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[2E] WtA Tribe as WtF Lodge – Silver Fangs

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  • [2E] WtA Tribe as WtF Lodge – Silver Fangs

    I give you Silver Fangs! I hope will find your ancestors and worship them - Bon Appetite, Werewolf fans! [ Group is based of Silver Fangs Tribe write up from W20 corebook. Ancestor-spirits are from Predators 1E book. It’s part of my wider project to bring WtA Tribes as WtF 2E Lodges. ]

    Silver Fangs
    Nobles, Houses of Sun and Moon, Boyars
    “Noblesse oblige.” Being noble is obligation - to country, to people - and first and foremost - to family. It’s most crucial thing to Silver Fangs, Lodge dedicated to ‘proper’ ruling of Uratha - by them and their kin. Heirs to great heroes and leaders, they pass they greatness till this day. They worship their ancestors – and want to always makes them proud of their descendants.

    They come from terrains of now Russia - but in that time they were all varying tribes, fighting with each other. Under guidance of Falcon, one group finally take control and initiated all chieftains and rulers to come to cult of their patron. Under their secret Totem, Silver Fangs remade human tribes in to kingdoms, and those in to empires. They spread all over the world, always making sure “their own” are real force in power. There were only one problem - ancestors.

    Original Fangs were coming from the lines started even in Pangea. Descendants of what would be once Ivory Claws Tribe under Silver Wolf, were meticulous to point to their great forefathers. But then came great schism - Lodge was divided on the matter of joining new heroes as noble ancestors. One side say only original predecessors were worthy of veneration and no new line could join their fold. Other group said there is place for new idols and their own posterity in Lodge. Two sides split, one joining Ivory Claws and making sure no new blood will pollute their kin. Second seek guidance under Winter Wolf in not showing weakness of short sightedness their once brothers shown. They become so called Houses of Sun and Moon - first for close relations with Helios and hatred for Forsaken “mongrels”. Second for joining Luna and her Tribes of Moon, especially Storm Lords. Rest is, like they say, just history.

    Still, both Houses follow the same practice – veneration of ancestors. Each Silver Fang can trace his linage as far as 10 generation back from memory – and those from House of Sun tell they can even to the start of Pangea. Every one Child of Falcon needs to make his ancestors proud of him. He needs to surpass his ancestors. Fangs are (in)famous of always mentioning their ancestors, in even most trivial matters. But to them – it’s matter of remembering those that come before them.

    Totem: Falcon
    Falcon is both most dedicated and one of most vain of avian spirits. It’s royal majesty is awestrucking, but also making you easy target for his hunt on you. His both literal and social predator, taking what he needs, when he needs.
    As Totem, Falcon actively support both Houses and their Tribes in Lodge. Pure and Forsaken war is not his concern, at least till his children do what he says. In his eyes, conflict of two groups is even better - pushed to the limits for other side, Silver Fangs are perfecting themselves in their role as leaders. Regardless before which Firstborn they answer.

    Notice: When mentioning Oath in Bonds section, use proper one for the House from which character is - House of Sun follows Oath of Urfarah ( see Pure book, p. 33 ) and House of Moon follows Oath of Moon ( as described in WtF 2E corebook ).

    Bonds
    Blessing: A Lodge member may lower number of Doors in any Social Maneuvering by one for every dot of Honor Renown he has above his adversary (-ies).
    Aspiration: To be always honorable ( i.e. following Oath ).
    Ban: A Lodge member cannot let a disrespectful character to Oath go away unpunished for his actions.


    The Sacred Hunt
    The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to sense any character who acted against the Oath in last moon cycle. Lodge adherent will see disrespectful as burning with solar blaze ( House of Sun ) or moonlight ( House of Moon ).
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-03-2018, 04:24 PM.


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  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    Bonds
    Blessing: A Lodge member may lower number of Doors by one in any Social Maneuvering if he will refer to the act of his ancestor. Adherent have constant +3 bonus to rolls on summoning or communicating with his ancestor-spirits.
    Aspiration: To defend memory of ancestors.
    Ban: A Lodge member cannot let anyone disrespect his ancestors or himself.

    The Sacred Hunt
    The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to sense ancestor-spirits, even when they normally would be hiding before his senses, like in Urging someone or using specific Numina or Manifestation. Ritual grants a +3 bonus to any Clash of Wills to discerning those spirits.
    Bonds
    Blessing: A Lodge member may lower a number of Doors in any Social Maneuvering by one for every dot of Honor Renown he has above his adversary (-ies).
    Aspiration: To be always honorable even when facing defeat.
    Ban: A Lodge member cannot let anyone to act disrespectfully against another individual, or let a disrespectful caracter go away unpunished for his actions.


    The Sacred Hunt
    The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to sense any character who acts against the Codes of Honor.


    I think that's more Silver Fangish, Falconwise.
    Last edited by Story Letter; 01-07-2018, 03:30 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
      I think that's more Silver Fangish, Falconwise.
      Do not see this on W20 write-up of them. I see no Honor mentioned as truly their thing. Maybe you can point other sources for this interpretation? Best with quotes, as beside W20, I do not have anything from WtA sourcebooks.


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      • #4
        From W20 page 373

        Falcon:

        Falcon is one of the noblest spirits, befitting of the Silver Fangs’ tribal totem.

        Individual Traits: Followers of Falcon gain two pointsof Honor Renown.


        Ban: Dishonor is worse than death to Falcon: none of Falcon’s children can ever lose permanent Honor Renown. If they do, they must either put right the wrong immediately, or perform a Rite of Contrition and further atone for their dishonor by hurling themselves at a powerful minion of the Wyrm.

        Falconwise.

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        • #5
          Honor being a relative thing to each individual, how exactly would that work? Also, what is their prey? It really should be another part of their write up, such as boons.

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          • #6
            If it's a spirit of honor and nobility, it would want you to hunt the honorable and noble. So high Honor Renown.

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            • #7
              From W20 page 373
              Falcon is one of the noblest spirits, befitting of the Silver Fangs’ tribal totem. His piercing eyes see deep into the hearts of his children, inspiring the valorous and rewarding the honorable. Falcon is known as a bringer of unity to the Silver Fangs and to the Garou as a whole, and he remains above rumors of in-breeding among his chosen tribe.

              It sound like Falcon want's only 'honorable' werewolves in his Lodge - and unity. Problem is that in the WtF interpretations Houses of Sun and Moon are opposing forces, literally on the millenia old inner-Lodge conflict.

              If I would want to look over the Sacred Prey here - it's seems like Falcon would want to hunt 'dishonorable'. To make a Houses more sense - I would probably made that Houses sticks to their Oaths interpretations - House of Sun is following 'dishonorable' in the light of Oath of Urfarah ( i.e. Oath of Wolf, see Pure book, p. 33 ) and House of Moon is hunting 'dishonorable' in the light of Oath of Moon, then.


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              • #8
                Re-written Bonds, based on Story Letters points.

                Notice: When mentioning Oath in Bonds section, use proper one for the House from which character is - House of Sun follows Oath of Urfarah ( see Pure book, p. 33 ) and House of Moon follows Oath of Moon ( as described in WtF 2E corebook ).

                Bonds
                Blessing: A Lodge member may lower number of Doors in any Social Maneuvering by one for every dot of Honor Renown he has above his adversary (-ies).
                Aspiration: To be always honorable ( i.e. following Oath ).
                Ban: A Lodge member cannot let a disrespectful character to Oath go away unpunished for his actions.


                The Sacred Hunt
                The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to sense any character who acted against the Oath in last moon cycle. Lodge adherent will see disrespectful as burning with solar blaze ( House of Sun ) or moonlight ( House of Moon ).
                Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-07-2018, 04:27 PM.


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                • #9
                  I appreciate the attempt to straddle the Forsaken - Pure divide, but I think this is probably more resonant as an Ivory Claw lodge. The Forsaken angle feels very shoe-horned in and doesn't jive as well with the very eurocentric vibe I'm getting from the write up. Perhaps this is just the result of converting a Tribe to a Lodge (I'm not familiar with WtA) but it just feels like it'd be better served with two Lodges each more loyal to their own theme, one that's Traditional Ivory Claw Racist Rhetoric + More than lip service to honor and the roots of nobility as warrior-protectors, and one that's more a more inclusively Bone Shadow + Emphasize on cultural heritage and ancestor spirits. Which one of those would be the Silver Fangs of MtA? .... I have no idea (like I said, I haven't played it.)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Knit-I-Fine View Post
                    I appreciate the attempt to straddle the Forsaken - Pure divide, but I think this is probably more resonant as an Ivory Claw lodge. The Forsaken angle feels very shoe-horned in and doesn't jive as well with the very eurocentric vibe I'm getting from the write up. Perhaps this is just the result of converting a Tribe to a Lodge (I'm not familiar with WtA) but it just feels like it'd be better served with two Lodges each more loyal to their own theme, one that's Traditional Ivory Claw Racist Rhetoric + More than lip service to honor and the roots of nobility as warrior-protectors, and one that's more a more inclusively Bone Shadow + Emphasize on cultural heritage and ancestor spirits. Which one of those would be the Silver Fangs of MtA? .... I have no idea (like I said, I haven't played it.)
                    The Silver Fangs actually have a lot of pieces that could go all over in a conversion, including houses that span Europe, Africa, and Asia (they aren't actually Russian in any way that matters as a tribe; that's the House of the Crescent Moon, specifically), Lodges of their own (Sun deals with human society, Moon deals with werewolf society and spiritual matters), and camps (Royalists, Renewalists, the Ivory Priesthood).

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                    • #11
                      So I went to take a look at WtA inspired by this thread and some people's replies. I couldn't find a big entry on the tribe (I assume because they either didn't do that in WtA 2e for some reason or just because I didn't spend enough time pouring over the book). What I did find was this.

                      Silver Fangs: The Most prestigious of the tribes, the Fangs have mated with the noblest humans and wolves for centuries. They are inbred, however, and have become tainted with sickness.
                      Now, I'm sure this blurb is not the be-all-end by any means, but it really sounds like if you're gonna convert this concept over to WtF, you're gonna want to make them a Lodge exclusively from the Ivory Claws.
                      Last edited by Knit-I-Fine; 01-08-2018, 03:08 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Knit-I-Fine View Post
                        I appreciate the attempt to straddle the Forsaken - Pure divide, but I think this is probably more resonant as an Ivory Claw lodge.
                        What does it make Ivory Claw only Lodge? I could see this in my first take, focused on ancestor-spirits, but I still described how it could lead to creation of Storm Lords faction in it. In second attempt from Bonds it would be much more about Honorable and not showing weakness, and by this - even more in line of Storm Lords philosophy. I really do not see a problem for this to be both Forsaken and Pure Lodge. But, in the end, if you really still want's it to be Ivory Claws only - just throw out Oath of Moon part and refocus Houses on hunting servants of Sun and Moon then.

                        Originally posted by Knit-I-Fine View Post
                        The Forsaken angle feels very shoe-horned in and doesn't jive as well with the very eurocentric vibe I'm getting from the write up.
                        How eurocentricism have anything to being Pure or Forsaken? I could even make point that being 'eurocentric' is cructial to both identity as Forsaken as it was in Balkans - in Vinca civilization ( see Sundered World Dark Era ) - that Forsaken-Pure conflict has started. So 'eurocentrism' only strenghtens both Pure and Forsaken interpretation of Lodge.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-08-2018, 03:57 AM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                          The Silver Fangs actually have a lot of pieces that could go all over in a conversion, including houses that span Europe, Africa, and Asia (they aren't actually Russian in any way that matters as a tribe; that's the House of the Crescent Moon, specifically), Lodges of their own (Sun deals with human society, Moon deals with werewolf society and spiritual matters), and camps (Royalists, Renewalists, the Ivory Priesthood).
                          Generally, I do not dwell more in to lore of each WtA Tribe than W20 corebook, as there conversions will be literally impossible to do in Lodge format - that is also focused on rather small numbers in organisation worldwide, compared to WtA Tribe idea that was obviously very much higher in numbers, as truly multicultural 'werewolf ethnicity'. But if you are interested in more detail take - you can make those inside this take of Lodge.

                          And my take on Lodge only started in Russia. They are now easily global Lodge, right now.
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-08-2018, 04:07 AM.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            What does it make Ivory Claw only Lodge? I could see this in my first take, focused on ancestor-spirits, but I still described how it could lead to creation of Storm Lords faction in it. In second attempt from Bonds it would be much more about Honorable and not showing weakness, and by this - even more in line of Storm Lords philosophy. I really do not see a problem for this to be both Forsaken and Pure Lodge. But, in the end, if you really still want's it to be Ivory Claws only - just throw out Oath of Moon part and refocus Houses on hunting servants of Sun and Moon then.
                            Okay, so the main problem is that the Forsaken and the Pure are unlikely to share a totem, so the split would likely escalate immediately into a small war until one side won the the others were thrown out. As for why it seems like and ivory Claw only Lodge....

                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            How eurocentricism have anything to being Pure or Forsaken?
                            It doesn't have anything to do with being Pure or Forsaken in the larger sense. It has to do with being an Ivory Claw. Ivory Claws are specifically coded as analogues to white supremacist and eugenics friendly groups. Or, if to be more blunt, they're basically magical werewolf nazis? This lodge is focused on nobility in the traditional, birthright, warrior-family sense and with very european roots. The Ivory Claws would absolutely resonate best with that, and once the Ivory Claws are in, everyone else is out.

                            BTW, I was actually looking up the history of the werewolf games, and it seems pretty clear the the Ivory Claws were meant to be the spiritual successors to the Silver Fangs anyways, just with all the sympathetic bits stripped out. So like, it's up to you, but if the boot fits.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Knit-I-Fine View Post
                              Okay, so the main problem is that the Forsaken and the Pure are unlikely to share a totem, so the split would likely escalate immediately into a small war until one side won the the others were thrown out. As for why it seems like and ivory Claw only Lodge....
                              And I'm told on and on again that Pure and Forsaken can live in semi-relative peace. Also, remember that most Spirits are neutral in Uratha conflict - especially, so 'general' spirits like The Falcon. They are not Firstborns to take sides. He does not need to concern himself with morality - his werewolf children just need to follow his rules - and those are based on Honor Renown, that is in both for Pure and Forsaken.

                              Originally posted by Knit-I-Fine View Post
                              It doesn't have anything to do with being Pure or Forsaken in the larger sense. It has to do with being an Ivory Claw. Ivory Claws are specifically coded as analogues to white supremacist and eugenics friendly groups. Or, if to be more blunt, they're basically magical werewolf nazis? This lodge is focused on nobility in the traditional, birthright, warrior-family sense and with very european roots. The Ivory Claws would absolutely resonate best with that, and once the Ivory Claws are in, everyone else is out.

                              BTW, I was actually looking up the history of the werewolf games, and it seems pretty clear the the Ivory Claws were meant to be the spiritual successors to the Silver Fangs anyways, just with all the sympathetic bits stripped out. So like, it's up to you, but if the boot fits.
                              Write your counter proposition if you like - I do not see reason to limit the Lodge only to Ivory Claws, here.


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