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  • Not killing the pure

    hey so im wondering what solutions characters have found for dealing with the Pure if your not supposed too kill them. I realise this rule is often broken but i would like too see how people have managed too drive them off in any sort of long term fashion. Cutting off all four limbs and buying a few weeks before they regrow seems a poor long term solution, though might be unpleasent enough too drive a point home eventually?

  • #2
    If you read the section about the Oath of the Moon it gets into it in more detail than 'you're not supposed to do it.' Killing an enemy that's trying to kill you is generally fine, even if you initiate the fight. Sneaking up on a Pure who doesn't know you exist and stabbing him in the throat with a silver blade while they're asleep would be considered murder. You can have characters who think both are wrong, but that doesn't have much bearing beyond them. And keep in mind that it may send you out of whack, Harmony-wise, but it won't take your character sheet away. Unless you're a Bodhisattva your Harmony is supposed to fluctuate.

    So if the Pure are attacking you, trying to kill you, feel free to kill them unless you strongly believe otherwise. If they plead for mercy, maybe be merciful. The People will generally understand, if not, it's up to them to make something of it.

    Now cutting off a werewolf's limbs and leaving them is not respecting the low, or your prey, plus it suggests some sort of psychopathy and sadism. It might spread some fame of you as a mutilator but that can just as likely backfire.
    Last edited by nofather; 12-21-2017, 06:35 AM.

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    • #3
      Options that have come up in my game. These all might depend on individual STs going along with it.

      Deprogramming. Hug a neo-nazi. In game terms, social maneuver the guy to be less, well, evil and jerkish.
      Jail.
      Get an oath to stop their bad actions. Remember that Fire Tongues hate liars, so if there's an FT and they promise, its going to stick.
      Eat their totem spirit. That's a major source of their power.
      Maiming. Do it with silver, and there's no regenerating that.


      Anyways, I feel I should point out that this Harmony thing is something you're supposed to break. That's the thing with most Integrity equivalents. They're designed to go down, so you're going to be breaking them a lot. So, while the characters are told they're not supposed to break this, the players should fully expect it to happen. Just as the final solution.

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      • #4
        Depends on the nature of the dispute (a minor territory scuffle might mean just beating them off your land), the actors (honorable, respectful opponents might be able to come to an agreement), and the depths to which one is willing to sink (using Gifts and bindings to drive them into insane [Zehir?] trapped in the Shadow, offering them up as a Claimed host to an allied Spirit, or just binding them in a restrictive Spirit-enforced pact).


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • #5
          Probably nikink - as author of Forsaken by Rome where Pure and Tribes of Moon are in alliance (!!! ) in Rome - can speak how they can relate to one another in non-violet way. Which, to me, is weird, seeing how whole 1E gameline and 2E Forsaken corebook highlight how Pure and Tribes of Moon are hunting on each other...


          My stuff for Scion 2E, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
            Which, to me, is weird, seeing how whole 1E gameline and 2E Forsaken corebook highlight how Pure and Tribes of Moon are hunting on each other...
            The Holmes County, Ohio Hunting Ground has them living in the same area peacefully where a serious battle hasn't been fought between them in 100 years, and Acrozatarim has mentioned a few times that packs and protectorates containing both are a thing. It's not common, but it happens, like in his Hong Kong setting and the Great Packs.
            Last edited by nofather; 12-21-2017, 02:35 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              Probably nikink - as author of Forsaken by Rome where Pure and Tribes of Moon are in alliance (!!! ) in Rome - can speak how they can relate to one another in non-violet way. Which, to me, is weird, seeing how whole 1E gameline and 2E Forsaken corebook highlight how Pure and Tribes of Moon are hunting on each other...
              2E makes pretty clear that every location is different. The Forsaken and Pure can relate to each other in countless different ways. If you want to see how to do this, look beyond simple ‘hate each other’ concept and explore what the Tribes want. Taking Forsaken by Rome as an example - the Ivory Claws want bloodline purity, the Iron Masters want to try new concepts to see how they work. This is what brought two ‘enemy’ tribes together under Rome’s banner - because it offered something to each of them.

              As other examples - the Hunters in Darkness regard territory above all else. What if a pack finds Predator Kings working hard to restore primal beauty to a damaged area of the Hunters’ territory? Fire-Touched are religious zealots, but what of a group that has adopted an approach of extreme non-violence against Forsaken? After all, every Forsaken killed is a spirit this Fire-Touched pack failed to save.

              Moving beyond how and why the two groups may have non-violent relationships - as unusual as they may be - the OP’s question was more about how to deal with Pure without killing them. Apart from the obvious sustained application of non-lethal violence, 2E exphasises the role of the extended pack in werewolf life. Pure are no different. Hit them where it hurts the pack. Wield your pack’s influence to bring down the Ivory Claws’ financial institutions or organised crime families. Run a smear campaign against the Fire-Touched’s churches and congregations. Encourage minerals exploration companies to bring industrial development to the Predator Kings’ territories. As this is the CofD, everyone has encountered something that goes bump in the night - it won’t take much additional influence to convince these groups to take a few extra precautions against retribution.

              Just some ideas. Take or leave as you want.


              Writer. Developer. WoD | CofD | The Trinity Continuum 19 books and counting...

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              • #8
                In terms of dealing with the Pure without killing them, the obvious classic is repeatedly defeating them in battle, letting them flee with their tails between their legs while you seize their territory, destroy their influence and loot their resources, and keep doing this until they are either so cowed as to no longer be a threat, or are forced to move away entirely due to your campaign of aggression.

                ​Possibly the weirdest way I've actually used in one of my own games was the bizarre Pure-prison built by the previous generation of the pack that the PCs were a part of (the older werewolves died in a Pure attack at the beginning of the campaign, leaving the fledgeling Forsaken on their own and minus a lot of the pack's acquired lore and knowledge - plus unaware that the older generation were, er, ​all actually Bale Hounds).

                ​The PCs stumbled upon this more or less by chance. It was a reasonably nice house in a middle-class suburban estate in a big city in the UK. Something odd was going on, though; bird spirits were gathering a number of birds to roost atop the house then would, every so often, kill a few of the birds in the middle of the night. Another spirit of secrets would then possess the little girl who was the daughter of the couple that lived there, have her go out and gather the bird carcasses then bring them in.

                ​The PCs were understandably very weirded out when they discovered this, and initial interrogation of the spirits involved didn't help much ('I am forbidden to say' or just outright evasion of the Uratha). So they snuck in and discovered the building had a deep old bunker under it; nothing huge, must have been built during the war or the Cold War period, then the modern house rebuilt over it. The access to the shaft was properly sealed away and closed off - but the spirits involved in this bizarre tableau would open the locks and cranks to let the little girl toddle through with her armful of avian dead. She'd then toss the birds down the shaft, saunter back to bed, go to sleep and wake up none the wiser, the memories excised from her mind each time.

                ​Now, that shaft? Well, the old pack had done some, er, renovations back in the day. They'd reinforced the old bunker down there heavily, and then lined the shaft itself with silver. Then they chucked their Pure captive down there, rigged up the spirits with the bindings required to get them to play out the feeding process, and then occasionally come back to inquisit (or later, just torture), the Pure.

                ​By the time the PCs got there, the Pure down there was emaciated, mad and crippled; he'd long since stopped attempting to climb the shaft, which seared and burned his flesh on contact. In a slop of effluent and muck, his decade-long agony had formed a Wound down there.

                ​And the Pure himself, the captive that the Bale Hounds had built their torture-sanctuary for? The PCs quickly figured out he was a missing major Pure envoy from a while back, an influential go-between amongst the Pure packs who had vanished (and had been planning a brief diplomatic mission to the Forsaken of the city - a mission that would never have solved the violence between the factions, but that might have maintained a fragile peace for a while - and the failure of which ultimately instigated a brutal, destructive outright war).

                ​The PCs remained confused as to why the pack had not just killed​ the Pure, instead building this prison. It was much, much later in the campaign that they came to realise the extent to which their former elder pack-mates had been wildly misled from the Forsaken path by an insane, Maeljin-maddened lune. Even to the end, the Bale Hounds thought they were the good guys doing Luna's will​. And the People do not murder the People - so they didn't kill the Pure. What they did was far, far worse.



                - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

                ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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                • #9
                  Acrozatarim now tell why they haven't paid you to make a werewolf movie yet ?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
                    Acrozatarim now tell why they haven't paid you to make a werewolf movie yet ?
                    ​Well if you know any studio executives fishing for scripts for werewolf movies, let me know


                    - Chris Allen, Freelance Writer & Developer

                    ​Like my work? Feel like helping me stay supplied with tea? Check out my Patreon

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