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  • Changes to 2e

    So mage is my primary game I really like the changes to 2e. I have W:tF 1e but have yet to get 2e. I'm curious if there is a thread or if those here more familiar with the 2e rule set could point out any major changes/updates to the rule set.

  • #2
    Oh boy, where to start?

    The game main focus is the Hunt. Everything, from the different shapes to the auspices to the Tribes and the Gifts and Rites work around the idea of the Hunt in one way or another.

    The shapes each have now a different extra ability that helps with its intended purpose, so you have a reason to use all and every one of them at some point: Hishu makes you incospicuous, Dalu is more menacing and lets you root out your prey away from their allies, Urshul can cripple the prey with Tilts, Urhan is the best at tracking and chases and Gauru is made for the kill.

    Tribes' ethos revolve (on top of the seen in 1st ed) around a particular type of Prey they consider the most important and sacred: Iron Masters deal with Humans and their institutions, Bone Shadows with Spirits, Hunters in Darkness with Sharta, Storm Lord with Claimed and Blood Talons with other Werewolves (mostly the Pure. Mostly)

    Gifts are clasified in 3 broad categories:

    Moon Gifts are exclusive of a given Auspice and make it better at its role. They progress from 1 to 5 dots and are all based on the Auspices Renown.

    Shadow Gifts are open to any werewolf, but some Auspices and Tribes have an easier time learning some of them. Each shadow Gift is broke down in 5 Facets, one for each Renown category. Each Facet provides a diferent power related to the concept of the Gift (say Strength or Death) viewed trough the lenses of the Renown, so for example, the Cunning Facet of Strength lets you break free from bindings,while the Purity one directly adds your Renown dots to your Strength Attribute.

    Finally Wolf Gifts are innate boost to the werewolves natural capabilities as a shapechanger predator. As with Shadow Gifts they have 5 different facets

    ‚ÄčThose are the main changes off the top of my head.

    EDIT: Damm, how could I forgot about the best change? Harmony is completely reworked and functions in a very unnusual way. Your aim is actually to remain at the even 5th dot, where you only have advantages. Go up towards 10 and you get imbalanced towards the Flesh side of your dual nature, getting cut off fron the spirit realm and finding shape changing difficult and painful. Go down towards 0 and you get imbalanced towards your spirit side, getting Bans like they do and struggling not to shift shape from turn to turn, mercurial as the Moon itself
    Last edited by Thorbes; 11-04-2017, 10:37 AM.


    I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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    • #3
      Just to add a couple details to the above:

      Forsaken 2e also reinforces the theme of The Wolf Must Hunt with a central thematic Rite, the Rite of the Sacred Hunt. A werewolf who knows how to lead the Rite can offer an additional benefit to the pack centering around their tribe's iconic hunt. The Sacred Hunt is treated as a bit more universal and meaningful to the Uratha's spiritual fulfillment than other Rites. (A werewolf gets two free dots of starting Rites on top of their normal Merit supply, which is enough to know the Sacred Hunt.)

      Each werewolf has a personal set of triggers which threaten to evoke the Death Rage. The further out of balance a werewolf's Harmony is, the more sensitive the trigger becomes, so for example, a werewolf with Harmony 5, perfectly balanced between flesh and spirit, might fly into Death Rage at the sound of a howling wolf during their auspice's lunar phase, while if that wolf were heavily imbalanced at Harmony 2 or 9, they might simply enter Death Rage whenever their auspice moon is in the night sky.

      Wolf-Blooded are heavily overhauled and given more attention. They're not purely hereditary, sometimes occurring at the capricious blessing of Mother Moon (who considers Lunacy a blessing, mind you), and each has their own supernatural Tell, which combines some occult benefit with an inextricable drawback. They're uncontrollable movie werewolves frenzied under the full moon, pairs of spirit-twins born across the divide between Flesh and Shadow, people followed by eerie signs of an intangible guardian wolf-pack, and unnaturally resilient fighters whose open wounds expose bloody fur underneath the skin.

      Forsaken 2e's mechanical reimagining doesn't go as far as Mage's Reach system and reformulated spellcasting, but the thematic refocus is strong.

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      • #4
        A few other important things that got changed:

        Packs - Packs are no longer just a small group of Uratha, but all of the Wolf-blooded, and even humans - possibly more even - bound together as one group. Werewolves are still the center of the pack, but packs are capable of a much greater diversity in concept and size. This leads to things like there being two main types of Rites: Wolf Rites which only benefit Uratha and can technically involve ones not in a pack together, and Pack Rites, which can aid any pack member but only aid pack members. There are even Wolf-Blooded Tells that let them enact Pack Rites without an Uratha (if one of your players wants to take a Wolf-Blooded instead on an Uratha, Totemic Empowerment is a great Pack Rite to let them get a boost towards them not lagging behind).

        Renown - It's not a big immediate thing, but the way Renown works (esp. as noted above in the way Gifts have been restructured) makes paying XP for Renown more rewarding and less gate-keeping. 1e Renown was unnecessarily costly, and you'd end up with Gifts you weren't good with, or spending XP, to be good at the Gifts you really want. Now going broad in your Renown picks, or deep into them, are both rewarding.

        Oath of the Moon - There's a few changes here. A big one for some people is that werewolf-on-werewolf sex is no longer forbidden and no longer creates horrible demon spirit-babies. Though the changes to a few dynamics with things like expanded packs and the focus on the Hunt lead to some subtle adjustments.

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        • #5
          Oh, also you only need to get a spirits help to get the first facet of a gift. After that the gift is considered "unlocked" and you can pick up the rest whenever you like.

          Wolf gifts don't even need to be unlocked.

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          • #6
            Lovable changes, must I say, as if changing to GMC rules were not very good on its own. I have one also to add that is important if not obvious: the meaning of the Hunt was greatly clarified. It isn't really distinct from what it was, but now the game makes it very clear without being very repetitive about the issue. And it is a broad concept, much more a way of thinking over things you set yourself to do than having to actually be a hunt.


            Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.

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            • #7
              Well, aside from what others have mention or expanding on them i gonna say.

              1) The whole "being a werewolf gives humans a vibe to stay away" is not a thing anymore. To the contrary, the more Primal urge a uratha, the more difficult is to know he is a uratha. On one hand that leaves the Wolf blooded role as liasons between the Uratha and Human society as irrelevant. However as other have mentioned it great deal of work has been made to integrate them to new roles into pack, with a variety of success. Also the former role was a holdover of Apocalypse.

              2) Renown is not very well explained how one gained. In 1st edition there was a rite to call down a Lune and for she to judge you. Now in 2nd that rite is gone and whether you gain renown by looking for a Lune and asking her to raise your renown or just beam of light descend from the heaven ala World of Warcraft is gonna depend on the DM.

              3) Now each tribe has a favored prey (something that is the tribe think is the ultimate prey) aside from their ideology. How both interact with each other (in conflict) is not yet revealed.

              4) No more shapeshifting roll (thank god) but also no more partial change (except with a specific gift).

              5) Gauru form is actually useful, instead of a barely there stat buff. Though be careful with down and dirty combat rule, in my experience is a badly designed rule.

              6) Aggravated is no longer given out like candy on Halloween. There is 1 rite that allows aggravated damage to be deal, otherwise is either Silver, overflow, bane of spirits or more rank than spirits.

              7) Social rites are gone (rite of apology, rite of burial, etc) which is good as it was a holdover from apocalypse and made 0 sense in Forsaken. Also rites arent a merit anymore and you can make up how your work and what attribute + skill to roll.

              9) Dont go throwing away your 1st Core just yet. Because as 2nd edition had to cover lot more ground than 1st (putting the Idigam in the spotlight and the basic rules) certain aspect are not covered very good. The Shadow chapter in 1st edition is way better than 2nd on the fluff side. Speaking of spirit, now they got ban and bane with former being an action that they have or cant do and the latter a substance that will harm them.

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              • #8
                Thanks this has been a great help.

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