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[2E] Creating Hosts from the ground up

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  • [2E] Creating Hosts from the ground up

    It's possible I'm just completely blind and can't find it in the 2E WtF book, but are there rules for building Hosts? If not, is everyone just using/adapting the info from Predators [1E]?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    It's a bit of both, but there are basic rules for statting out Shartha. I relied entirely on 2nd Ed rules ( plus a little home brewing to give the Shartha a Shadow Potency esque Power Stat )

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    • #3
      As one that made like 4 or 5 Hosts using Predators, I can't understate my fondness for that book or Shartha, but nowadays I go for 2E rules. The last one I made, the Bat Host, are 2E and I gotta admit it simplifies things while not taking away much and, if I ever manage to keep my word, I'm gonna rework the others into 2E as well.

      The suggestion I can give you is to look at modular powers across the books (like the Horror rules in the book) and take them as basis. For all my efforts and delusions, I won't hide the fact it's easier than it seems. The structure of evolution of metamorphosis of Predators is still valuable and I always keep it in mind

      (The homebrew to give them a Shadow Potency esque Power Stat is totally a good idea, by the way. I always considered the Shartha "almost shapechangers" and it fits)
      Last edited by Cinder; 08-13-2017, 11:45 AM.


      Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

      I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

      This is what I'm working on

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cinder View Post
        As one that made like 4 or 5 Hosts using Predators, I can't understate my fondness for that book or Shartha, but nowadays I go for 2E rules. The last one I made, the Bat Host, are 2E and I gotta admit it simplifies things while not taking away much and, if I ever manage to keep my word, I'm gonna rework the others into 2E as well.

        The suggestion I can give you is to look at modular powers across the books (like the Horror rules in the book) and take them as basis. For all my efforts and delusions, I won't hide the fact it's easier than it seems. The structure of evolution of metamorphosis of Predators is still valuable and I always keep it in mind

        (The homebrew to give them a Shadow Potency esque Power Stat is totally a good idea, by the way. I always considered the Shartha "almost shapechangers" and it fits)
        Agreed, though I will say I was more than a little disappointed with how the Shartha seemed to lost a mechanical method of actually infestating them in true Spirit Host fashion regarding Aspect/ Dread Powers. I guess they use Manifestations now like ephemeral beings.. but that sort of sucks and I don't like it.

        Yeah, the Hosts ability to mutate and evolve is something I keep with my Shartha too. That reminds me, I never got your thoughts on the Host I made, I want to hear what the Shartha Guru has to say on them xD

        ( And yeah, I call it Cohesion to reflect their ever growing progress to being " Whole")
        Last edited by Korogra; 08-14-2017, 03:20 PM.

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        • #5
          Shartha weren't ephemeral beings to begin with. They're physical entities, from rat or spider form all the way to giant rat or giant spider form. So they get Dread Powers, which are very versatile.

          We could certainly use more information regarding antagonists but the powers that be seem to turn a blind eye to Forsaken.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Korogra View Post

            Yeah, the Hosts ability to mutate and evolve is something I keep with my Shartha too. That reminds me, I never got your thoughts on the Host I made, I want to hear what the Shartha Guru has to say on them xD
            Probably happened when I took a long hiatus from the forums some time ago. I forced myself to stop being a lurker just recently, but I don't remember reading them indeed or throwing it a like as I'd probably would have done if that was the case.

            Can you give me a link to the thread? Would not call myself the Shartha Guru, but I sure am willing to give you an opinion


            Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

            I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

            This is what I'm working on

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cinder View Post
              Probably happened when I took a long hiatus from the forums some time ago. I forced myself to stop being a lurker just recently, but I don't remember reading them indeed or throwing it a like as I'd probably would have done if that was the case.

              Can you give me a link to the thread? Would not call myself the Shartha Guru, but I sure am willing to give you an opinion
              No problem, it happens. Anyway, here it is; perhaps you'll take a liking to them xD

              http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...u-the-ant-host

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Korogra View Post

                No problem, it happens. Anyway, here it is; perhaps you'll take a liking to them xD

                http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...u-the-ant-host
                So I, uh, may have gone a little overboard. Your work on the Ant Host and the concept of Cohesion inspired me, and I pumped out this monstrosity. I'm still on the fence about whether I want Shartha to use "proper" Manifestations or just redo a couple appropriate Manifestations as Dread Powers and have done with it. Shards need to be able to infest host bodies somehow after all. I'm also wobbling on whether consuming someone for Essence just does straight Lethal damage or does Aggravated damage like when a werewolf does it.

                *****

                Shattered Gods- The Hosts

                Remnants of ancient gods slain by Father Wolf for trespassing in the Flesh instead of remaining in the Border Marches, the Hosts gestated out of spilled divine ichor and decaying ephemeral flesh. Along with the Uratha, they are all that remains of lost Pangaea, but the Hosts are verminous and unintended side effects of a god’s death, whereas the Uratha are intentional creations of two gods. The Hosts are represented with a modified version of the Ephemeral Being rules.

                Cohesion Trait Max Attributes Essence/Turn Dread Powers Manifestations
                1 5 4-6 10/1 1-3 2
                2 5 6-8 11/2 1-3 2
                3 7 9-12 12/3 3-5 3
                4 7 11-14 13/4 3-5 3
                5 9 15-20 15/5 5-7 4
                6 9 20-25 20/6 5-7 4
                7 12 26-31 25/7 7-9 5
                8 12 30-35 30/8 7-9 5
                9 15 36-41 50/10 9-11 6
                10 15 40-45 75/15 9-11 6

                Verminous Swarm: The Hosts slowly accumulate around themselves swarms of potential vessels for the essence of their Pangaean progenitor, presenting as a Swarm (as per the Swarm Tilt) with a radius equal to Cohesion. In this form, Attributes are only really relevant for the use of Dread Powers that require them, Social or Mental rolls, Clash of Wills, and grappling opponents. The Host shard is treated as possessing Health equal to Resistance + Cohesion.

                Willpower: The Shartha do not possess Anchors like a Virtue or Vice. Instead, like a Spirit, they regain a point of Willpower for every three points of Essence they gain. They can also regain Willpower through rest.

                Regaining Essence: The Hosts can regain Essence through a Locus, but also through consuming the flesh of humans, werewolves, and other Hosts at a rate of one point per Lethal Damage.

                Devouring: When killing (and eating) a character with their natural weaponry the Host spends a point of Willpower and rolls Strength + Resolve (Power + Resistance if in Swarm form). When they run out of Willpower, or achieve successes equal to the other character’s Cohesion/Primal Urge (a Host can generally only consume another Host of the same type or a Werewolf). If successful, the devourer gains one Experience per dot of Cohesion/Primal Urge. They also gain a new Dread Power or an Attribute dot.

                Manifestations: Host cannot possess the Twilight Form Manifestation, as they are solid beings. All Hosts start with the Discorporation and Possess Manifestation, using the Claim Manifestation to become the dreaded Shartha Hybrids.
                Last edited by Arcanist; 08-20-2017, 05:04 PM.


                My Homebrew Hub

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cinder View Post
                  As one that made like 4 or 5 Hosts using Predators, I can't understate my fondness for that book or Shartha, but nowadays I go for 2E rules. The last one I made, the Bat Host, are 2E and I gotta admit it simplifies things while not taking away much and, if I ever manage to keep my word, I'm gonna rework the others into 2E as well.
                  Kinda confused here, what rules for creating Host? I am looking at the 2nd Forsaken Core and the only thing i can find is a 2 NPC examples.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LokiRavenSpeak View Post
                    Kinda confused here, what rules for creating Host? I am looking at the 2nd Forsaken Core and the only thing i can find is a 2 NPC examples.
                    It's on page 203, on the right side, bottom half.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Arcanist View Post

                      So I, uh, may have gone a little overboard. Your work on the Ant Host and the concept of Cohesion inspired me, and I pumped out this monstrosity. I'm still on the fence about whether I want Shartha to use "proper" Manifestations or just redo a couple appropriate Manifestations as Dread Powers and have done with it. Shards need to be able to infest host bodies somehow after all. I'm also wobbling on whether consuming someone for Essence just does straight Lethal damage or does Aggravated damage like when a werewolf does it.

                      *****

                      Shattered Gods- The Hosts

                      Remnants of ancient gods slain by Father Wolf for trespassing in the Flesh instead of remaining in the Border Marches, the Hosts gestated out of spilled divine ichor and decaying ephemeral flesh. Along with the Uratha, they are all that remains of lost Pangaea, but the Hosts are verminous and unintended side effects of a god’s death, whereas the Uratha are intentional creations of two gods. The Hosts are represented with a modified version of the Ephemeral Being rules.

                      Cohesion Trait Max Attributes Essence/Turn Dread Powers Manifestations
                      1 5 4-6 10/1 1-3 2
                      2 5 6-8 11/2 1-3 2
                      3 7 9-12 12/3 3-5 3
                      4 7 11-14 13/4 3-5 3
                      5 9 15-20 15/5 5-7 4
                      6 9 20-25 20/6 5-7 4
                      7 12 26-31 25/7 7-9 5
                      8 12 30-35 30/8 7-9 5
                      9 15 36-41 50/10 9-11 6
                      10 15 40-45 75/15 9-11 6

                      Verminous Swarm: The Hosts slowly accumulate around themselves swarms of potential vessels for the essence of their Pangaean progenitor, presenting as a Swarm (as per the Swarm Tilt) with a radius equal to Cohesion. In this form, Attributes are only really relevant for the use of Dread Powers that require them, Social or Mental rolls, Clash of Wills, and grappling opponents. The Host shard is treated as possessing Health equal to Resistance + Cohesion.

                      Willpower: The Shartha do not possess Anchors like a Virtue or Vice. Instead, like a Spirit, they regain a point of Willpower for every three points of Essence they gain. They can also regain Willpower through rest.

                      Regaining Essence: The Hosts can regain Essence through a Locus, but also through consuming the flesh of humans, werewolves, and other Hosts at a rate of one point per Lethal Damage.

                      Devouring: When killing (and eating) a character with their natural weaponry the Host spends a point of Willpower and rolls Strength + Resolve (Power + Resistance if in Swarm form). When they run out of Willpower, or achieve successes equal to the other character’s Cohesion/Primal Urge (a Host can generally only consume another Host of the same type or a Werewolf). If successful, the devourer gains one Experience per dot of Cohesion/Primal Urge. They also gain a new Dread Power or an Attribute dot.

                      Manifestations: Host cannot possess the Twilight Form Manifestation, as they are solid beings. All Hosts start with the Discorporation and Possess Manifestation, using the Claim Manifestation to become the dreaded Shartha Hybrids.
                      Very well done! I'm glad my little pet project someone to make such a useful table for these mechanics. I don't know about anyone else, but I would definitely use this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Korogra View Post
                        Very well done! I'm glad my little pet project someone to make such a useful table for these mechanics. I don't know about anyone else, but I would definitely use this.
                        Thank-you! High praise! Any suggestions as to whether the Hosts should be able to inflict Aggravated Damage by feeding for Essence? Also, nifty little thing they can do with the mechanics. If a Host in Swarm Form grapples a werewolf, condenses in on them, and manages to keep hold, they could conceivably make it easy-ish to kill them, especially since the average werewolf has no way to harm a Swarm. Also, if they choose to inflict harm while Grappling, then they can theoretically overwhelm a werewolf quickly enough.


                        My Homebrew Hub

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                        • #13
                          Instead of Cohesive I would simply use (CoD Rulebook) Horror's Potency or Rank as name for Hosts Power Stat, but that's me.

                          To help dot those Hosts, we made with Mr Gone - a while ago - Predators sheet for 2E, for running Urged and Hosts with it especially. Maybe handy - or may need some changes by you.

                          https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/p...nteractive.pdf


                          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                          LGBT+ through Ages
                          LGBT+ in CoD games

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                          • #14
                            As I running now story about Beshilu in modern Sweden - Maybe we could recreate those with above fan rules? In 2E corebook there is only write-up for Red Minister, sadly, even if book mentions few other monsters in Beshilu Nests:

                            Originally posted by WtF 2E, p. 203
                            Watch out for the Ministers. They’re like Beshilu alphas or royalty, the high priests of rat-kind. They’re crazy but they’re smart, and they’ve got some sort of ability to fuck with other shards too — not just eating them, but chewing them up and spitting them out. That’s why we keep seeing all sorts of freaky new Beshilu like those tank-sized tunnellers, and the vomit-spitters the Bright Lights ran into last week. The Ministers are walking, talking manifestations of the worst horror stories of GMO bullshit.
                            So let's write up classical Rat Swarm, those Tunnellers and Vomit-Spitters. Also, from Predators book, we have those...

                            Gnawers: Beshilu in their still-formative rat stages - mostly human govern by one to few Host Shards.

                            Rokhan: Evolved Beshilu, perhaps fused with human hosts.

                            How many Cohesion would have those? I probably see something like this:

                            Cohesion 1-3: Gnawer
                            Cohesion
                            4-6: Rokhan
                            Cohesion 7+ : Minister

                            Tunnellers
                            and Vomit-Spitters, as alternative 'evolutions', would probably be at Cohesion 4-6, probably?

                            Simple Rat Swarm would only have Cohesion and Verminous Swarm Power?
                            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-09-2017, 03:11 AM.


                            My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                            LGBT+ through Ages
                            LGBT+ in CoD games

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              As I running now story about Beshilu in modern Sweden - Maybe we could recreate those with above fan rules? In 2E corebook there is only write-up for Red Minister, sadly, even if book mentions few other monsters in Beshilu Nests:



                              So let's write up classical Rat Swarm, those Tunnellers and Vomit-Spitters. Also, from Predators book, we have those...

                              Gnawers: Beshilu in their still-formative rat stages - mostly human govern by one to few Host Shards.

                              Rokhan: Evolved Beshilu, perhaps fused with human hosts.

                              How many Cohesion would have those? I probably see something like this:

                              Cohesion 1-3: Gnawer
                              Cohesion
                              4-6: Rokhan
                              Cohesion 7+ : Red Minister

                              Tunnellers
                              and Vomit-Spitters, as alternative 'evolutions', would probably be at Cohesion 4-6, probably?

                              Simple Rat Swarm would only have Cohesion and Verminous Swarm Power?
                              Very nice, though I have a minor nitpick; not all the Ministers are called Red Minister. Unless I misunderstood and you were just giving Red Minister a Conhesion score, and I'm sorry

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