute souls for them.
                  Probably shouldn't stop Possession, which has nothing to do with a soul. It's 'just' controlling the body, or object in the case of an object.

                  Claiming might be different, or penalized, but wouldn't necessarily be prevented. It merges with the host's soul, if that soul is something weird, you'll get something weirder out of it. We already have things from the Inferno that have shown that ephemeral entities are not immune to being changed by others.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nofather View Post

                    Probably shouldn't stop Possession, which has nothing to do with a soul. It's 'just' controlling the body, or object in the case of an object.
                    Coming from Mage, I assumed possession had to do with souls (the Inviolate Soul Attainment). Granted, this is Werewolf, but still.

                    Claiming might be different, or penalized, but wouldn't necessarily be prevented. It merges with the host's soul, if that soul is something weird, you'll get something weirder out of it. We already have things from the Inferno that have shown that ephemeral entities are not immune to being changed by others.
                    Good point in getting something weirder, instead of a simple "No" or "Yes" to edge cases like this.


                    EDIT: Come to think of it, did we get any details on becoming a spirit-Lich, other than mentions of possible Legacies that do that? Becoming Claimed and then subverting control from the spirit, essentially reverse-Claiming the spirit, could be a possible venue of Lichdom.
                    Last edited by 21C Hermit; 07-21-2017, 01:44 AM.


                    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                      EDIT: Come to think of it, did we get any details on becoming a spirit-Lich, other than mentions of possible Legacies that do that? Becoming Claimed and then subverting control from the spirit, essentially reverse-Claiming the spirit, could be a possible venue of Lichdom.
                      I think that's basically the Purified. You could probably make a nastier version using Skinchangers, however, donning a spirit's 'skin' until it merges with you or stops working and you need to get a new one.

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                      • #12
                        You could probably accomplish something similar by moving some or all of your soul external to the body, and then letting it get claimed while exercising magic (true magic would be easiest).

                        --Khanwulf

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                        • #13
                          To get back on topic, generally yes, basic templates like vampires, werewolves, mages and changelings can be possessed and claimed.

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                          • #14
                            What Malus said...

                            I recently ran a game where a Claimed subplot became the focus of the game for a while. I had a player that was stuck in the "D&D" mindset of "there must be a clear answer here." He had no desire to question anything (he was easily manipulated by NPCs) or if there was something larger going on. So, I had a bit of fun...

                            A serial killer who was being urged by a Death spirit (Rank 2) was taken down rather easy by the pack (they never caught on, however, that there was a spirit involved--they just thought the human was sick). I bent/broke some rules (my prerogative as the ST) and the Death spirit slowly started to Claim the target character. In any situation where the influence of "death" could be felt, I'd offer the character a "permanent" dot in an appropriate stat as long as he'd do what I'd ask of him (e.g., the remaining two gangers have surrendered, but I'll give you a dot of Strength if you finish them off). It got to the point where I'd given him a total of seven dots spread over several attributes before he or the pack began questioning what was going on. If the number of dots given to the character ever got to the total dots of the spirit's attributes, he would have been completely Claimed.

                            Fortunately, it never actually got that far...though the character did end up going nuts through the spirit's influence. It ended when the character was rampaging through police and civilians because the spirit had convinced him that they were all members of the gang he had a beef with. The pack eventually used the Rite that normally only allows the separation of an Urging spirit from its victim (sorry, I don't remember the name of the Rite). The Rite does specifically state that it does not work on the Claimed, but I allowed it as a plot vehicle for a final spiritual showdown between the target character and the spirit Claiming him.

                            Once the pack was able to enact the ritual successfully (and that was close, 'cause he was going after the rite masters while the rest of the pack was doing their best to either immobilize him or just keep him away from the ritemasters), I then had the target character fight the spirit in his mind. The spirit had all its normal attribute dots, but the target character was relegated to his normal stats, penalized by the number of dots in those stats he'd been given in the process of Claiming (e.g., the character had a 4 strength in hishu, but because he's been given 3 dots by the spirit, his effective strength was now a 1 in hishu). This made the fight HARD for the werewolf, but he managed to deduce the spirit's ban and use it against it.

                            Overall, a good story and the character earned a deed name out of it!

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                            • #15
                              I remember the Blood Tenebrous discipline from Book of Spirits had a modified Claiming as the final power; the vampire had far more autonomy than was usual in the situation, and either party could end the claiming at any time. However, they both had to work together to actually get anything done.

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