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  • #16
    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
    Damn, if I’d only cared more about the city I live in, enough to write settings like that.
    Well, what city do you live in? I am sure there is something interesting.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by The young man in the cafe View Post

      Well, what city do you live in? I am sure there is something interesting.
      Seoul. Yes, there are interesting things. It’s just that I’m not well-versed in history and lore enough to weave something that’d be interesting for people who have nothing to do with the metropolis.

      But I do have a rough idea of what the Tribes of the Moon would be up to. I wrote this before knowing about protectorates being a thing, though, so it needs some refinement.




      The Uratha of the Korean peninsula have been historically identified with Mongolian descent ever since the Mongol invasions and Yuan domination, despite Wolf's blood having long existed in the lands. Legends of divine wolf-dogs who banish demons, and lore of fierce yacha (better known as yaksha) who both protect villages yet devour trespassers point to Uratha presence in the peninsula.

      Seoul is among the most industrialized cities in the world and hosts some of the more advanced forms of technology, especially with regards to communication and medicine. The Farsil Luhal are at home in this concrete jungle, finding no short of prey dressed up in fine suits. The children of Sagrim-Ur weave through both the dazzling streets and the disembodied web of the internet in harrying their prey. In fact, they seem to be literally everywhere in the city, and the Iron Masters have become the de facto ruling tribe of the Uratha in it.

      The Meninna are in contrast forced to adapt to the urban environment, outside their usual preference of the wilderness. While this by no means stops them from claiming mus-rah in the city's districts, the Hunters in Darkness find lesser and lesser recruits who agree with their ideology. The children of Hikaon-Ur face a variety of shartha bizarre even for their standards, starting from beshilu who can shapeshift into people who they've eaten clipped fingernails of, and sidalaaghu whose populations have grown alarmingly large in the recent years.

      The ecology of Seoul's Shadow is cluttered by spirits of artifice and devices, as well as those of emotions and concepts thanks to the dense population. If that was all there was, the Hirfathra Hissu wouldn't be so busy as they are now. The spirits of the dead also haunt the city's alleys in great numbers, and some of them are surprisingly old. The children of Kamduis-Ur wonder just what is enabling the ghosts to linger for so long and accrue power in the living lands, one theory pointing to a supposed gate to the Underworld agape somewhere in the city.

      The aforementioned surge of spirits result in nigh monthly waves of refuges from the Shadow who become duguthim, something the Iminir find challenging but simultaneously fulfilling. The children of Skolis-Ur have internalized the storm, and find challenges to overcome in all four seasons. Indeed, the Storm Lords wield a powerful form of mutable sorcery that comes from outside the Shadow, channeling the Four Seasons in a way the other werewolves find alien.

      Korea has a surprisingly high presence of the military throughout its territory, thanks to North Korea constantly looming over up in the north. Seoul also has several military troops stationed, which the Suthar Anzuth have deeply infiltrated. The children of Fenris-Ur were always army-like, but now they literally are one. While the other Uratha worry little about the perpetual violations of human rights prevalent in military service, they are concerned about just why the Blood Talons have become insular and retreated largely from Forsaken matters.
      Last edited by 21C Hermit; 12-08-2017, 11:16 PM. Reason: Typo


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      • #18
        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
        The aforementioned surge of spirits result in nigh monthly waves of refuges from the Shadow who become duguthim, something the Iminir find challenging but simultaneously fulfilling. The children of Skolis-Ur have internalized the storm, and find challenges to overcome in all four seasons. Indeed, the Storm Lords wield a powerful form of mutable sorcery that comes from outside the Shadow, channeling the Four Seasons in a way the other werewolves find alien.
        Wait, do not Lodge of Season is Hunter of Darkness Tribal Pillar?


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        • #19
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

          Wait, do not Lodge of Season is Hunter of Darkness Tribal Pillar?
          Strange, isn’t it? (grin)

          EDIT: Though I confess, the Lodge wasn’t in my mind when I wrote that. Now that you mention it, the Lodge of Seasons should indeed have a presence in the city...
          Last edited by 21C Hermit; 12-09-2017, 08:04 AM.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #20
            I've always been interested in Acrozatarim's settings, I consider them the prime example of what werewolf should be like, but also hard to replicate.

            One aspect of it is that his histories tend to revolve around Uratha or Uratha-oriented things and working dynamically from there (often incorporating big things, like Firstborn and the idigam like the one giving a hand to Zero Point, or the big spirits in Bristol), rather than having human history then tacking werewolf stuff to it. His werewolf NPCs are also pretty multifaceted and monstrous, rather than the good guys we see a lot (and I make). Not to talk as if he isn't here, but I'm just saying this for others. I've been trying to emulate it and it's been tough.
            Last edited by nofather; 12-09-2017, 01:40 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
              Simplest thing for me is probably to copy and paste the intro doc for the game, after we'd done a chargen session and figured out some of the core concepts that the players wanted to feature in the game:
              Wow, thanks for sharing all of that

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              • #22
                So, I was also going to talk a bit about my Hong Kong game, the Eater of Names Chronicle. A lot of the details about the setting and starting stuff are found here: https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Werew...Eater_Of_Names

                There's lots in there of relevance re history, the oddities of Hong Kong in occult and Uratha terms, and so forth. However, specifically in terms of protectorates and politics - the Hong Kong uratha don't have a protectorate per se, they have five 'Great Packs' - 3 Forsaken, 2 Pure - that work together on a sorta semi-formalised basis. It's a loose structure designed to keep pack activities within the customs and mores of the Hong Kong Uratha, defuse or ritualise violence between packs and factions, and generally manage the urban Uratha situation within the control of the Great Packs. From the write-up at the link (and with most detail on the Wen, because at the time this was last written up, the Wen were a) the patron Great Pack of the PC's own pack, and b) the main Great Pack they'd interacted with in general - but note there are a number more Wen members than are listed here):

                The five pillars of Hong Kong Uratha society, born from agreements forged in 1899 alongside those made between the British colony and the local Chinese Punti clans, are called the Great Packs. Originally, each pack corresponded to the same mortal clan that it took the name of, but in the modern day there is no major link between the Punti clan families and the make-up of the pack in question. Most of the Great Packs are large, powerful and have two tiers amongst their Uratha members. The lower tier of 'nieces' and 'nephews' operate somewhat more like a conventional pack, but the upper tier of 'aunts' and 'uncles' are, oddly, less tightly bound together. The aunts and uncles are mentors, experts, revered elders and the like who focus more on their own matters, loosely connected to the other aunts and uncles but not necessarily very involved in the day-to-day running of the pack's assets. When an aunt or uncle asks for a service, the nephews and nieces are expected to snap to attention, but they are in turn expected not to abuse this authority to any great extent. Each Great Pack has a different system for providing more concrete leadership; the Hou select a single overall leader so that the other upper tier Uratha don't need to be bothered by petty concerns, while the Tang demand regular meetings of their aunts and uncles to ensure co-ordination.
                The Great Packs are heavily tied into the occult fabric of Hong Kong, and possess considerable knowledge, influence and stockpiles of materials. A Lodge's leadership usually comes from Great Pack members. Each possesses an incredibly powerful totem spirit, but the nature of that relationship between pack and totem is closely guarded and outsiders suspect whatever agreement was signed in 1899 plays a heavy part.
                The Wen – Yau Tsim Mong

                Forsaken, mostly Hunters in Darkness and Iron Masters; their totem is the Serpent of Dreams and Bile, a spirit of incense, drugs and pollution. Known for their influence in shipping, narcotics, and their deep occult knowledge. The Wen have long been obsessed with hunting down the source of the Scourge, as they call the phenomenon that blights First Changes, and are known to truck with jiang shi, yao guai and other, stranger entities in their search for the truth.
                Wen Aunts/Uncles:
                • Yeung He, 'Lightning Paper Fan' - Iron Master Ithaeur. Yeung He is one of the principle uncles of the Wen, a wealthy Hong Kong businessman who serves as the Great Pack's principle face of its occult side.
                • Ten-Eyes Tsang - Storm Lord Ithaeur. Ten-Eyes is a drugs chemist and the principle responsible for the Wen drugs operation. Tsang is said to be a samzukwu or Three-Legged Crow, a member of the Lodge of Crows.
                Wen Nieces/Nephews:
                • Dantea Wen - Hunter in Darkness Elodoth. Dantea is one of the most trusted lower-rankers in the Wen, slated for promotion and thus access to the pack's extensive resources. She is the local representative of the Lodge of the Seven Venoms, and a trained doctor.
                • "Tightrope" Lei - Iron Master Irraka. Named for her habit of garroting prey, not for acrobatics.
                • "Hapless" Fung - Storm Lord Rahu. Possesses incredible luck and is said to be cursed.
                • "Pup" Sau - Iron Master Cahalith. Optimistic and hyperactive.
                Wen Wolf-Blooded:
                • Inspector Hau Chen - HKPF Inspector and general police-force informant and contact for the Wen and affiliated packs. Tell is unknown.
                • Zheng Fang - Full-time trusted gofer for the Wen. Immaculately dressed and presented but rumoured to be a very capable leg-breaker despite her appearance. Tell is rumoured to be very powerful for a Wolf-Blooded, possibly that she can summon spirit-wolves or turn into a spirit herself.
                The Hou – Kwun Tong

                Pure, Ivory Claws; their totem is Crimson and White Agony, a spirit of salt and pain. Known for their incredible ancestral and bloodline records, as well as their heavy involvement in Hong Kong politics and medical services. The Hou are seen as cruel, cold and clinical; few fates are worse than falling into the hands of a Hou torturer. The Hou claim to be the oldest and most legitimate of all the Five Great Packs, as unlike the other four the Hou already existed prior to 1899; Hou stories have it that they formed when the Punti migrated to Hong Kong in the 1200s, taking over the sacred mantle of an even older pack who were appointed by the Nine Dragons.
                The Peng – Hongkong Island

                Pure, mostly Ivory Claws; their totem is the Thousand Roaring Eyes and Mouths, a spirit of water and destruction. Known for their wealth and the role they play as financial agents for Pure across the world, their foreign contacts and also their martial traditions. The Peng claim that Hong Kong is actually the site on which Wolf was slain by its treacherous children. They are known for undertaking lavish, extravagant rituals offering sacrifices to the spirits and the waters in penance, to which werewolves of all stripes are invited. Despite their outwards expressions of wealth and openness, they're also said to be a hotbed of internal scheming due to the influence of rival spirit lords.
                The Tang – Hongkong Island

                Forsaken, mostly Bone Shadows and Storm Lords; their totem is the Pale Mandarin, a spirit of secrets, knowledge and fear. They are known for their information network and the dirt they're said to hold on every figure of note in Hong Kong, their knowledge of death and the Underworld, and their involvement in urban planning and development. Rumour has it that the Tang have successfully used occult geometries to create paths into the Deep Shadow. A few pieces of particularly bitter hearsay that refuse to die have it that the Tang take their marching orders from packs in Beijing.
                Tang nieces/nephews:
                • Makisig, Storm Lord Elodoth. A young Filipino from a relatively wealthy background, Makisig is tasked with keeping an eye on the younger parts of the population in Central & Western and Wan Chai. He's said to be involved in the city's music scene.
                The Liao – New Territories

                Forsaken, mostly Blood Talons; their totem is the Torn Banner, a spirit of change and violence. They are known for their fighting prowess, their trade and manufacture of spiritual goods (including fetishes and talens) and their connections to mainland China. The Liao are generally seen as the most traditionalist and conservative of the Five Great Packs, ironic given the nature of their totem and their own history; they were originally mostly Predator Kings, changing allegiance to the Forsaken via bloody infighting shortly after the Japanese occupation.



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                • #23
                  And responses to the original set of questions, for the Hong Kong setting:

                  Originally posted by LokiRavenSpeak View Post

                  How much tribes matter? Are the tribes their own political entities that exceed the boundaries of packs? Or are the packs the ultimate authority between themselves?
                  Tribes matter, but Lodges probably matter more; Hong Kong is a nexus for a lot of international stuff for Uratha worldwide, along tribal and Lodge lines. Movement of goods, intel, occult resources and people are all handled through the port and the financial centre here. It's a major hub for larger Lodges to run their operations through, so there's lots of Lodge members amongst the packs - but not many members of each Lodge. Many Lodges have a single adherent in Hong Kong.

                  [quote][*]How newly formed packs learn to deal with things that are common (Pure, spirits, Host, etc) but they haven't deal with before? Do they more experience packs help them? Only informs them? And do they do it for free or charge something? Or it is swim or sink?

                  So the Great Packs run the show. Each GP is a big, sprawling affair somewhat modeled on triads and other such secret societies, with an inner circle of 'aunts and uncles', then a lower rung of 'nephews and nieces'; the inner circle get to attend to more lofty and political matters while they spread the GP's day-to-day drudgework on the lower rung. Most normal packs pay allegiance to a Great Pack depending on a) where they are in HK and b) their faction, but some Pure packs pay homage to Forsaken GPs and vice versas. It is not the done thing for a GP to actively abuse or act against a pack of the other faction that it is the patron of; a Forsaken pack in Kwun Tong can expect the Pure Hou to still take its issues, information and requests seriously, although it can also expect to be the 'unfavoured child' compared to Pure packs, to generally get the last pick of the presents under the Christmas tree, and to be seen more as a pest than a protege.

                  What this means is that new packs often are formed under the auspices of the interest of the local Great Pack; the Great Pack has an expected role to play in helping a new pack stay on the straight and narrow. IF the pack fails and is destroyed due to its own incompetence, that doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the GP; but if it fails or goes badly sideways when the GP was specifically petitioned for help, people will begin to wonder if the Great Pack is really strong enough to offer protection or patronage to its other under-packs. There's a lot of two-way favour trading. a GP may well offer some aid to a pack that asks for it, but reciprocity will be expected.When the GP calls in its favours due, the lesser pack had damn well better be quick to fall in line, or it can't expect much help in the future. And word gets around...

                  [*]Do packs cooperate? What kind of threat would propel packs to cooperate? Something mayor like an Idigam or something more common like a Host or a pack of Pure?
                  Largely, a pack is expected to deal with its own shit on its own turf. Squabbles between packs are fine as long as they don't get out of hand; a pack that really wants to have a go at another pack needs to have a convincing case to present to the Great Packs to avoid the hefty social consequences of breaking customs (this was relevant in the game: The PCs pack were rivals of a Pure pack that wanted to attack them - but it couldn't just do so because it wanted to. Rather, the Pure had to try and fabricate a cassus belli that they could point to as the reason they were going to war. The local Forsaken GP would otherwise come down on them hard; even teh nearby Pure GP, which wanted the Pure pack to attacjk, wouldn't overtly offer any help unless the lesser pack sorted out a valid excuse for the coming conflict).

                  Against more significant threats, a GP would theoretically organise its lesser packs, or reach out to other GPs for mutual effort. The problem is... there haven't been major threats to the HK Great Packs and their status quo for decades, so they're slow to react to growing new threats and take a while to take major problems seriously. During play, the beginning of an invasion by the Cull was the first spark to actually get some of the GPs to pull their fingers out and realise the state of their comfy hunting ground; their lack of close attention to growing issues that were actually hitting multiple lesser packs is one of the reasons a normal human was able to pull off a massive scheme against the PC pack that resulted in the pack being driven out of their territory with violence and manipulation.

                  [*]How they handle justice and the Oath of the moon? Do packs enforce it against each other? Or do pack live and let live expecting that each pack police themselves? Is there any higher law than the Urathas can appeal to when pack vs pack conflict arises? What stops a pack from setting challenge heavy in their favor or just flat refuse and go to war? Or It is might-makes-right with direct confrontation?
                  Great Packs are supposed to adjudicate this sort of thing. Low-key problems between packs are kept amongst themselves, but the lesser packs often petition the greater to deal with more significant issues (although what is significant obviously varies depending on the viewpoint of the petitioner and patron). There's a lot of cultural inertia about The Way We Do Things Here, and an equal amount of cunning, ambitious Uratha trying to push the boundaries of what they can get away with.

                  There's some smaller, weirder packs that don't really play ball with the GPs or wider society; but they're small, and weird, and not generally accorded much importance. Then there's the Cull, who work on an entirely different level and are functionally less of a third faction and more of an outright enemy force, hostile to Pure, Forsaken and unaligned alike. And then there's the Silver Horizon Futures subsidiary of Cheiron, run by Wolf-Blooded and with Uratha shock-troopers, but that's another tangent entirely...

                  [*]If there is a protectorate, how loosely base it is? Is there ranks in them? Are there ceremonies and positions beyond the boundaries of the packs? How much pull has the protectorate on their packs? And what does it does with those who don't join but aren't Pure?
                  So, as above, no protectorate, five Great Packs, lots of ritual and formality and custom. Ranks are loose; there's the aunts and uncles, the nieces and nephews, and everyone else. Tribe is more important here - Hunger of the Tides gets a shitload of respect not just because he's a Tang Uncle but because he's the elder Bone Shadow of the city; he's not the 'leader' of the Tang but he's probably the most influential member of the Great Pack due to his Tribal and Lodge ties. Also he has a mouthful of horrible, jagged blades and shark teeth literally jammed into his maw so he's pretty intimidating to deal with, but that's gilding on his legend rather than the source of his reputation.

                  The Great Packs have a lot of soft influence on the lesser packs, even if it's sometimes grudging. The whole thing is expected to be at least partly two-ways; the GPs help the lesser packs, give them gifts, help connect lesser pack members to potential Lodges and lucrative opportunities, etc. Since the whole arrangement is cross-faction, including both Pure and Forsaken packs, it's developed a system for basically keeping violence either limited or to authorised, controlled outlets - packs that don't sign up to the thing don't get the benefits of patronage, nor the protection of the system, but on the other hand they also have the worst bits of turf, the least influence, and are probably not Forsaken or Pure so tend to just get overlooked by the 'proper society' of Uratha in the region.


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