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[2E] Idigam questions

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  • #31
    Two questions that comes from my preparing Idigam plot in the game in servants section:

    1. Is there a way to sense Idigam Herold amidst typical humans group? Are Uratha in the way to say 'Aha, you are a spy to the Idigam!'? I just want to check.
    2. How does - exactly - Numina for Dread Powers exchange works for the Idigam Spawn? Wording of the 2E corebook seems to indicate that Spawn pays all his Numina for only one Dread Power - that seems... unprofitable in any way for him - as Dread Powers are kinda of Numina...

    Originally posted by 'WtF 2E, p.221'
    A spawn follows the usual rules for a spirit with the following exceptions:
    • It can only have Influences that the idigam possesses.
    • Its ban and bane are the same as the idigam.
    • It may replace all of its Numina with a single Dread Power that the idigam possesses.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      1. Is there a way to sense Idigam Herold amidst typical humans group? Are Uratha in the way to say 'Aha, you are a spy to the Idigam!'? I just want to check.
      Scent the Unnatural allows you to pick out a supernatural creature from a bunch of normal humans.
      2. How does - exactly - Numina for Dread Powers exchange works for the Idigam Spawn? Wording of the 2E corebook seems to indicate that Spawn pays all his Numina for only one Dread Power - that seems... unprofitable in any way for him - as Dread Powers are kinda of Numina...
      A Rank 1 Spawn is trading one to three Numina for things like warping reality within a mile or summoning void spirits or turning a small neighborhood's spirits into unwitting lookouts. Idigam Dread Powers are weird in a way that Numina seldom are.


      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        Scent the Unnatural allows you to pick out a supernatural creature from a bunch of normal humans.
        A Rank 1 Spawn is trading one to three Numina for things like warping reality within a mile or summoning void spirits or turning a small neighborhood's spirits into unwitting lookouts. Idigam Dread Powers are weird in a way that Numina seldom are.
        I think that more fair would be for Spawn to trade all Numina for one Dread Power per Rank of it. Spanws can easily have Rank 3 or 4, so losing all their possible Numina - 7 or 9 max, respectively - seems to harsh for only one Dread Power.


        My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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        • #34
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          I think that more fair would be for Spawn to trade all Numina for one Dread Power per Rank of it. Spanws can easily have Rank 3 or 4, so losing all their possible Numina - 7 or 9 max, respectively - seems to harsh for only one Dread Power.
          They're miniature versions of the idigam, which gets between three and six Dread Powers on top of its Numina, and Dread Powers include things like "change any or all of your Influences" or "hide in the Gauntlet" or "become a burning environmental hazard."


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          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            They're miniature versions of the idigam, which gets between three and six Dread Powers on top of its Numina, and Dread Powers include things like "change any or all of your Influences" or "hide in the Gauntlet" or "become a burning environmental hazard."
            I do not get your point - they are minature version of Idigam, yes, but they have different powers. From the corebook section it seems to imply that Spawn have different powers than Idgiam - it can only have the same if she forsake all Numina for one of them.


            My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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            • #36
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              I do not get your point - they are minature version of Idigam, yes, but they have different powers. From the corebook section it seems to imply that Spawn have different powers than Idgiam - it can only have the same if she forsake all Numina for one of them.
              They have an identical ban and bane and their options for Influences and Dread Powers are specifically limited to the same powers the idigam has. It's thematically inappropriate for a spawn to have wildly different abilities from its creator, and if there's a Numina that you just have to have attached to a spawn then you don't have to trade in its Numina for it. If an idigam just wants access to a certain Numen then it has regular spirits to work with.

              In this context, Dread Powers aren't just Numina by a different name — they're the abilities borne by Hosts and Claimed and stranger things besides as marks of the weirdness of spiritual evolution.


              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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              • #37
                Idigam dread powers are also extremely potent.

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                • #38
                  Some question I got from plot idea I think of - Can Uratha summon Idigam? Technically, Idigam are 'just weird spirits', so they can or could answer to the powers that summon spirits, yes?

                  I think about scenario when taken to extreme Bale Hounds or Pure ( or in this instance, both are the same group ) would summon/awoken Earth - Bound Idigam that reside ( or was residing ) in their area to take care of their enemies - in my example, it's Fear of Scales.


                  My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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                  • #39
                    'Both Formless and Coalesced are immune to supernatural powers that would command them, master them, or reshape their abilities, whether from Gifts, rites, or the witchcraft of other beings.'

                    Most form of summoning, such as Shadowcall, use one of these.

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                    • #40
                      There's the summoning ritual in CofD that even regular mortals can use. It mostly makes the place more inhabitable for spirits (or other beings) by setting up the correct Manifestation Conditions so it's completely voluntary for the intended target to show up. That should work for Idigam, as long as the ritualists somehow manage to research its Influences. Would not work on Formless Idigam (or Soul Slaves) since they don't have any Influences and therefor can't be tagged to any Resonant Conditions.


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                      • #41
                        Pile a bunch of gold and princesses in the town square and hope a dragon comes.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by nofather View Post
                          Pile a bunch of gold and princesses in the town square and hope a dragon comes.
                          Well, they'd get SOMETHING with bait like that...

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                          • #43
                            Coalesced Idigam is still spirit of specific concepts, don't it? So it should answer to the things that spirits of particular concepts - on their own terms - can answer on.

                            Princess and gold can be nice Gathra ( bribes ) for Fear of Scales - but in the end, it's the Rite that is 'sending the call' for it. Going with that this particular Idigam was in the same location 1200 years later - it can go back to it. I think...


                            My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              Princess and gold can be nice Gathra ( bribes ) for Fear of Scales - but in the end, it's the Rite that is 'sending the call' for it. Going with that this particular Idigam was in the same location 1200 years later - it can go back to it. I think...
                              It's not actually a rite. You just make the Condition for the thing, and it might come on its own, sensing some nice Essence for itself. This is how the book explains it, it's entirely the spirit's choice to come or not. A problem is, as Seidmadr points out, other things might come. Which doesn't matter if you're looking for any spirit of a specific kind but obviously hinders a search for a specific entity.

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                              • #45
                                I immediately thought about Gagh-Azur when I saw this:

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